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Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 7:29:36 PM

Ridinroun

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Is there a formula for getting correct number of ships for transporting troops? I get a pencil and add everything up then select the number of ships accordingly and after I load up and leave port, I leave troops behind. According to the accept load screen, it shows ok. Nothing in red. But sure enough I leave em behind. Do I need to add up troops and then go + a certain percentage or what?

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 7:36:52 PM

Dili

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Usually the Accept check is reliable, but it is always good to give some margin. Also in the menu you can add other ships that are in port so do not need to leave troops behind.
Note that the size that troops take depend on mode they are.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 8:03:07 PM

geofflambert

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When feasable I use a lot more than necessary and stifle the loading of supply once it is adequate. I also use the smallest ships available with sufficient range. The reason I do this is to lower the cost when an enemy sub sinks one or more of them. For this reason I almost never use xAPs and avoid xAK-ts when I can. On some of those you can lose a whole brigade or worse from a single sub attack.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 8:03:12 PM

HansBolter

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Are you referring to transport or amphibious TFs.

I often see motorized support left behind on amphibious TF missions.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 8:24:51 PM

dr.hal

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In Amphibious mode you need about 20% extra space as I recall...

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 8:34:14 PM

Gaspote

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Always assign more troop space, 30% more so you avoid this. Although like geofflambert said, sub attack will destroy your unit so make sure to not have too much troop in a single cargo. If you have empty space in others ships, they will save some guy from the ship sunk.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 9:03:39 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

In Amphibious mode you need about 20% extra space as I recall...

I'm referring to situations where the "confirm loading" screen showed 100% loading and the TF still leaves behind devices that don't unload easily over the beach.

This has always been a little bit stumping because the amphib TF can be used to unload some devices over the beach that won't unload at the "dock" of a level one port.

I'm sure Alfred knows the nuances of why this is so, but I'll be damned if I would knowing ask to be subjected to his insultingly condescending mannerisms to get the answer.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 9:06:54 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

Always assign more troop space, 30% more so you avoid this. Although like geofflambert said, sub attack will destroy your unit so make sure to not have too much troop in a single cargo. If you have empty space in others ships, they will save some guy from the ship sunk.

The ONLY situations where I load a unit on a single ship are when the ship is a "fast" transport (19-22 knots, or in the case of the QM, 31 knots...not to be confused with a Fast Transport TF).

These ships can at least be hoped to be able to outrun the subs in most encounters and thus be less vulnerable to losing the LCU in one shot.

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Hans

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/4/2014 9:45:26 PM

kbfchicago

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Hans,

I have experienced the same issue. Some time ago...I recall a post where one of the folks who would have insight posted comments on the logic used to "fill" tranpsports. Bottom line, nothing ever fits perfectly just based on a total sq/ft space requirements so even when the system shows "100%" when actually loaded you can still have spill over if you cut it close. I thought that was actually a pretty neat feature...(having done aircraft load plans in a previous life)...that there is enough logic involved to both say; "yep, sq/ft is ok..." then when you're done loading be left with trucks on the dock because you came up short due to tetris like activities to actually make all the equipment fit economically in a defined space. Since then, I tend to throw in that one extra ship whenever possible or the load absolutley positively needs to be 100%. Even if the system is telling me I "should" be able to squeeze it all the ships presented prior to loading.

I'll look when I get home if I saved that particular thread and post if I have it...

Kevin

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 1:23:56 AM

rockmedic109

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Amphib TF only has 80% of it's capacity {Combat Loading}. I always strive to have an extra ship or two just for the quicker unloading and as space to pick up survivors if one of the ships eat a torp or four. I also use the troop loading only quite a bit; this also reduces the time spent in dangerous areas unloading. Seems to work for me but I am probably over doing things a bit....but then as an AFB I have lots of goodies to use.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 2:38:57 PM

czert2

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Same, if i have enough ships to use, i allwas use amph load, even if is move from friedly port to another friendly one. And here are resons :
since you use only 80% you have some space to pick up survivors from sunk ships (and as bonus you lose less trops/supplies)
it is faster loading/unloading than in normal transport
you dont need to think about size of origin/destination port or if it is damaged (unloading of 300 troops with 50 supplies for 3 days from normal TF to damaged port, while this is task for 12h for amphb TF was cure for me)
yes it it less economical - fuel wise (which is rare for japanese like me :( ) - but i think time is more imortant for them, especialy you can boost tankers production to ease moving it.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 2:51:31 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2

Same, if i have enough ships to use, i allwas use amph load, even if is move from friedly port to another friendly one. And here are resons :
since you use only 80% you have some space to pick up survivors from sunk ships (and as bonus you lose less trops/supplies)
it is faster loading/unloading than in normal transport
you dont need to think about size of origin/destination port or if it is damaged (unloading of 300 troops with 50 supplies for 3 days from normal TF to damaged port, while this is task for 12h for amphb TF was cure for me)
yes it it less economical - fuel wise (which is rare for japanese like me :( ) - but i think time is more imortant for them, especialy you can boost tankers production to ease moving it.

But won't your unload rates be slower at high level ports compared to using the dock facility?

Also, I'm not sure you are getting the "save survivors" of other ships sunk bonus you think you are.

Since an amphib TF will only load to 80% capacity doesn't that same limitation apply while at sea? It doesn't seem to make sense that the individual ships loaded to 80% are going to suddenly become capable of stuffing something into that reserved 20% just because they are now at sea.

