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Ammo at real Dates

 
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Ammo at real Dates - 5/6/2000 9:40:00 PM   
Omar.N.Bradley

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/6/2000
From: Sweden
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Hi, Well what i mean is that you have differnt ammo types for the same gun. AP,HVAP,HEAT etc... They don´t have all these at the same time ,well not in the beginning. In most of the early SP games all Guns/Tanks could fire all types of ammo that the weapon could fire. It did´t matter if it was in the beginnig of the war they fired HVAP if the weapon could do it. I well show an example. M10 Wolverine has a 3inch or a 76mm gun. It can fire AP in the beginning May1943, but not before June1944 can it fire HVAP i think if i remember right. As it has been now in SP games you can fire both AP and HVAP from the beginning. That way the TD is better than it was from start. It is the same with a lot of other Guns and Tanks from most of the Major Countries. I hope that you understand what i mean . If you could have different units for different time periods i would be happy. I can do this in the editor , but i would be great to have this from the beginning. It will be more realistic that way. In SL and ASL you manuals you have the dates for different ammo types for all countries. Me and a friend of mine that is a member of TGN did a big OoB version for SP1 and we have seen that folks that make OoB for them selfs has looked some at our OoB and thats good. I was the one doing the ammo types. We used SL and ASL a lot but also other resorces, I have i interesting link here for you all that i have found. http://www.shadowsfolly.com/ I´m new to this site as active but i have been reading a lot of the stuff here. This game is a dream coming through. Omar.N.Bradley

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- 5/7/2000 1:25:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


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Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
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The problem is that the game bases ammo on units, so if you want different ammo types to be available at different times you need two different units. We have done that in a few instances, but there aren't enough slots to do it across the board. The OOBs are meant to give folks the general idea - bit the data structures are not set up to do more than be "generic". We have pushed them a bit past what they were meant for as it is!! So to head off compliants about ammo and dates of availability there are compromises in there because of the unit # limits and the fact that things can only go out of service at the end of a year. The editor will let everybody "fix" them the way they thing best if something really offends them. We hope to include the best of those fixes in future OOB updates - so let us know. There are just somethings we can't represent and some things are represnted better than others. For Monday the Major powers are at a bout 98% of what is possible, the minors range form 50-80%. THere is over a man year in the last 4 months in them as it is and likely another man year or 2 to do to get them all to 98%. OOBs can be an infinite time sump and we look to the mass of you with specific expertise than the few of us to help us improve them! For now they will be adequate for the mainstream player, but we fully realize the limitations time and the data limiations make! These are not and we don't claim them to be authoritative references for the Tactial TO&E of every country in the war! Just a representation that lets players get some "local flavor" when playing the minor countries. And look to improve that... We could delay the game several months while we polish the OOB canonball, but feel it better to get them out there, warts and all and get feedback over time. Send me your bitches gripes and complaints! But realisze that unit classes are mostly to organize what shows up on the pick lists and liscense is taken, for instance "artillery" is off-board and "howitzers" are onboard. Some OOBs require calling things funky names like "Airborne IFV" so show up in the right formations. I am personally dedicated to continued improvement and am the guy to complain to if something is hosed up:-) But my number one goal was to make everything IN THERE and WORK for this release, making them work and show up at the right time and with the right ammo will come...but as the case with armor and penetration values likely never to everyones agreement [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 05-06-2000).]

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- 5/7/2000 3:57:00 AM   
troopie

 

Posts: 996
Joined: 4/8/2000
From: Directly above the centre of the Earth.
Status: offline
There comes a time when you must stop gathering information and ACT. Release the game as scheduled. If there are errors in the OOBs, I'm sure that there will be someone who can and WILL correct it. And don't expect to please everyone. "Zeus Himself cannot please everybody." Aesop troopie

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Pamwe Chete

(in reply to Omar.N.Bradley)
Post #: 3
- 5/7/2000 4:20:00 AM   
Guderian

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/3/2000
From: Poznan, Poland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: The problem is that the game bases ammo on units, so if you want different ammo types to be available at different times you need two different units. We have done that in a few instances, but there aren't enough slots to do it across the board. The OOBs are meant to give folks the general idea - bit the data structures are not set up to do more than be "generic". We have pushed them a bit past what they were meant for as it is!! So to head off compliants about ammo and dates of availability there are compromises in there because of the unit # limits and the fact that things can only go out of service at the end of a year. The editor will let everybody "fix" them the way they thing best if something really offends them. We hope to include the best of those fixes in future OOB updates - so let us know. There are just somethings we can't represent and some things are represnted better than others. For Monday the Major powers are at a bout 98% of what is possible, the minors range form 50-80%. THere is over a man year in the last 4 months in them as it is and likely another man year or 2 to do to get them all to 98%. OOBs can be an infinite time sump and we look to the mass of you with specific expertise than the few of us to help us improve them! For now they will be adequate for the mainstream player, but we fully realize the limitations time and the data limiations make! These are not and we don't claim them to be authoritative references for the Tactial TO&E of every country in the war! Just a representation that lets players get some "local flavor" when playing the minor countries. And look to improve that... We could delay the game several months while we polish the OOB canonball, but feel it better to get them out there, warts and all and get feedback over time. Send me your bitches gripes and complaints! But realisze that unit classes are mostly to organize what shows up on the pick lists and liscense is taken, for instance "artillery" is off-board and "howitzers" are onboard. Some OOBs require calling things funky names like "Airborne IFV" so show up in the right formations. I am personally dedicated to continued improvement and am the guy to complain to if something is hosed up:-) But my number one goal was to make everything IN THERE and WORK for this release, making them work and show up at the right time and with the right ammo will come...but as the case with armor and penetration values likely never to everyones agreement [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 05-06-2000).]
Ahem... Now the big question is - how do OOB's of Sp:WaW and Sp:WW2 correspond to each other ? Does WaW include any extra units, or are they similar etc. - just wan to know if i will have to do a lot of converting units between the games...

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Post #: 4
- 5/7/2000 5:16:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
To be honest I have not cross checked them in fact I made it a point NOT to look at SP:WW2's OOBs during the process. We started form Scott Grasse's OOBs from SP:SL and went form there. Many people had their hands in it so I suspect there will be similarities, but a lot will be different. The weapons penetration values have all been completely redone, All the units have been redone for Armor, speeds, etc. I relied on others for formations so I don't know there, but unit and weapon wise SP:WaW is completely redone. So unit wise, there are LOTs of differences. The two databases are completely incompatible with each other. [This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited 05-06-2000).]

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Post #: 5
- 5/7/2000 6:55:00 PM   
Omar.N.Bradley

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/6/2000
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Hi, Tankx for the answers, i understand that it´s difficult to do what i ask. I have one Question how many units can a country have(Slots)? Tommorow it´s time to download and i can´t hardly wait i want,want,want that game so hard. Bye Omar.N.Bradley

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Post #: 6
- 5/7/2000 7:50:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
255 Weapons, 255 units and 255 formations for eac country. THere are 27 countries (France uses the "French" OOB unitl Jan 43 and then switches to "Free France") thus there are 28 OOB files. The "spilt" file may be a way to allow more slots in the future as Germany or UK could possibly be split to allow early and late war specific versions. Right now I need a bit of a break form OOB'ing :-)

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Post #: 7
- 5/7/2000 8:16:00 PM   
Mark_Ezra

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 4/6/2000
From: Trabuco Canyon, Ca....USA
Status: offline
If memory serves, didn't the SP1 show HVP ammo in the M18 "Hellcat"? I think that little workaround did nicely... I recall upgrading many an M10 in the Long Campaign.

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Post #: 8
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