Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?'

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Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 6:13:25 PM

Shark7

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With the influx of new players to the game, figured I'd give my 'Getting Started' tips for you all to look at and discuss/debate.

Keep in mind, I am assuming you've managed to get hyperdrives and built your first star port.

Basically this is how I go about getting my empire up and running.

Part I: So I've got a space port (Shipyard) and warp drives, what now?

I advise turning off automatic colonization. The AI is too aggressive trying to colonize planets at first, and you just don't have the economy to support it.

1. Build about 12 explorers to start finding good resource locations.
2. Build 4 escorts and 4 frigates for the time being. Build more when resources and money allow.
3. Build 2 troop ships
4. Make sure you have at least 4 hyperspace capable construction ships
5. DO NOT start colonizing yet, your economy is not ready for it.
6. Build defense bases around the home planet and retrofit the space port to a Large Space Port.

I think the key to this phase of the game is not to expand too quickly. If you do not have the civilian economy built up (IE mines and freighters) you will actually hurt colony growth. Colony locations will be found, just keep them marked.

Your main focus should be securing multiple sites for the strategic resources (the stuff you need to build your ships) and fuel (both Caslon and Hydrogen). Why is this important? Because these resources are not only needed to build new ships and keep the fleet fueled, they are REQUIRED by planets to ensure your colonies develop. Fuel is the force that drives development, and without it your colonies will stagnate. And keep in mind, the colonies require a vast amount of fuel.

So your priority here, get those mines up and running so the civilian freighters can start taking those resources back to the home colony and get it developing.

Part II: Expansion

Ok, so now we're happy with our economy, our home planet has grown nicely and now we are running out of room for new people. Time to colonize some new planets.

1. Pick the best planets you can find (highest quality in range) and build colony ships to colonize them.
2. If you have a nearby planet with an independent population, put those troop transports to use...conquer it. Do with the population as you will (policy settings).
3. Build some more explorers to increase your exploration rate.
4. Build more construction ships (if you haven't in part I) and keep building those mines. You can also start building resort bases and more research stations now, since our economy is stable.
5. Design a star base with Medical and Recreational facilities, but DO NOT put construction yards on them. This will be your 'bonus orbital' to build over all new colonies to get the medical and recreational bonuses without breaking your economy (I'll explain below).
6. Continue building up your fleet. You will now have more planets and will need more smaller ships to patrol them.

Why conquer a peaceful population at an independent colony? Well, they are great for the tax base. There is also no guarantee that colonizing will work, so you lose the ship and the time and money you put into it. And finally, the reputation hit you will take is insignificant compared to the amount of population (and race bonuses) you will gain in the process.

Space ports (Ship Building Bases), Shark's special rules: space ports in this game are necessary, but not at every colony. Space ports suck up resources, so the more you have, the more strain you put on your civilian economy trying to supply them. This strain on the economy can actually completely crash it if it gets too great. I used to be of the group that built a small space port on every planet. And more than once I completely gutted my economy and never got back our of the red.

Now, I generally have no more than 1 space port for every 10 colonies...and even less in some games. And not surprisingly, my economy is actually booming in my games. Trade bonuses are actually very high because I have enough resources to sell to the AI empires. And I still get my medical and recreational bonuses at colonies with those small, cheap star bases (from Point #5 of this section) I build. If a pirate destroys that star base, its so cheap its not a big deal to rebuild it. I find this just works better overall.

Part III: Conquest

Now I am ready to conquer the galaxy.

1. Build up the military.
2. Get plenty of troop ships. You want enough capacity to deliver an over-whelming force to an enemy home world.
3. Keep building that economy...the stronger your economy, the stronger your military.
4. Pick your weakest neighbor and take everything they have.

This is the straight-forward part of the game. They have colonies, I want them and I take what I want.

The key here is to wipe out your weakest neighbor, then stay at peace for a while to stabilize your population, then repeat the steps.

Once you are to this point, you probably know what to do. Granted you do need to take into consideration your species victory conditions. Humans for instance need to make MDPs, so conquering the whole galaxy (while extremely satisfying) will not get your victory conditions fulfilled. So tailor this phase to what you need to do to gain victory.