Oversizing the TF and checking load troops only is, in my mind the best way to be certain you have an overcapacity to be able to pick up survivors.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 6/5/2014 3:53:51 PM >

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Hans

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 3:44:58 PM

Dili

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The most important reason to use amphib is managment by the player there is two less clicks to put into and out of strategic mode.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 4:24:16 PM

Gaspote

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Since an amphib TF will only load to 80% capacity doesn't that same limitation apply while at sea? It doesn't seem to make sense that the individual ships loaded to 80% are going to suddenly become capable of stuffing something into that reserved 20% just because they are now at sea.

Oversizing the TF and checking load troops only is, in my mind the best way to be certain you have an overcapacity to be able to pick up survivors.

I remember getting some of my guy save in the 20%, but it didn't save the whole unit because of the small space available.

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Post #: 14

RE: Troop Transport - 6/5/2014 6:13:10 PM

czert2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2

Same, if i have enough ships to use, i allwas use amph load, even if is move from friedly port to another friendly one. And here are resons :
since you use only 80% you have some space to pick up survivors from sunk ships (and as bonus you lose less trops/supplies)
it is faster loading/unloading than in normal transport
you dont need to think about size of origin/destination port or if it is damaged (unloading of 300 troops with 50 supplies for 3 days from normal TF to damaged port, while this is task for 12h for amphb TF was cure for me)
yes it it less economical - fuel wise (which is rare for japanese like me :( ) - but i think time is more imortant for them, especialy you can boost tankers production to ease moving it.

But won't your unload rates be slower at high level ports compared to using the dock facility?

Also, I'm not sure you are getting the "save survivors" of other ships sunk bonus you think you are.

Since an amphib TF will only load to 80% capacity doesn't that same limitation apply while at sea? It doesn't seem to make sense that the individual ships loaded to 80% are going to suddenly become capable of stuffing something into that reserved 20% just because they are now at sea.

Oversizing the TF and checking load troops only is, in my mind the best way to be certain you have an overcapacity to be able to pick up survivors.

Well, for moving supplies/resources i use normal tranport, and it is posible that from say 7 to 7 normal load will be faster than amhibious for troops, but since i rare move troops from these big ports to another big one, i dont think it is great deal. And if in destination port you cant move troops via RR to destination, you will save few days due to not having need to unpack.
And i allways asumet that 20% lost space for amph is due to loaded ships withr assault boats - and i thought that in case of need you can squeze extra troops inside them more easily than on fully normal loaded ship. But didnt tested it, it is fully posible that 80% amph load count same way as 100% normal load.
Still point in losing less troops/supplies in case of lost ship is valid :).
And yes, using extra ships than needed for troops tranport is very safe way to reduce causalties, and i use it.
For amph assult to contested hexes i love to use "oversized" TF - that big, so i can uload all troops in one way (other days are used just to safely unload supplies) - it nicely reduce damage done to assaulting ships by enemy guns fire.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/6/2014 12:51:16 PM

jmalter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I'm referring to situations where the "confirm loading" screen showed 100% loading and the TF still leaves behind devices that don't unload easily over the beach.

This has always been a little bit stumping because the amphib TF can be used to unload some devices over the beach that won't unload at the "dock" of a level one port.

I get this quite frequently when assembling an AmphTF. In almost all cases, a full Allied division will almost always fail to load a good percentage of its Motorized Support devices - they get left behind in the initial load, & I have to add them to my follow-up forces. I've been unable to determine if this caused by using non-APA/AKA transports, or by not including enough cargo-capacity in the initial TF.

It's quite different from other cases, where heavy items (Observer Corps or Radars) will load to the TF, but fail to unload at the destination. I'm inclined to think it's a glitch in the way the load-%age calculation is performed.

Re the comments of rescuing survivors from a sunken transport, let me refer you to CDL (Cribtop's Lifeboat Doctrine) in which an empty troop-carrier is assigned to Merge to an Amph/TransTF as it leaves port. An empty ship has a good chance of picking up infantry-type devices from the water, but they'll be heavily damaged & disrupted.

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/8/2014 12:39:33 AM

rustysi

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quote:

Re the comments of rescuing survivors from a sunken transport, let me refer you to CDL (Cribtop's Lifeboat Doctrine) in which an empty troop-carrier is assigned to Merge to an Amph/TransTF as it leaves port. An empty ship has a good chance of picking up infantry-type devices from the water, but they'll be heavily damaged & disrupted.

This is a must if you wish to save those boys that go for an early swim.

Keep in mind when loading out a convoy the game dosen't like it when you try to pack every square in of a vessel. Leave extra room and in an amphibios TF leave more room. Also, keep in mind that an amphibios TF unloading over a beach might take a couple of days to unload larger devices (IIRC they need to accumulate points or something to do it).

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RE: Troop Transport - 6/8/2014 7:45:44 PM

jmalter

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It's always a good idea to include some Naval Support in your 1st wave, but only if it's fully-prepped for the assault target.

The Allies (at least, in my DBB_B game) have several USN 'port service detachments' w/ 30 NavSupp & 30 AvSupp, these units are quite handy. Slow unload at an AmphTF destination can be a big problem, even a bit of NavSupp can help.

Another helpful thing is to pre-plan your attack-force load-out. Are you bringing AA, ARM & ART LCUs? Load them up 1st, to a TF composed of LSTs (supplemented w/ LSD/LSV types). Let them set sail, then load up your INF & ENG units to APA/AKAs. When they leave port, tell the 1st group of LSTs to Merge to the APA/AKA group.

I needn't mention that you'll want to add CLs & DDs to the AmphTF. But you'll need to do a bit of dancing, especially when loading an Amph Assault group from a small-size port.

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