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lingering supply bugs - 5/9/2014 8:01:45 AM

joshuamnave

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Joined: 1/8/2014
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Looks like the beta patch killed off most of the supply bugs, but there are a few minor bugs lingering. I have a save file for one of them, and will add other saves if I remember the next time I run across them.

1) Notional unit factors (save attached) - Notional units are now correctly in supply during invasion combat, and their factors are correctly calculated during both the invasion phase and the combat resolution phase. However, they are still being calculated incorrectly during the offensive naval bombardment phase, following the allocation of shore bombardment. This leads the program to incorrectly show the notional factor as 0 following shore bombardment in some cases. It then reverts to the correct total for the actual combat resolution. The problem is that ground support comes between these two phases, and the player can mistakenly think no ground support needs to be allocated since the combat is an auto win. The save game provided is at the start of the bombardment phase, and the notional adjacent to Aden is incorrectly showing as 0 factors (usually it doesn't revert to 0 until after shore bombardment has been allocated, but apparently loading a save in this phase also triggers the bad calculation). If you play it out, the notional will have 2 factors during combat resolution.

2) Supply after undoing an HQ move - If moving an HQ puts previously OOS units in supply, then you undo the HQ move, the units continue to show as being in supply.

3) In some situations, enemy unit supply status does not change during friendly moves that cut the enemy's supply line. This can also happen during combat if an advance after combat cuts supply to a disorganized unit, allowing that unit to incorrectly remain in supply during follow on attacks.

4) The bad lag time for movement is back following the entry of Russia into the war. Although not as bad as it was the last time this happened, it's rapidly becoming game breaking for me again.

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RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/9/2014 4:30:12 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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Thanks, Zartacla.
1) looks like a minor fix based on the provided gamesave.
2) was catched also by one of us in the mean time, and I think already tackled.
3) a savegame will be important. I have not seen it myself until now - could you be on the lookout for that one please?
4) I have experienced occasional increased lag time in Russia and China, but still acceptable. In my case that happens e.g. in the first impulse, when there are plenty of sea area's not blocked and Axis controls African colonies. Supply calculations using sea supply grow exponentially in that case. I have provided gamesaves already, but if you have a gamesave where you have to wait more than 8 seconds please post it as well.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 2

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/14/2014 11:52:11 AM

AxelNL

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Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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Small update. Points 1 and 2 are fixed in the current Beta we have. A new Public Beta based on that version should be available soon. Without major problems I can foresee that it will probably become the formal supply release.
Point 3 is open until a savegame can be found for this. Point 4 is a tricky one. The supply calculations can go exponential in certain circumstances. In my current game my RTB phase gives a long waiting time picking up large naval stacks. But I have Axis controlled colonies in Africa, and German garrisons in Norway which are supplied by an Italian controlled minor country capital on the Red Sea coast, who gets its supply taking the same route back to Petsamo to finally get supply from Trieste. I don't think ADG imagined their supply rules to be used for this - or perhaps realized this when they came up with the optional rule that CONVs are needed in each sea area of that route. In my game the latter optional might have prevented the supply calculations to go exponentially (and I will try it out in my next campaign).

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 5/14/2014 1:07:30 PM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 3

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/14/2014 5:51:03 PM

HoffnungSchutzer

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Regarding 3) Are all attacks at the same time? If so then the supply status at the start of the combat phase is the important state. I have also had this issue arise using an advance after combat to cut supply for a second attack. Needless to say, the odds were not favorable when the units stayed in supply.

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 4

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/14/2014 8:56:19 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoffnungSchutzer

Regarding 3) Are all attacks at the same time? If so then the supply status at the start of the combat phase is the important state. I have also had this issue arise using an advance after combat to cut supply for a second attack. Needless to say, the odds were not favorable when the units stayed in supply.

No. All attacks are not at the same time. You can choose the order of attack and therefore should be able to put units out of supply by attacking other units first...
Supply needs to be checked before each combat...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to HoffnungSchutzer)

Post #: 5

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/18/2014 1:59:26 PM

AxelNL

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From: The Netherlands
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I have been trying to reproduce 3) in a Barbarossa scenario. Tried it twice in different situations. One organised, one disorganised. One next to a friendly city, on further away. It works at my side, so I am afraid that we need an autosave from the start of the combat phase to reproduce this on our side.

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Post #: 6

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 12:58:04 PM

joshuamnave

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Save from start of axis land movement. Once the Japanese march into Hengyang, the bulk of the Chinese army should be OOS but is not.

