Rallying

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Rallying - 3/16/2001 2:04:00 AM

Cona

Posts: 137
Joined: 9/9/2000
From: Penco, Chile
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How is that sometimes when you rally an unit using the "R" key once it rallies just once and sometimes it rallies until fail or suppresion gets below 2 ? Saludos a todos, Cona.

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- 3/16/2001 3:00:00 AM

Bonzo

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From: Peace River, AB, Canada
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The Manual (v4.1) pages 69,70. The ones that rally once (or not at all) could be formation leaders or units that are out of contact with their formation leaders.

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- 3/16/2001 4:01:00 AM

Cona

Posts: 137
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From: Penco, Chile
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Bonzo: The ones that rally once (or not at all) could be formation leaders or units that are out of contact with their formation leaders.

Thanks Bonzo, but it's not the case. This units could be in contact or not. What i mean is that i pressed the key "R" once but sometimes the unit rallies several times at once without you pressing the key several times. The normal case is that you press the "R" key and the unit rally once to half their suppression level. Sometimes you press that key once but the unit keeps rallying until rally fails or suppression level reachs 1. And my keyboard it's Ok. No stuck key. Saludos a todos, Cona.

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- 3/16/2001 4:24:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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I have also noticed the effect that sometimes a unit has a supression of say 10. I hit the R key once and it drops to 1. Sometimes I hit the R key and there is no action. No statement saying that the leader can not rally, just nothing.

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- 3/16/2001 4:36:00 AM

Charles2222

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Larry Holt: I'm not too precise on this, but the reason that no rally is attmepted sometimes, is because it's used up it's rally points for the turn, if you will. While there may not be any 'rally points' per se I believe it works off the principle of once a unit fails to rally, it no longer will for that turn. As far as a single rally knocking the 10 suppression to 1, it does so because your display rate must be so fast that you do not notice that the squad itself isn't the only one reacting to the rally command. In order to get down to 1, there had to have been 3 successful attempts to rally off that one command keyed, which, BTW, could be that single squad succeeding three times in a row. If you had a 99 suppression on a squad and there were enough eligible squads around, and enough of them combined in failures and successes, it could be a noticeable delay.

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- 3/16/2001 6:31:00 AM

ZinZan

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Joined: 12/9/2000
From: Leicester, England
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You're not crazy!! I have seen this too! And to clarify somewhat it definetely is not a refresh rate or message delay problem as i have seen it happen to adjacent units, widely seperated units, trucks, cmd units, support units and others. It always seems to happen at least once in every game. It does not seem to be harmful just unusual., Glad someone has seen this I was starting to think I was insane.

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- 3/16/2001 7:42:00 AM

Anthony_MatrixForum

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Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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I almost always get multiple rallys happening on a single key press. Could it be that the organic unit leader will continue to attempt rallies until they either reach supressiuon=1 or fail ?? At that point, a another press of the 'r' key may be using Hq (A0,B0...) to continue on, at one rally attempt per press ???? I will try this out and see Anthony

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- 3/16/2001 10:08:00 AM

McGib

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From: Ontario Canada
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When I play I use my mouse, so when I click on the rally button with the left mouse key I get one rally attempt, when I click the right mouse key the unit rally's continiously until it fails. Also I've noticed that when you push the R button and the unit fails and you see the message "Sgt SoandSo fails" you then click the rally button with the mouse the individual unit will attempt to rally, THEN it moves to the next highest formation leader and so on until all leaders within radius try and fail or the affected unit rally's to 1 or 0.

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- 3/16/2001 11:17:00 AM

MindSpy

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From: Canada
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quote:

Originally posted by Cona: How is that sometimes when you rally an unit using the "R" key once it rallies just once and sometimes it rallies until fail or suppresion gets below 2 ? Saludos a todos, Cona.