That's it, good luck and good hunting. And most importantly: HAVE FUN.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 5/29/2014 9:11:29 PM >

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 6:16:03 PM

nedcorleone1

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Nice write-up. Effectively comprehensive and pointed.

quote:

Part II: Expansion

2. If you have a nearby planet with an independent population, put those troop transports to use...conquer it. Do with the population as you will (policy settings).

If the population is possibly friendly, you can gamble and just send a colony ship. Of course, if violence is your thing, send in the clowns.

(Just wanted to emphasize this point)

Also, what is your recommended 'fleet size' (i.e. number of ships per fleet) for the "Expansion Phase"?

< Message edited by mr_flappypants -- 5/29/2014 7:20:41 PM >

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 2

RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 6:18:35 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_flappypants

quote:

Part II: Expansion

2. If you have a nearby planet with an independent population, put those troop transports to use...conquer it. Do with the population as you will (policy settings).

If the population is possibly friendly, you can gamble and just send a colony ship. Of course, if violence is your thing, send in the clowns.

(Just wanted to emphasize this point)

I find the gamble isn't worth it, considering the downside to conquest is negligible. But I am known for being overly aggressive in game.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 6:51:02 PM

Erithtotl

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I haven't actually done much of this. I have turned off everything automatic and I have been building expensive fortresses over my colonies. My empire is hugely profitable. Maybe its because I'm only on normal difficulty?

One question is how do I know if colonies are short on fuel for growth?

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 6:59:50 PM

nedcorleone1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erithtotl

I haven't actually done much of this. I have turned off everything automatic and I have been building expensive fortresses over my colonies. My empire is hugely profitable. Maybe its because I'm only on normal difficulty?

One question is how do I know if colonies are short on fuel for growth?

Isn't it amazing? We could have a dozen people write out a 'steps to a good empire' guide and each one could potentially be completely different (and valid). DW gives you that.

< Message edited by mr_flappypants -- 5/29/2014 8:00:03 PM >

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 7:02:56 PM

Bingeling

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Good advice according to my mind, although I am a bit too colonize happy. This is great advice, although players should not have to follow it in detail, it shows a good strategy to get going. The main thing is to have fun.

You have an error towards the end of expansion, where you warn about star port, where you really should write spaceport. You make small star bases to avoid building extra spaceports. I think :) Star port is an inbetween confusing term.

< Message edited by Bingeling -- 5/29/2014 11:11:46 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 7:07:00 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erithtotl

I haven't actually done much of this. I have turned off everything automatic and I have been building expensive fortresses over my colonies. My empire is hugely profitable. Maybe its because I'm only on normal difficulty?

One question is how do I know if colonies are short on fuel for growth?

If you have advisors suggestion that you put out a smuggling contract for resources, you have a shortage.

The key thing about resources is that when you are short on them, it increases your maintenance costs on ships and bases. So a critical shortage on resources and a large fleet can crash the economy.

Why I stress fuel is this: You have to have it for your ships, and if you look at the resource file, hydrogen and caslon are the two resources colonies need the most of.

I do play on the harder difficulties, so that could be part of it.

And by all means, if what you are doing is working for you, then continue doing it. As was pointed out, if we take 1000 players, we'll find 1000 different ways to play the game.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 7:08:23 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Advice according to my mind, although I am a bit too colonize happy. This is great advice, although players should not have to follow it in detail, it shows a good strategy to get going. The main thing is to have fun.

You have an error towards the end of expansion, where you warn about star port, where you really should write spaceport. You make small star bases to avoid building extra spaceports. I think :) Star port is an inbetween confusing term.

OK, I can fix that. I think I might even go into more detail by specifying you don't need a lot of ship building facilities.

I build the star bases specifically so I don't build a bunch of starports and still get all the bonuses. All the bonuses you'd get from the small starport without the construction yard putting a strain on the economy.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 5/29/2014 8:14:46 PM >

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 7:25:16 PM

Bingeling

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I think a player notices when there is not enough ship-building facilities. If a single LSP is not enough, build one more, or expand it manually... By the time one need more one should have some other high quality colony quite a bit away from "home" to but a LSP on.

