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Why no demo? - 4/25/2014 9:06:07 PM

Spookyashell

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The price of $65 has scared me away from this game, atleast until I've researched the game enough to know its worth the money.
Why is there no demo for a game of this price? Even AAA games are priced around $39.95, yet this game "without" graphics cost $65.
Naval war was 15 bucks. Grand strategy games like hearts of iron is 30 bucks.

Atleast release a demo so we can try it out and make an infored decision about a purchace. I love games like this but am not forking up �65 bucks "unseen".

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/25/2014 10:51:51 PM

NickD

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I'm pretty sure that Matrix games as a no-demo policy, sadly.

The game is well worth the money though if you liked the Harpoon series.

< Message edited by NickD -- 4/25/2014 11:52:07 PM >

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 12:01:00 AM

Spookyashell

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Never played Harpoon, but I enjoyed fleet commander back in the day and naval war artic circle.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 12:15:03 AM

dillonkbase

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I came from fleet command too... this game is all that and more. The money spent removed the cheesy graphics and has instead purchased a much more complete database, more realistic modeling, and honestly the best support I have ever seen for a "game". I suggest if you are interested in getting an understanding of the game you watch some videos, and if you post your hardware config somebody can give you an idea on how the game runs on a similar setup.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 12:33:44 AM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dillonkbase

I came from fleet command too... this game is all that and more. The money spent removed the cheesy graphics and has instead purchased a much more complete database, more realistic modeling, and honestly the best support I have ever seen for a "game". I suggest if you are interested in getting an understanding of the game you watch some videos, and if you post your hardware config somebody can give you an idea on how the game runs on a similar setup.

Yeah, I've watched several hours worth of youtube videos. It looks interesting, but I think the UI seemed very cluncky and hard to use. But a big db isn't that impressive anyone can type in info in a DB, even my mother. The research of all the planes on the other hand must have been some work. But I understand they removed the gfx, coz modeling all those planes must have taken ages if they were to do it.
I think my machine should run the game well. unless its a resource hog

Intel I5-2500k oc'ed to 4.5ghz (from default 3.3ghz, these cpu's clock like crazy on stock cooling and default voltage)
16GB DDR3-1600Mhz ram
nVidia GTX 570 1280MB

< Message edited by Spookyashell -- 4/26/2014 1:35:55 AM >

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 12:46:34 AM

renders

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It runs perfectly on my dual core e6600 so it must be pretty fluid on that machine. and i never regret the expense, command it's a giant step forward in games like fleet command, harpoon, etc

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 12:58:09 AM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: renders

It runs perfectly on my dual core e6600 so it must be pretty fluid on that machine. and i never regret the expense, command it's a giant step forward in games like fleet command, harpoon, etc

Have you played Naval war artic circle? I found that game extremly enjoyable. How does it compare to that? I know that in NWAC finding and identifying planes was easier than IRL. But it was a very fun game to play. Only issue I had with that game was no save game feature. God knows what they were thinking not adding that.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 4:03:31 AM

Casinn

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CMANO is much more detailed and deep. (and realistic)

NWAC was an attempt to modernize Fleet Command and in a simplified way it did that, but I still prefer Fleet Command to it, and still play that some for kicks. Fleet Command is still on Steam (wait for a sale) and runs fine for me, just have to alt-tab once to clear the old startup video that Windows 7/8 doesn't like.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 4:27:30 AM

Spookyashell

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I own fleet command on steam from a package with FC, dangerous waters, sub commander and a couple of others. But the flickering is horrible. Have tried the suggested solutions, but no help.

I liked NWAC more than FC. But I realise the realism isn't the best. But lots of fun to play and make missions in. Oh btw, Paradox has released the source code for NWAC, I was hoping someone would do something with it. Improve it, make add ons and such.

I would be all over it if I was a good programmer.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?728920-Naval-War-Arctic-Circle-Source-Code!

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 6:14:16 AM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell
Yeah, I've watched several hours worth of youtube videos. It looks interesting, but I think the UI seemed very cluncky and hard to use.

Please explain. What aspects of the UI did you find hard to use?

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 6:37:25 AM

dillonkbase

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" Oh btw, Paradox has released the source code for NWAC, I was hoping someone would do something with it. Improve it, make add ons and such."