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(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 7

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 1:25:39 PM

joshuamnave

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Also, in the same save...

Pick up the Italian Mtn unit in Romania and move it 1 hex NE. Then pick up the *stack* containing the Italian HQ and Mot and move it to the hex vacated by the Mtn unit. The stack will disorganize. This is a problem reintroduced by HQ units in hand no longer providing supply until they are set down again.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 8

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 1:55:40 PM

AxelNL

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From: The Netherlands
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Thanks, we just received a beta which should solve the problem you reported first on aligned minors needing sea supply. I will doublecheck that this evening and test your posted gamesave above as well against that version. Steve fixed two additional issues in that release.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 9

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 6:29:06 PM

a1a92492

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/17/2013
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Some bothersome issues
1. Japanese ship Nachi trapped at Bandar Shapur (81,77) at the end of turn Russia
conquests Persia leaving the cruiser without an apparent escape. Nachi has been overrun
and forced to rebase.
There are no valid moves. I checked that it can get to Mogadishu after fending off
CW ships in Azanian sea (125,72. So it works but has to be mentally figured out.
Should be able to click Command, show valid moves to find a good path
2. Vichy French convey Undeclared war situation west Med not enough movement ability
to move to Vichy France or Algeria if Italy Aborts its fleet.
3. If there are 3 or more Port Attacks for example 2 Bombers at Brest Occupied France,
3 at Antwerp, & 2 at Batavia, game freezes.
4. If there is a long air battle it will also freeze at times. Disconcerting.

_____________________________

James A Polden

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 10

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 7:21:10 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Save from start of axis land movement. Once the Japanese march into Hengyang, the bulk of the Chinese army should be OOS but is not.

First the good news. In the latest beta we got the problem with minor aligned units needing sea supply is fixed.
Than the relative good news: Chiang is supplying the bulk of the army. He is in fine weather, and able to trace a path of 4 hexes without a ZOC to the nearest Chinese city. See screenshot.

As soon as I move another unit: the Marine corps into 88,140 the bulk does turn OOS as that unit cuts the path with its ZOC

It took me a while to get the hang of it, but the hex that counts is the hex the unit is in. And the only terrain which hinders supply is desert and desert mountains. Not mountains on their own. Here's a citation from RAC:

The supply range from a unit, or from a secondary supply source, in a hex in fine weather is 4 hexes. The supply range from a unit, or from a secondary supply source, in a hex in snow is only 3 hexes. The supply range from a unit, or from a secondary supply source, in a hex in rain, storm or blizzard is only 2 hexes.
Chiang is in fine weather, so no problem tracing through rainy mountains.

Don't ask me why the units are listed double in the bottom row. I don't know. Could be only a cosmetic thing, as I cannot find a problem with this situation.

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< Message edited by AxelNL -- 5/21/2014 8:26:16 PM >

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 11

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 7:32:22 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Also, in the same save...

Pick up the Italian Mtn unit in Romania and move it 1 hex NE. Then pick up the *stack* containing the Italian HQ and Mot and move it to the hex vacated by the Mtn unit. The stack will disorganize. This is a problem reintroduced by HQ units in hand no longer providing supply until they are set down again.

Did that and having the stack in my hand means indeed they are all OOS. Putting it down gives the following screenshot, which is fine. Picking the HQ up and cutting supply in that case is indeed a bug, as Overruns with HQs are not possible in that way.

If you had another result than the screenshot (I think you had) - than one of the other fixes cleared that as well.

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< Message edited by AxelNL -- 5/21/2014 8:33:53 PM >

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 12

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 7:38:46 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: a1a92492

Some bothersome issues
1. Japanese ship Nachi trapped at Bandar Shapur (81,77) at the end of turn Russia
conquests Persia leaving the cruiser without an apparent escape. Nachi has been overrun
and forced to rebase.
There are no valid moves. I checked that it can get to Mogadishu after fending off
CW ships in Azanian sea (125,72. So it works but has to be mentally figured out.
Should be able to click Command, show valid moves to find a good path
2. Vichy French convey Undeclared war situation west Med not enough movement ability
to move to Vichy France or Algeria if Italy Aborts its fleet.
3. If there are 3 or more Port Attacks for example 2 Bombers at Brest Occupied France,
3 at Antwerp, & 2 at Batavia, game freezes.
4. If there is a long air battle it will also freeze at times. Disconcerting.

Hi James,

As you can see above, I or one of the other beta tester volunteers are willing to help out. The best way to do that is to provide a saved game. If we discover or confirm a bug than Steve needs that save game as well to quickly find the bug.
The game autosaves at various points in a turn, are you able to get some of them for us? Zip them and use the Post Reply button to get a smaller window where just below the text window you can upload a game.

