o4r
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Joined: 1/31/2003
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]Its size also makes it much more difficult to hit. I've wasted many a round firing at those size 2 targets without hitting. If you can't hit them, it doesn't matter what your penetration value is. :mad:
222s will also take AA shots at airstrikes fairly regularly. I'm not sure if the 231s do that. ('cause of the closed top, maybe?) [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all, I apologise for the misleading information on the fuel. Since both 222 and 231 both has the same range of about 300 but later armour car like 234 (which is also 231 but it is 231 (8 rad)) was the one that really make the difference (222 range actually is 310). Since 234 has a range of about 900 km, it is more suitable for Russian campaign. I will now clarify the whole. I hope you all take the time to read and ask question later. I summarised it as accurate as possible and simpified some issue.
Ok to answer to all the question about Sd KfZ 231 (6 rad), 231 (8 rad) and 222
Facts is that 231 (6 rad) was development and ordered sometime in 1929 and the first roll out was in 1932 and the production stop at 1937. After German marches into Austria, Czechoslovakia, French and Poland was actually withdrawn from frontline service, sometime in 1940 because of their limited mobility iff the road.
There is only about 123 231 (6 rad) / 232 (6 rad), 28 263 (6 rad) produced. Pls remember the engine, they are all equip either with a Bussing-NAG G or Daimler-Benz MO09 or Magirus s88.
222 roll out from factory in 1936 and production stop sometime in 1943 with about 989 build. So 222 is actually a newer vehicle after all. However, they served in all campaign on all fronts until the end of the war. There are about 7 series in this design and its stop production in mid 1943 due to the fact its turret was too small for future development and during Russian campaign with their range only 310 km is not idealistic at all. 222 has a Horch 3.5 or 3.8 engine. That end 222.
In 1936, since the 231 (6 rad) was fair not very well in mobility for off road, an variant was developed and known as Vs Kfz 623/624. Now the confusing part is coming........ watchout.....
It designation was then changed to Sd Kfz 233 and 234 in mid 1937, then to Sd Kfz 231 and 232 (8 rad) in 1939. The variant 231 was only produced to May 1942 and 232 stop in Sept 1942.
, so it is actually a 231 (6 rad) now added additional wheel of 2 and the engine is switch from the front to the back with a new armour body with additional added to front from 8 in 1940 to 30 in 1942.
Overall a totla of 600 was produced from 1936 to Sept 1943. it is still carrying a MG and a main gun of 2 cm Kwk 30 or 38 and it operation range is still remind as around 300 due to that fact it is still using the same engine as 231 (6 rad). Sometime special here is that 231/232 (8 rad) producded by Bussing-NAG has steering featured to drive for all eight road wheel. These 231/232 (8 rad) was normally deployed not in entire platoon but usually mix or split up with smaller recon vehicle for fire support.
End of Part one to 231/232 (8 rad).
Start of Part two, son of 231/232 (8 rad)
After cease production of 231/232 (rad) in May and Sept 1942 respectively, a new variant was produced, it is called 234. Baiscally it is still the same body with the 30 mm front armour, the same weapon configuration and same type of engine so the range still reminds at 300.
In Sept 1943, a new variant of 231 (8 rad) appear, it is known as Sd Kfz 234/2 or Puma. it is basically a 8 wheel armour car similar to 231. However the armour of 30 mm is no more bolted to the 231 body but it is actually 30 mm armour plated chassis and the most important of all, its engine is now called Tatar 103, a diesel engine boosting it range to 900 km! An initial order of 500 to be armed with 5 cm KwK 39/1 and an MG coaxial. But was later cut back to 100 and end the production at 101. The rest of the vehicle will be armed with 2cm and 7.5 cm gun.
The version with a 7.5 cm Kwk51 L/24 is called 234/3 (produced from June to Dec 1944)
The version with 7.5 cm Kwk40 L/46 us called 234/4 (produced from Ded 1944 to March 1945)
The version of 2cm verision is called 234/1 (produced from June 1944 to 1945) This version of 2 cm had the ability like 222 but not near vertically like 222. It gun has an elevation o -4 deg to +70 deg. Which is also fit for AA ability but its ammunition is about 480 rounds compare to only 180 carried by 222 version.
The armour remains more ever in the range of 30 mm but variant 234/1, 234/3 and 234/4 is more slope than 234/2.
So what happen to 231 (8 rad).....
From Dec 1942 to 1943, about a 100 of Sd Kfz 233 was developed and about 10 231 (8 rad) was acutally converted to this variant. They are basically the 231 altered with the turret removed and the superstructure open and the right side of the superstructure cut away to mount a 7.5 cm StuK 37 L/24. It gun is fixed and can only tranverse left and right of only 12 deg. The engine remain the same as the 231 (6 rad) and as such only about 300 km.
How about variant of Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad) version of Sd Kfz 263 mentioned above. It is actually developed into a heavy cross country radio car armed with only a MG. With the range of 300 km remain, its top speed is faster than 222 with a top speed of 100 km/h.
So looking at 222 and 231 which is better. In short term wise, 222 is good and small but its body is too small for anything bigger than a 2cm gun and it operation range remain at 300 Km radius through out the war.
But 231 with its larger body latter become so many variant.
Looking at all this, you tell me which is better. You like latter variant of 231 like 234/2 puma with a 5cm gun or 234/4 with a 7.5 cm L/46 gun or do you still want a little 222 with a 2cm gun which has the ability to engage aircraft with its 2cm gun. But compare to 234/1 which also carrying a 2cm gun with a larger ammo capacity of 480 rounds! comparing to only what a 222 can carry, a mere 180 rounds.
Comparing 222 and 231 is like comparing Pz III and Pz IV. Alot of ppl purchase PzIII in the early camaign due to the fact of its 3 MG and it is good against infantry. The 37 cm gun has slight better penetrate than eariler version of Pz IV which only has a single MG.
And from Pz IIIg to h onwards as compare to Pz IV e, they still like Pz III.
But from Pz IV f2 onwards. who want a Pz III j or M/N version with a short 7.5 cm.
Pz III suffers the same problem as 222. It turret is too small. If somebody first design the Pz III with a 5 cm gun and ability to carry a 7.5 gun L/46, rather than a 3.7 cm and an ability to 5 cm. The Pz III will is a winner.
Now about the question of why 222 can used against air and 231 cant
the answer is 222 uses a 2cm KwK30 or 38 L/55 with an elevation of -4 deg to + 87 deg, giving it the ability to point up high.
But 231 (6 rad) is normally using a 2cm KwK30 L/55 with an elevation of only -12 deg to +20 deg. 231 (6 rad) "son" the Sd Kfz 234/1 has the same ability to engage aircraft and a larger ammo capacity.
I think this will answer to the main question. There are other factor too like the optical sight for the gun and ability to carry what radio. For that if you want to know, then will I reply.
Thank You.
Now what the hell is my old id and password....... I forgot and stuck with this name and a recurit .... :(
HELP ME! I want my old id back.... :(
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