Actually, some true fans of the naval warfare sim decided to take their programing experience and passion for the games they had played, and do just that. They have gone far beyond making add ons and such, they have created a whole new game with new levels of detail, frequent updates, smarter more capable AI and mission planning, a rather complete database, and more. The game is called COMMAND, and it costs more than those old games because it is better. You can keep hoping to get free lunch, its your call.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 1:27:03 PM

AlmightyTallest

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If you look at the price of some books like Jane's Radar and Electronic warfare Systems, or Jane's Land Based Air Defence.

http://www.amazon.com/Janes-Land-Based-Land-Based-Defense/dp/0710629508

http://www.amazon.com/Janes-Radar-Warfare-Electronic-Systems/dp/0710629672

And start to look at Command as a real time simulator of these very systems, with info similar to what is presented in the Jane's books, then the price of admission is quite a bargain.

Looking through the database alone, you might be interested to see what some of these subsystems do on an aircraft or ship, in which case for more info Google would be your friend, but at least now you know that you can do a search for an AN/ALQ-227 communications countermeasures system and see what it's about.

In Command, watching the AN/ALQ-227 ruin the communications links while the EA-18G's ALQ-99's jam other radar wavelengths helps you to visualize how many of these systems work together with other platforms.

I might have hesitated if we were talking about version 1.01 or 1.02 of Command, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to purchase and recommend 1.03 especially after seeing the support for this sim.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 2:24:46 PM

Vici Supreme

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Haha, Spooky. You played NWAC? Thought I was the only one who played it.^^

< Message edited by Supreme 2.0 -- 4/26/2014 3:25:10 PM >

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 5:58:21 PM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell
Yeah, I've watched several hours worth of youtube videos. It looks interesting, but I think the UI seemed very cluncky and hard to use.

Please explain. What aspects of the UI did you find hard to use?

dropdown menus for orders and such. Would have been better if you could right click on things to bring up order menus on screen. Would have liked right clicking for move orders instead of mark the plane, go up to a dropdown menu, choose move order and then click. But I've only seen this on videos so I might be missing something. It just looked really cluncky from what I've seen. Might be a totally different feeling hands on.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 6:00:24 PM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Supreme 2.0

Haha, Spooky. You played NWAC? Thought I was the only one who played it.^^

Oh yeah. According to steam I've played 1287 hours of it, holy h... , I need to get a life

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 6:06:40 PM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dillonkbase

" Oh btw, Paradox has released the source code for NWAC, I was hoping someone would do something with it. Improve it, make add ons and such."

Actually, some true fans of the naval warfare sim decided to take their programing experience and passion for the games they had played, and do just that. They have gone far beyond making add ons and such, they have created a whole new game with new levels of detail, frequent updates, smarter more capable AI and mission planning, a rather complete database, and more. The game is called COMMAND, and it costs more than those old games because it is better. You can keep hoping to get free lunch, its your call.

I'm not hoping for a free lunch. I've payed for NWAC, but they were never able to finish it since an important developer got seriously ill and can't work anymore at all. And some things he was the only one in Turbo tape games with the knowhow and skills to do. So I'm just hoping some fans would finish it.

Also, you can never have too many games like this on the market for varaity. I loved NWAC so is it wrong of me to hope someone "finish" it?

I will most probably buy Command, I would say its a 95% chance. I've just been burned so many times before on games that looked great from screenshots and videos, but turned out crap when I bought them. So I'm more careful now. I like to try demos before I buy. I spend way too much money on videogames buying on average 5-6 a month.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 8:55:50 PM

ComDev

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell
Yeah, I've watched several hours worth of youtube videos. It looks interesting, but I think the UI seemed very cluncky and hard to use.

Please explain. What aspects of the UI did you find hard to use?

dropdown menus for orders and such. Would have been better if you could right click on things to bring up order menus on screen. Would have liked right clicking for move orders instead of mark the plane, go up to a dropdown menu, choose move order and then click. But I've only seen this on videos so I might be missing something. It just looked really cluncky from what I've seen. Might be a totally different feeling hands on.

Hmm there's a ton of hotkeys...