I did not see anything "wrong" apart form the term star port not being a part of the game :)

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 8:09:31 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I think a player notices when there is not enough ship-building facilities. If a single LSP is not enough, build one more, or expand it manually... By the time one need more one should have some other high quality colony quite a bit away from "home" to but a LSP on.

I did not see anything "wrong" apart form the term star port not being a part of the game :)

Ah, with me you have to be very specific. Didn't realize that in game it is a SPACE port.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 8:22:50 PM

Jim D Burns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Keep in mind, I am assuming you've managed to get hyperdrives and built your first star port.

A tip for brand new players that may not be too obvious to them yet. When your game first begins (pre-warp game), pause it. Then queue a large space port, 2 energy labs, 2 weapons labs and 2 high tech labs around your home planet. This assures you to have enough lab space to max out your research potential ASAP and cover any increase in potential as your colony population grows. It�s important to build the Large Space Port first so it doesn�t get shorted on resources by the labs construction. After these bases I also build 4 defense bases.

I do not build any ships right away (make sure you put construction on manual control so the AI doesn�t build anything either). I wait until I�ve researched the first engine improvement. That improvement will allow your constructors to move at sub light speeds of about 22 instead of the 14 or so the starting engine gives them (50%+ improvement to speed), so it�s worth the wait to get the research done first before you build, especially if you start in a solar system with long distances between planets. Just make sure you go in right away and turn off whatever the game started with and get the engine done before anything else.

This will greatly speed up the time it takes to build mines and explore your starting solar system. Not to mention speed up private vessels bringing back resources during the painfully slow pre-warp phase of the game.

Jim

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 9:09:20 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Keep in mind, I am assuming you've managed to get hyperdrives and built your first star port.

A tip for brand new players that may not be too obvious to them yet. When your game first begins (pre-warp game), pause it. Then queue a large space port, 2 energy labs, 2 weapons labs and 2 high tech labs around your home planet. This assures you to have enough lab space to max out your research potential ASAP and cover any increase in potential as your colony population grows. It�s important to build the Large Space Port first so it doesn�t get shorted on resources by the labs construction. After these bases I also build 4 defense bases.

I do not build any ships right away (make sure you put construction on manual control so the AI doesn�t build anything either). I wait until I�ve researched the first engine improvement. That improvement will allow your constructors to move at sub light speeds of about 22 instead of the 14 or so the starting engine gives them (50%+ improvement to speed), so it�s worth the wait to get the research done first before you build, especially if you start in a solar system with long distances between planets. Just make sure you go in right away and turn off whatever the game started with and get the engine done before anything else.

This will greatly speed up the time it takes to build mines and explore your starting solar system. Not to mention speed up private vessels bringing back resources during the painfully slow pre-warp phase of the game.

Jim

Good advice.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 9:37:31 PM

Aeson

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quote:

When your game first begins (pre-warp game), pause it. Then queue a large space port, 2 energy labs, 2 weapons labs and 2 high tech labs around your home planet.

Personally, I would generally start off with a smaller spaceport, as at least in Shadows it seemed to be the case that you could retrofit the space port while your colony was building the other stuff.

quote:

If the population is possibly friendly, you can gamble and just send a colony ship. Of course, if violence is your thing, send in the clowns.

Regardless of how friendly the population is, conquest is the cheaper option. It only takes 3 or 4 infantry divisions to take an independent colony, and you can reuse those infantry divisions to conquer additional worlds or as a garrison. Plus, it starts to build up an experienced core for your army and eventual clone army. Sending a colony ship to bring the world into your empire is guaranteed to cost you the time, money, and resources required to build the colony ship, and in general that is more valuable than the time, money, and resources spent on troops and troop transports, especially since colony ships have to be built by a colony's lone construction yard, whereas troop transports can be built by one of the 20 or 30 construction yards on the home space port. It's also usually faster, as I can load up a few infantry divisions onto a troop transport and send them off as soon as I find out about an independent colony, whereas with a colony ship I have to queue up the colony ship, wait for it to finish construction, and then send it along.