(in reply to a1a92492)

Post #: 13

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/21/2014 10:42:39 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Also, in the same save...

Pick up the Italian Mtn unit in Romania and move it 1 hex NE. Then pick up the *stack* containing the Italian HQ and Mot and move it to the hex vacated by the Mtn unit. The stack will disorganize. This is a problem reintroduced by HQ units in hand no longer providing supply until they are set down again.

Did that and having the stack in my hand means indeed they are all OOS. Putting it down gives the following screenshot, which is fine. Picking the HQ up and cutting supply in that case is indeed a bug, as Overruns with HQs are not possible in that way.

If you had another result than the screenshot (I think you had) - than one of the other fixes cleared that as well.

Yes, I had a different result, although the issue with overruns is one I mentioned earlier as well. In my case, when I picked up the entire stack and moved it, they ended up disorganized. Interestingly, my stack ended with the motorized unit on top and the HQ on the bottom, while yours landed the other way around. Possibly that had something to do with it, if supply calculations were done in a different order?

As for the other issue - I see how chiang is supplying the army so no bug in that situation. However in the situation that first caused my to post about this bug, the French units in question were completely isolated, and a reload correctly changed their status to unsupplied. Unfortunately I do not have a save for it and I haven't seen it happen again. Unless it starts popping up more frequently, I'd say it's an anomaly not worth spending much time on.

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 14

RE: lingering supply bugshi - 5/24/2014 2:50:03 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

Hi Zartacla,

In the supply release there are two fixes for " Triangle" like OOS situations which only appeared after playing a complete turn. i.e. a savegame from just before the phase they appear would not reproduce the problem, it needed a reload from a much earlier phase. I will retest those to see if there has been regression.
If you see situations like the French units, send me an autosave from the start of the turn or end of the turn of the other side to see if it can be reproduced.
The Italian HQ situation is hopefully solved in the release I have, but there is a small chance it is in the same category. Is it reproduceable at your side with the save you posted? If yes, than the next release will have fixed it. If not, could you place an older save for me to experiment with? About the order of the units shown, I need to reload to see if I didn't change it myself.
PS: Steve's working environment is free of disturbing factors (like having no power due to electricians working) as of Friday. We are expecting a steep rise in fixes.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 5/24/2014 3:57:56 PM >

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 15

RE: lingering supply bugs - 5/30/2014 2:17:08 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: a1a92492

Some bothersome issues
1. Japanese ship Nachi trapped at Bandar Shapur (81,77) at the end of turn Russia
conquests Persia leaving the cruiser without an apparent escape. Nachi has been overrun
and forced to rebase.
There are no valid moves. I checked that it can get to Mogadishu after fending off
CW ships in Azanian sea (125,72. So it works but has to be mentally figured out.
Should be able to click Command, show valid moves to find a good path
2. Vichy French convey Undeclared war situation west Med not enough movement ability
to move to Vichy France or Algeria if Italy Aborts its fleet.
3. If there are 3 or more Port Attacks for example 2 Bombers at Brest Occupied France,
3 at Antwerp, & 2 at Batavia, game freezes.
4. If there is a long air battle it will also freeze at times. Disconcerting.

James,

If you could post a saved game with instructions on how to reproduce these problems, I would appreciate it.

There are so many different optional rules and possible relationships between countries (e.g., at war or not), that it is difficult to recreate a reported problem without a saved game.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to a1a92492)

Post #: 16

RE: lingering supply bugs - 6/3/2014 3:12:09 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Save from start of axis land movement. Once the Japanese march into Hengyang, the bulk of the Chinese army should be OOS but is not.

Not true. Chiang provides supply for most of the units and has supply available from Kweilin (where Stilwell is). because Chiang is in a hex with fine weather, he can trace 4 basic path hexes to Kweilin. But he could also use the rail line since the Japanese marine is a division - without a ZOC. Likewise, Stilwell could provide supply for many of these units - but that isn't necessary since Kweilin is a primary supply source in and of itself.

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_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 17

RE: lingering supply bugs - 6/3/2014 6:19:18 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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You got fooled by the "SNLF" designation - that's a Marine corps there. But Chiang does trace 4 to the city nonetheless, so no bug.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/3/2014 7:20:42 AM >

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Paul

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Post #: 18

RE: lingering supply bugs - 6/3/2014 6:31:39 AM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
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Yah... that one was resolved several posts back.