Advice on the Suez

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Advice on the Suez

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> AI Opponent Discussion >> Advice on the Suez

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Advice on the Suez - 4/11/2014 9:17:01 PM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

As I mentioned in another post the Med is now an Italian Lake in my game. Below you can see the situation in the Suez.

The CW are trying to hold as long as they can, but they're probably going to loose the Suez.

Here is one key thing I've learned in this game so far. I should have sent at least one Allied fighter here. It was a stalemate here until the Axis sent some TAC here. (You can't see it but the lend-lease Stuka is here under Italian control.) Once the TAC arrived and started flipping Allied units the Axis attacks became too strong. (Using 2d10 combat chart.) But what else should the Allies be doing to defend the Suez?

Other Questions:
Once the Suez falls what should the Axis be doing and what do they need to do it? (The Germans just launched a 42 Barbarossa in this same turn.)
The Allies obviously need to put something in Aden, but what else should the Allies be doing on this front after Suez falls?

Is it a good idea for the Allies to essentially ignore this front and throw everything they've got at Gibraltar, Spain, and France?

Attachment (1)

Post #: 1

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/11/2014 10:36:17 PM

WIF_Killzone

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline

Reinforce at all costs (well almost). Might as well bring the germs to battle somewhere, and it will annoy them when they to have to do combined actions to deal with the pesky brits at the cost of Russian land moves.

The Suez is strategically import for the brits, but Gibraltar more so. Hows Malta? get some fighters there (first to Gibraltar. then to Suez via a naval air action. You are still quite strong at Suez, and that river line looks defensible but hard to counter attack from later if you fall back behind it.

If the germs take it, I find they have more important concerns elsewhere beyond just keeping it locked up. Jerusalem looks tempting tho and then some oil but it takes an investment, and in some ways your playing into british hands by continually engaging them. Good question tho.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 2

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/11/2014 10:39:23 PM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Malta's gone. Between Axis control of sea zones, ground strikes, short bombardment, 2 MAR and a div the garrison there never stood a chance.

The Med is an Italian Lake.

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)

Post #: 3

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/11/2014 10:48:31 PM

WIF_Killzone

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline

Sweet. Russia, Russia, what's going on in Russia?

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 4

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 12:52:54 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Here's Southern Russia after the first turn of 1942 Barbarossa.

I've never done a 42 Barbarossa before. It feels like the Russians are Strong and The Germans don't seem to be that much stronger than in 41. But that may also be because there are so many german units in Spain, Morocco, and Egypt along with lots of Air and an actual German navy.

The Germans have only one Offensive Chit in hand at the moment.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)

Post #: 5

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 12:55:05 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Here's Northern Russia.

In the far North the Fins just took Murmansk.

Zhukov and some other units are currently in Persia trying to take it before Iraq gets aligned by the axis.

There are a handful of units in the Far East keeping an eye on the Japanese garrison there. Both sides want that theatre to remain quiet.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 6

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 12:56:58 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Here's Northern China.

Both sides are content with a Stalemate here at the moment, although the Communists may find it necessary to do something if the situation in the south gets any worse for the Chinese.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 7

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 12:59:34 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

China was in rough shape for a while. Only a heroic defense of Chihkiang gave them time to recover. (Bad weather really.)

The Japanese finally can maintain supply and may move towards Chungking, although they are pretty busy at sea so might not be able to manage it.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 8

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 1:09:18 AM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Here's a high level view of the Far East. Japan has managed to secure most of the main Resource area.

However it didn't go as smoothly as they had planned. US entry was doing well and the Oil Embargo came down before they were ready. Japan had 3 turns of poor production because of the Oil embargo and they were still re-position units out of china before they could attack. They also had to attack a full turn earlier than planned. So they started war short of divisions and actually have multiple carriers with no planes. (Mostly 1 and 2 class carriers, but still.) They also skimped on convoy production. With serious long term consequences.

I put MacArthur in the mountains in the Philipines and shipped in a bunch of divs to stack with him. That was annoying and took the Japanese a while to clear.

The shortage of divisions meant that the Japanese were not able to invade all of the small ports that share multiple sea zones and the US quickly slipped divs into many of those ports. (I'm using the unlimited breakdown rule.) So there are quite a few annoying allied divs in spots that could be a problem later.

The biggest problem is that the allies have been building subs to be the band. Every CW and US sub is on the map or spiral. Operating from India they are hitting the South China sea hard and convoy losses are heavy. Japanese production is only 16BPs and they are having to build 4 or 5 Convoys at least. They only have just enough CPs on map to maintain the convoys and the allied subs just keep coming.

So the Japanese have superiority over the US at the moment, but the first Essexes, and the first LBA Hellcats will be on map next turn. Then the two fleets will be at parity and Japanese production just isn't keeping up.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 9

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 3:55:40 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

Count the land factors for both sides in Russia. It looks to me like the USSR has more than the Axis. If that is true, then the USSR should think about going over to the offensive. The BPs per turn for each side should also favor the Allies.

Have you given any thought to the Allies using strategic bombing against Germany (and Italy if they can reach there)? Decimating the EuroAxis fighters will help the Soviets a lot.

I would also build up invasion forces in England - not to actually invade, but to force the Axis to devote some units to defending against a cross channel invasion.