Beyond that, conquest is more efficient - if I have both a colony ship and a troop transport, and I know of an inhabited potential colony and an uninhabited potential colony, sending the troops against the inhabited colony and the colonists to the uninhabited world gets me roughly the same immediate boost to the tax base and brings me more long-term tax income sooner. It also means that I'm not wasting relatively valuable colony shipyard construction time building the extra colony ships to peacefully incorporate independents when I could be building a construction ship, an orbital base, or a colony ship destined for an uninhabited world. The minor penalty from invading independents to reputation is easy enough to counteract given relatively normal pirate settings.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/29/2014 9:47:11 PM

FroBodine

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Excellent tips in here! Thank you very much, Shark7, Jim Burns, Aeson and the rest! I am having so much fun just learning how to play this game!

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 2:14:05 AM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_flappypants

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erithtotl

I haven't actually done much of this. I have turned off everything automatic and I have been building expensive fortresses over my colonies. My empire is hugely profitable. Maybe its because I'm only on normal difficulty?

One question is how do I know if colonies are short on fuel for growth?

Isn't it amazing? We could have a dozen people write out a 'steps to a good empire' guide and each one could potentially be completely different (and valid). DW gives you that.

Yep, I've probably played DW as long as Shark7, and I do things quite differently and do quite well.

There are just so many ways to successfully play this game . . .

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 5:42:06 AM

Jim D Burns

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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aeson
Personally, I would generally start off with a smaller spaceport, as at least in Shadows it seemed to be the case that you could retrofit the space port while your colony was building the other stuff.

The reason I recommend the large space port right away is simple, if pirates come calling you won't have time to upgrade (upgrades get queued like a new base and have to wait their turn) before they destroy your smaller space port. Get the big one done ASAP so you have a fighting chance if they won't allow you to buy protection for some reason. I've had them accept and cancel protection multiple times before, and the large space port is all that saved my system from being wiped of all bases.

Jim

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 6:49:12 AM

MoloMowChow

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You mentioned adding recreational and medical centers to the star bases, but what about the commerce center?

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 10:20:30 AM

thefinn12345

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I'm a little confused here, so do you put one of these space stations on each planet and then put a "regular" style space station just once every 10 ?

Or do you actually just put one of these every 10 planets and leave the rest bare ?

Do you put defenses at all ? fighters? any suggestions for commerce centers ? (I have also wondered if putting more than 1 commerce center would make a difference).

Sorry for the plethora of noob questions ;)

edit: Also any clues as to how many docking ports I can get away with ?

< Message edited by thefinn -- 5/30/2014 11:21:42 AM >

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 11:03:23 AM

Bingeling

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He leaves spaceports for every 10 colonies or less. I figure they are all rather large ones.

For the rest of the colonies he puts a small base with the medical and recreation modules.

6 docking bays is what I seem to remember the small spaceport having. That could be a decent number as a starter. It also allows 10-15 ship fleets to refuel in a reasonable time if they ever can find enough fuel there.

I am not sure if ships dock at the colony if there is a queue on the base, the colonies have a lot of docking bays since shadows, but they are less efficient in transferring cargo.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 11:22:23 AM

Kantay

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One other thing going for conquering Independent colonies by force is that even during early game, there will be pirate bases, so you will need troops there anyway.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 10:14:38 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MoloMowChow

You mentioned adding recreational and medical centers to the star bases, but what about the commerce center?

Commerce center is not necessary on the star base. Civilian freighters will simply dock with the planet in this case. As a player you will not notice any difference in gameplay.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 10:20:30 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thefinn

I'm a little confused here, so do you put one of these space stations on each planet and then put a "regular" style space station just once every 10 ?

Or do you actually just put one of these every 10 planets and leave the rest bare ?

Do you put defenses at all ? fighters? any suggestions for commerce centers ? (I have also wondered if putting more than 1 commerce center would make a difference).

Sorry for the plethora of noob questions ;)

edit: Also any clues as to how many docking ports I can get away with ?

