Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even

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Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even

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Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 2/4/2014 11:33:43 PM

Agathosdaimon

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Playing panzer corps on ipad and up to bagration scenario after kursk - despite my marginal victories it seems to do little to alter the subsequent scenario. With the bagration mission though it is impossible to win - is that how it was designed - by turn 6 whats looks to be more then30 odd russian tank units with clouds of russian aircraft have reached every objective - there is no way to stop them wiping out everything i can field and doing so in that time. The russian tanks are impervious to all but the best german tanks and anti tank but with the cost of them i can field only around 2-3 which are soon completely surrounded.

How is one meant to win the bagration scenario as axis?

Post #: 1

RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 2/5/2014 3:10:30 AM

Agathosdaimon

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actually sorry, i am not saying a game shouldnt be hard - it should - i guess i am just wondering if it is actually possible to win this scenario or if it is designed so i lose it as the campaingn tends to carry on even when one loses

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)

Post #: 2

RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 2/15/2014 8:09:01 PM

dazoline II

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It wasn't called the destruction of army group center for no reason. Haven't played it but I imagine its super hard for a reason. Try and turtle on the final objective will as much force as you can muster, of course if it is 10:1 odds it probably won't matter what you do.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)

Post #: 3

RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 2/19/2014 1:46:57 AM

James Ward

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Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

Playing panzer corps on ipad and up to bagration scenario after kursk - despite my marginal victories it seems to do little to alter the subsequent scenario. With the bagration mission though it is impossible to win - is that how it was designed - by turn 6 whats looks to be more then30 odd russian tank units with clouds of russian aircraft have reached every objective - there is no way to stop them wiping out everything i can field and doing so in that time. The russian tanks are impervious to all but the best german tanks and anti tank but with the cost of them i can field only around 2-3 which are soon completely surrounded.

How is one meant to win the bagration scenario as axis?

You need the best tanks to win and a lot of them and a good prestige reserve doesn't hurt. Overstrength your troops all the wa, particularly tanks and fighters. I fight the Russian at the river line and don't let them advance. If you can hold the center you have a good shot.
Try to form a line of tanks, hopefully all Panther G and KT. A few Infantry in the towns and cover but you don't need a lot of them. As many top line fighters as you can muster. Artillery is useful but if you hve extra core units choose tanks over artillery. Concentrate on killing the JS tanks and Russian bombers. The JS do not have a lot of shots. Make them out and they are much easier to kill.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)

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RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 4/15/2014 12:06:56 PM

McGuba

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I tried to win this one in scenario mode, but I failed. :( I guess it can only be won in campaign game, when the player can purchase some more high-end equipment.

(in reply to James Ward)

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RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 4/15/2014 12:37:20 PM

James Ward

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From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McGuba

I tried to win this one in scenario mode, but I failed. :( I guess it can only be won in campaign game, when the player can purchase some more high-end equipment.

I believe you are correct. I read they are designed assuming you have a somewhat upgraded core. Bagration in particular is one you need all the strength you can muster.

(in reply to McGuba)

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RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 4/15/2014 12:52:07 PM

McGuba

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Which is not necessarily a problem. After all, historically the Germans were beaten big time here, by overwhelming Soviet forces. And the stand alone scenario gameplay simulates it well enough. However, when playing in campaign mode, it is easier to change history: normally the player is assumed to use and save resources more effectively then the German High Command did historically.

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 7

RE: Bagration is tooo hard - unplayably hard even - 8/28/2014 4:09:36 PM

ELHIJODELVIENTO

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I haven't played Bagration in Panzer Corps yet, but I remember well playing it many times in PG1. The standalone scenario, as McGuba points out, is a sure loss, as it was historically. Bagration needs to be that hard, because it's the beginning of the end itself. Before Bragration, Wehrmatch still standed in a solid front against Red Army, and after Bagration... Well, the soviets outrunned themselves and had to halt the offensive due to supply shortages and men exhaustation.

On campaing mode, it's possible to turn the tide, but it still requires a lot of experience. Only way to achieve DV is when you keep a varied and strong core from a long campaign (1941 or 1939 year of start). Overstrengthing and keeping Red Army where they start is key. Eliminate VVS and you will have the edge on the onslaught. Now, if you don't field enough prestige reserves, or you started a 1943 campaing, I'm affraid it's very likely you'll only achieve MV, at an enourmous effort on planning. When not having enough tanks and fighters, you have to fall back strategically, hitting hard and falling back at any critical point. There are places where you can hold the open with the mass of your core, and ambush with a Tiger II in a close pass (south of the starting front line f.e.). I remember PG1 had partisans in this scen, so I always placed my best infantry units backwards to wipe out partisans on turn 1, thus allowing free withdrawal to my core. I was usually able to hold Warsaw, and sometimes even Minsk. But cases where I achieved DV with a not ridiculous strong core, are few, very few. I focussed in not lossing core units, mostly sacrificing auxiliary untis when someone had to earn me one more turn for withdrawal. Because if you happen to fail at Batalon (likely to happen if rain stalls your drive), you then have to face the hardest scen: Berlin. In any case, the war against Soviet Union was the bloodiest and toughest of all wars germans fought. So it's fair that Bagration is that hard.

(in reply to McGuba)

Post #: 8