To plot a course for one or more units press F3, click where you want to have your waypoints, and press F3 again when done.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 8:58:15 PM

ComDev

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...maybe we should make an 'Advanced Users Guide' video with all these neat tricks

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/26/2014 9:03:29 PM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell
dropdown menus for orders and such. Would have been better if you could right click on things to bring up order menus on screen. Would have liked right clicking for move orders instead of mark the plane, go up to a dropdown menu, choose move order and then click. But I've only seen this on videos so I might be missing something. It just looked really cluncky from what I've seen. Might be a totally different feeling hands on.

Dropdown menus are actually used very little, we added them only because there was a request for them to be there _in addition_ to the more usual methods of control. The primary way to issue orders to a unit is to either right-click on it, in which case you get a rich context menu with available commands, or use the F1-F10 function keys (F1 for attack, F2 for throttle & altitude, F3 for plotting a course etc.)

Have a look at the printer-friendly version of the manual, this should help you understand better the numerous options for controlling forces in Command: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3418599

And on top of that there's a lot of stuff we've added since the original release and we have to make a proper "Manual addendum" section for... <sighs>.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 12:41:06 AM

Casinn

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If you played NWAC that much, you obviously like naval/air sorts of gaming, you will definitely get your moneys worth out of Command.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 1:26:27 AM

Spookyashell

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Sunburn, I've been watching vids of the editor now. Why is the same missile listed many times with 2/2 and 4/4? So if I wanted to add 400 sparrows to a airport storage, I would have to add the 4/4 100 times? Why isn't the missile just listed once and you type in 400 to add 400 of them? Having 100 entries of each weapon clogs up the ammo list and you lose overview of what you have at a base.
And what does 0/10000 mean , can you transport missiles from one base to another with free capacity?

Unless I have misunderstood something it would take forever just to add ammo to airports while building a scenario.

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 1:27:43 AM

Spookyashell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casinn

If you played NWAC that much, you obviously like naval/air sorts of gaming, you will definitely get your moneys worth out of Command.

Yeah, I've pretty much decided to buy it. Just have to wait til the 1st when I get my paycheck

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 1:42:26 AM

Sakai007

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A little late to the game I think, but.... :D

I've played Harpoon in various forms for 14 years or so, loved Fleet Command back in the day, tested NWAC and CMANO.... Hands down my personal favorite is CMANO.

In my simplistic mind, it's like Harpoon but far easier to get into. Yes, basic game play is easy in Harpoon, but assigning missions, emcon changes, etc. was beyond my depth. CMANO had me using every command at my disposal from the start, and it just keeps on getting better.

Just my $0.02 having played all the games in question at length, lol, naval war junkie...

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 4:15:10 AM

ComDev

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell

Sunburn, I've been watching vids of the editor now. Why is the same missile listed many times with 2/2 and 4/4? So if I wanted to add 400 sparrows to a airport storage, I would have to add the 4/4 100 times? Why isn't the missile just listed once and you type in 400 to add 400 of them? Having 100 entries of each weapon clogs up the ammo list and you lose overview of what you have at a base.
And what does 0/10000 mean , can you transport missiles from one base to another with free capacity?

Unless I have misunderstood something it would take forever just to add ammo to airports while building a scenario.

To add 400 Sparrows (which is an awful lot btw) you'd add the 0/10000 weapon record and change the qty to 400. You can filter weapons by the types that the base's planes carry, which eases things considerably. So you'd only see Sparrows, Winders and low-drags, and no AS-4s or Roland SAMs. There's also the Scenario Configuration Files functionality that allows you to script ammo configurations, along with sensor and comm configuration.

So it takes a few clicks to add a handful weapons, and 2-3 mins to add a TON of weapons to an air base.

At some point, Command's complexity catches up with us and forces us to do a little manual labour hehe. No way around it if we want things realistic.

Oh wait!

This is Command: The-Customizable-To-Death simulator. So if you want to leave out air logistics, just turn it off and your planes have unlimited ordnance!

< Message edited by emsoy -- 4/27/2014 5:32:29 AM >

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RE: Why no demo? - 4/27/2014 8:57:15 AM

Stevechase

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This is a niche game so the price will be higher than normal. But when a game with limited to no wow graphics and such a high price wins the awards, accolades, and a more than satisfied fan base that this simulation has acquired since its release, it is solid indication that the investment is worth it to anyone interested in naval and air ops simulation. Think about it. And welcome to Command.

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