OK, the star base I suggest building is not a space port of any type. It is simply a little base that has the medical and recreational center component so that you still get the bonuses for the planet from those. A Space Port, has those 2 components as well, but it also has all the shipbuilding, research lab, etc components that drive up the costs. So yes, build star bases on 9 of your colonies and a space port on one of them. And spread those out, they don't need to be clumped together.

You can build as many space ports as you want, but it just isn't necessary to have a bunch of them.

So to sum up again, if I have 10 colonies:

I leave my Large Space Port on the home colony. The next 9 planets I colonize get a Medical/Recreational star base.

Docking Ports: On a space port, as many as you want. On the cheap star base, you only need 1 since it is NOT being used to transfer cargo to the colony.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/30/2014 11:44:28 PM

Spacecadet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: MoloMowChow

You mentioned adding recreational and medical centers to the star bases, but what about the commerce center?

Commerce center is not necessary on the star base. Civilian freighters will simply dock with the planet in this case. As a player you will not notice any difference in gameplay.

Actually, I think Commerce Centers are a requirement on Starports.

Okay, there are still questions bouncing around so I'll throw a few of my strategy tips - they're not necessarily better or worse than what Shark7 uses, they're just an alternative.

Early game, I build one Small Spaceport per System, usually on the first colony to reach about 500M Population.

When things progress a bit I'll upgrade the most valuable colony in the system to a Medium or Large Spaceport.

Around early-mid game, once I've got one Spaceport per system, I'll cycle back and start building a Small Spaceport on the remaining planets as this will give them the Recreation and Medical benefits boost which will allow you to Tax them higher without a non-compliance.
Additionally, this will give you at least some defensive capabilities to your planets, additional Research capacity, and more Ship Construction yards.

Some will not see this, but I tend to play really long games (~100 years or more), so late game I can start redesigning/retrofitting Spaceports without Research Labs to save some maintenance costs.
I don't really do this for monetary reasons as my Economy is usually humming along, but at this point in the game I've researched everything so I don't need the Labs and I'll use the extra cash to give my Military an extra kick.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 5/31/2014 3:20:08 AM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: MoloMowChow

You mentioned adding recreational and medical centers to the star bases, but what about the commerce center?

Commerce center is not necessary on the star base. Civilian freighters will simply dock with the planet in this case. As a player you will not notice any difference in gameplay.

Actually, I think Commerce Centers are a requirement on Starports.

Okay, there are still questions bouncing around so I'll throw a few of my strategy tips - they're not necessarily better or worse than what Shark7 uses, they're just an alternative.

Early game, I build one Small Spaceport per System, usually on the first colony to reach about 500M Population.

When things progress a bit I'll upgrade the most valuable colony in the system to a Medium or Large Spaceport.

Around early-mid game, once I've got one Spaceport per system, I'll cycle back and start building a Small Spaceport on the remaining planets as this will give them the Recreation and Medical benefits boost which will allow you to Tax them higher without a non-compliance.
Additionally, this will give you at least some defensive capabilities to your planets, additional Research capacity, and more Ship Construction yards.

Some will not see this, but I tend to play really long games (~100 years or more), so late game I can start redesigning/retrofitting Spaceports without Research Labs to save some maintenance costs.
I don't really do this for monetary reasons as my Economy is usually humming along, but at this point in the game I've researched everything so I don't need the Labs and I'll use the extra cash to give my Military an extra kick.

On a space port yes. But we are discussing star bases. They have no requirements at all. Completely different thing that we are discussing.

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RE: Shark's quick tips on 'What to do now?' - 6/10/2014 5:01:29 PM

Shark7

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Been seeing quite a few topics on bad economy lately, so thought I'd bump this up for newer members to see again. Think of this is a set of tips, pointers and guidelines, not a step by step do it this way only.

Remember, if your economy in this game is tanking, it is usually caused by having too many ships, bases and (especially) space ports with not enough resource mines to support them.

The key to the game is to grow slowly at first, then speed up as you get the resources to support your expansion.

The last game I played I had 24 caslon/hydrogen sources and 6-7 of every other resource before I really started expanding, and I still ran into some shortages (but my economy didn't tank). The fuel sources are the most important since they are needed by everything: colonies, ships and bases.

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Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 25