MINDSPY Actually it is much like moving all your units at once or one at a time. So you are free to rally a unit once or all the way to failure. What's the difference or advantage? Simple. every time i attempt to rally I get a deduction from my unit's Rally value. If I fail to rally on any attempt the value of my Rally immediately goes to zero. This means my unit cannot attempt to rally itself anymore nor can it rally any other unit close by. So the advantgae is if I rally my Leaders first. Then I have a larger base of units from which to rally other units down the chain of command. It takes time to build up the skill since the units must be checked with a right click or the mouse to verify the value of thier Rally number. Now focus on the units that you must have Rally. A leader must be within a minimum range to affect the rally of a unit usually five hexes. So I can now bring leaders to within range of that unit I must have rally. I then verify to see who has the largest rally number. If my leader unit has been used to rally itself it will have a depleted rally value and so I would caution against a rally to Failure. instead that leader should only be used for single rally on a unit. Now when you are rallying a unit you click on it and then click on R. The leader only needs to be within range not that you will be clicking on the leader itself! Now suppose that after one rally attempt (which reduces a units suppression by half everytime it is successful) I check the nearest leader and find that it's rally value is now lower than another leader's value then I can now either switch to another unit so this nearby leader's Rally is consumed or I can now move this leader away and bring a different leader closer that has a higher rally value. If he is particularly hot I could use this leaders Rally value to bring a unit to Rally failure in one click and that is the most a unit will rally. Now some people don't like to do complete rallies Instead they prefer to do individual rallies. Now there is merit in either point of view. If you want lots of random number rolls that is many rallies done individually then you will still get the same results as one rally where the unit is taken to it's maximum good order state in one random roll. Statistically there is no difference However common experience sets off warning bells in our heads telling us that if a unit is to be rallied in one shot and it fails then that is it. so if you get one bad roll then you really feel it where as with individual rallies you feel that there are many small incremental improvements and then the failures which end the rally attempts. If you unit is a good bet to rally it does not matter which method you use statistically speaking but our own gut reactions do play a role and hence many mouse clicks with both good and bad results CERTAINLY feels better than one roll and winner takes all! MINDSPY

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- 3/17/2001 2:25:00 AM

Cona

Posts: 137
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From: Penco, Chile
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quote:

Originally posted by MindSpy: MINDSPY Actually it is much like moving all your units at once or one at a time. So you are free to rally a unit once or all the way to failure.

Ok, but ... how this works ? I need to know when i'll get several rallies in a row even if i want to rally my unit just one time. When my units are in a firefight i let their supression level reach 10 before rallying because i've found that the odds for a sucessfull rally are better the bigger the suppression level putting aside experience and morale (i may be wrong !). But if the unit rallies twice or more times when i asked for halving their suppression most of the time i'll get a fail. So ... ? Saludos a todos, Cona.

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"War is much too serious to be entrusted to the military." - Tallyrand

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- 3/17/2001 2:34:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22: Larry Holt: I'm not too precise on this, but the reason that no rally is attmepted sometimes, is because it's used up it's rally points for the turn, if you will. While there may not be any 'rally points' per se I believe it works off the principle of once a unit fails to rally, it no longer will for that turn.

I do understand that. What I am saying is that sometimes when no rally is available I get a messge saying so and so can not rally while sometimes nothing happens.

quote:

As far as a single rally knocking the 10 suppression to 1, it does so because your display rate must be so fast that you do not notice that the squad itself isn't the only one reacting to the rally command. In order to get down to 1, there had to have been 3 successful attempts to rally off that one command keyed, which, BTW, could be that single squad succeeding three times in a row. ...

If there were multiple rallys, I should see multiple messages in the message box but I only see one.

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- 3/17/2001 3:54:00 AM

Charles2222

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Larry Holt:

quote:

If there were multiple rallys, I should see multiple messages in the message box but I only see one.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that statement. I wonder if you're stating that it 'should' show a message for each as you would prefer it that way, or that the game is made to function that way and it does not. For me, I haven't studied rallies all that closely, but it seems to me that what MIGHT be happening, is that if the same unit rallies successfully more than once in a row, that may be where the messages aren't showing up. It may be comsidered a fluke or bug, in a sense, but I've never seen a rally just jump from 10 to 1, without it being obvious to me that more checks were going on, be it displayed or not (perhaps the mouse pointer flickers for each attempt I'm not sure how I always know there are multiple rallies going on). Cona: I don't think there's a difference between the chances of rally success based on the suppression level. I say that, but it seems to me that rallies occur much more frequently on lower suppression levels, but I use it judiciously anyway. This is a total guess on my part, but I suspect that the unit, itself, rallying, depends not the least bit on it's suppression level, but I suspect that 'other' units being able to assist depend very heavily on 'their' suppression levels. It would be nice to know for sure. I do recall any earlier version of this sort of game, which actually had a pool of rally orders you could view, so that you could save them up for really critical times. From what I've seen with this game, there's no pool, nor any sense in at least not trying a rally on every turn for the suppressed units, no matter how low it is. The only question would be whether you use the minimum of one attempt, before you move or fire with it, or afterwards. You might want to check the manual about rallying.

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