Putting pressure on the Axis in the Med is going to be tough to do, but there are other ways for the Allies to be really annoying.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 4/12/2014 4:56:49 AM >

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 10

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 12:42:02 PM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

The first real Strat bomber just arrived in England this turn. Unfortunately, the CW poured all but one of their fighters into North Africa or ordered to re-establish supply to the troops there leaving none to protect the bombers in England and there are about 5 Axis fighters covering nearby factories. (Given that they've succeeded in controlling the sea zone beside Morocco it was a good choice.) That's also 5 less fighters in Russia.

The Marine and first Amphib are based in North Africa to threaten an invasion of Southern Spain, but multiple amphibs are on the spiral to arrive in the next few turns. (I learned a hard lesson in my last game about not having enough invasion capacity when the axis sinks your amphibs. That won't happen this time around.)

The question I have is what does it take to re-capture Gibraltar? It's got 2 white print MNT units and a MNT div in it with 2 forts. In adjacent hexes there are Axis ART units and other units protecting those hexes.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 11

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 2:46:46 PM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

Posts: 585
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

Retaking Gibraltar for the Allies requires a lot of the same kind of tactics that took it for the axis.

First, you'll need to get a toehold in either Portugal or Morocco. Move in some Tac. In the meantime, slip some submarines into the western med, knock out the convoy point that's keeping Gibraltar in supply. Knock out of supply, bomb until flipped, invade, probably with a bunch of marines. It's not easy at all, and to be honest, I don't remember the last time the allies actually re-took the rock.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 12

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 2:51:05 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

Good game going between the two threads.

My spin is don't worry too much about the Suez at this point in terms of trying to take it back before getting Gibraltar back.

Try to keep pressure on the Axis in Africa, but you also need to work up a good logistics plan to shove as many units into the UK as you can in order to build up the threat of a big invasion. The CW and US should try to get and keep a O-Chit handy in order to threaten the Axis with a huge super combined. The Axis has to guard all the coast line of northern and western France along with Spain. What is good for the Allies is control of the Bay of Biscay presents a huge area to try to protect. The Allies may consider a invasion of Portugal in order to threaten central Spain and come overland towards Gibraltar.

It would be easier to try to make the force to come after Gibraltar predominately a US force (O-chits will probably be involved), but that may not be possible. The CW should make available air and paratrooper assets as well as naval for bombardment support. If you are playing defensive bombardment, it may be a requirement to clear the Western Med of Axis naval units from posting Nav Air along the eastern coast of Spain.

Now, obviously all this would take a lot of time. I almost wonder if the Allies would be better off looking to push towards Germany and sort out the Med after the war is over. Certainly ground pressure towards Germany will help the Russians as the Axis will have to stand on the defensive there. The Germans may already be on the verge of going on the defensive there anyway.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 13

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 3:18:16 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Or just have the Allies invade Portugal

. The US is in the war now so there is no downside to doing it.

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 14

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 3:24:01 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

The CW still has a good force in Egypt. However, it needs FTR's to survive. If they don't get those, you lose an awful lot of units. As soon as Suez is taken, the Med becomes truly an Italian lake.

If you can't get the FTR's there, I would suggest that you withdraw the HQ from the place, to fight another day. It's useless if it gets no air cover.

Now, looking at things from the global war point of view, Steve has got it right. If the USSR has more combat factors that the Axis in Russia: attack and start the war of attrition there.

China looks not to bad to me. The main Japanese forces are behind the lines and it will take time for them to get to the frontline. Also, there is no visible threath towards Birma/India. This means that you might become into the position that the CW or the US can probably build a small force in Birma. This forces the Japanese to withdraw units out of China, because there is no defence visible on the map for a force there. And how nice it is that it is necessary to withdraw Wavell out of Egypt.

A small invasion force in the UK is also nice to have. The threath alone is enough to keep Axis troops in France and Spain...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 4/12/2014 4:25:00 PM >

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 15

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 3:58:59 PM

rowan8915

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline

In one Face to Face Game I ended up having to Carpet Bomb Gibralter to clear it enough to invade . Took almost a year of bombing to Clear the troops out.

< Message edited by rowan8915 -- 4/12/2014 5:14:36 PM >

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 16

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 4:06:21 PM

alexvand

Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

The Germans attacked Portugal already in order to prevent the allies getting an easy toehold.

The Axis has every hex from Gibraltar to Kiel zocced by at least one unit in order to increase the notionals. Although most of these units are crappy Italian Militia. There are even a couple of HQs in order to provide supply to the worst spots.

This comes at a cost. No units in Italy, but with gibraltar in Axis hands and the Suez threatened that's not a big deal. But it also means a few less units in Russia, which may turn out really badly.

So many Strategic decisions! One of the things I love about this game!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 17

RE: Advice on the Suez - 4/12/2014 4:42:00 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

Given this info, I would look to build up the heavy bomber force in the UK. This will serve two purposes initially:

First, it will draw fighters off from the East, which will help the Russians more.

Secondly, while the Allied bomber group build up is in progress, they can pick at the edges of the German fighter support to help keep the German production down some.

After the force is built up, perhaps some carpet bombing on a picket covering quite a bit of space combined with an invasion will allow the Allies to get ashore in force in France. The Axis dispositions are also vulnerable to paratroopers that would back up a landing, especially along the west coast of France.

The Axis appear to be loaded for bear in Spain to protect Gibraltar, but they have to be weak in other areas and the Allies should be able to exploit their command of the sea, then later, their command of the air, to good effect. I also agree that the Allies need to look at getting some fighters to the Suez area if possible. They can still remain a thorn in the side there for awhile yet.

(in reply to alexvand)

Post #: 18