Private beta test ATG v2.20

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Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/3/2014 8:12:06 AM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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Hi all,

First of all thanks for all the feedback. I did quite a number of long-overdue fixes. All to "minor" issues, but I am happy they are adressed. Also I took the time to open up a new feature to modders and illustrated how to use it in the New Dawn ruleset (which is now at version 2.0).

In the New Dawn ruleset you can now if you chose design your own tanks.
Read more about it here: http://www.vrdesigns.nl/atwiki/doku.php?id=subformationtype_models

As usual I have released a private beta patch on vrdesigns.nl first to test with the few brave and capable to actually manually copy the files.

Once everything is more or less stable i'll move the patch to public beta patch on the Matrix servers.

Download loc of new files .zip (to be manually copied over latest version of ATG):
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/privatepatch/AtgPatch220c.zip [updated version 10th of july 2.20c]

Changelist v2.20c:
-Added new tank artwork for the random models by Mike Gaffney. Thanks Mike!
-Increased cost of new tank models a bit

Changelist v2.20a/b:
-Added Subformationtype model design feature to engine and implemented it with all tank types for the New Dawn ruleset and random games. Provided also some documentation on the wiki.
-Allied AA in different hex joins air defense.
-Strategic map doesnt show location names if prefs option is off.
-Fixed level 1 divebomber fuel use in attack for all masterfiles.
-Fixed issue where it was possible to attack units by air (in shrowd with rulevar 348 active) while your where at peace with regime
-Fixed issue where shipyard was giving production to allied unit instead of own unit.
-Fixed issue where you could not check the supply layer when you have a HQ inside allied territory
-Fixed submarine landscape defense modifier in all masterfiles. Snow, Mud and Desert Urban locations now also give 200% defensive modifier to the sub (abstracting sub-pens)
-Fixed that rulevar 906 can now actually really control the option to block renaming of officers.
-Fixed a rounding error in upgrading costs
-Fixed some issues in editor, including a nasty bug with irresponsive prefs and new unit screen when using + and - keys to zoom.
-Fixed blatant bug where you could change enemy units standard orders if playing with FOW off.

If all goes well this private beta should move to public beta within a few weeks.

Please provide feedback in this thread.

Kind regards,
Vic

< Message edited by Vic -- 7/10/2014 9:51:14 AM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/4/2014 12:48:59 AM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
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From: WV USA
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Update 6/15/14: Thanks Vic for reconsidering this issue and providing a fix in v2.20b. I believe ATG gamers will appreciate this one a lot.

This is not specific to 2.20 but it is an issue, especially with multiplayer games: city distribution. When using full range climate cities are mostly bunched in the middle third of the map. This does not occur if you use Temperate climate. I suggest for an improved gaming experience this bunching of cities should not occur regardless of the climate option chosen.

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< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/15/2014 8:55:43 PM >

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Tac2i (formerly webizen)

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Post #: 2

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/4/2014 8:00:36 AM

Vic

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You know? Actually that distribution was on intent. Since I wanted the artic and tropics to be mostly a fight about resources and more about wilderness and out-back in general.

Best,
Vic

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Post #: 3

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/4/2014 9:26:07 AM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
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From: WV USA
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I realize it is an intent and not a bug. I'm just saying that the group of guys that I play multi-player games with has stopped using full range climate to generate random games. We have come to feel this bunching of cities feature does not generate maps we find suitable for 4 or 6 player games. Is this something that can be modded?

By the way, thanks a ton for the bug fixes and new tank model feature. Your continued support of this older title is very much appreciated. Looking forward to Shadow Empire and perhaps a future AT3.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/4/2014 10:33:58 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/5/2014 6:16:18 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
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This tank model feature is going to be cool! Screenshot is from my first experimentation with it, comparing a new model light tank with the basic standard model.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/5/2014 6:27:25 PM

ernieschwitz

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Nice Webizen, I too am looking at it, seeing if I can make it work with something other than armor :)

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/5/2014 8:50:13 PM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
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From: WV USA
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Edit 6/15/14: Not a bug with Super Heavy Tank model. The bug was with the "cheap" research option and Vic fixed this issue in v2.20b.

Potential Issue: it appears all regimes have access to the Super Heavy Tank model and can create a new concept based on it, however only the German regime has access to Super Heavy Tank theory. This makes impossible for other regimes to actually build them.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/15/2014 8:53:33 PM >

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 3:04:47 AM

Snoman

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I've been experimenting with the tank design system in a game I edited to give me millions of PP. It seems like there is a degree of luck involved as to whether you're going to get a good tank design or not. I see that there is a random emphasis for each new model (which I was disappointed by, I was hoping to have more control over tailoring the new designs towards a specific goal), but regardless of the emphasis, some models come out better across the board, for the same mix of upgrades.

Perhaps there is simply more going on than I can see? (which is an interface design issue in itself). Or am I correct that sometimes you'll just get a 'lemon'? Overall my biggest problem so far is that it all seems like black magic: I've got no idea what's going on to produce the numbers that come out the other side.

I look forward to some insight as to how this is all being calculated. Please take my comments as constructive criticism, as overall I think that this new feature is great! I particularly like how the new models automatically get given names and model numbers etc.

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Post #: 8

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 7:45:00 AM

Vic

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@Snowman,

Your correct there is a chance (albeit smaller) that an new model/upgrade does something a bit worse, but overall it should almost always be an improvement. Use the compare function in unit details with Std. Light Tank I.

One of the reasons for this new feature is to see if there will be some modder that wants to expand on it.

Basically there are 3 big subfeatures to these models:

1. New / Upgrades
2. Improvements
3. Alterations

I only added one type of alteration: the trading of hitpoints for speed. I think this is more the kind of stuff you were thinking about when you think about designing tanks. The engine thus supports concious design. But I went for a more random route (because I was planning for New Dawn in the future to hide more details so a new type of fog of war is added).

Best,
Vic

< Message edited by Vic -- 6/6/2014 8:56:00 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 7:56:24 AM

Vic

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First bug. Thanks for reporting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Potential Issue: it appears all regimes have access to the Super Heavy Tank model and can create a new concept based on it, however only the German regime has access to Super Heavy Tank theory. This makes impossible for other regimes to actually build them.

quote:

Potential Issue: it appears all regimes have access to the Super Heavy Tank model and can create a new concept based on it, however only the German regime has access to Super Heavy Tank theory. This makes impossible for other regimes to actually build them.

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Post #: 10

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 8:48:50 AM

Snoman

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Thanks for taking the time to respond @Vic.

I wasn't trying to imply that I thought some designs were coming out worse than other designs with fewer upgrades. I actually made four models of a light tank with the same set of upgrades, and of those four some were better in some areas than others, but one was worse than all the others in every area. I suppose one could have multiple designs running in parallel, and choose the best, but that would be way too expensive in practice. The thing is, now I'll always be plagued with the suspicion that my tanks are of below average quality for the given upgrades I've applied. Which it sounds like they simply may actually be.

I guess I'm used to having more information about these things, but I see that it's more of a design decision than a bug. On reflection, if I did have clear information about whether my tanks' upgrades had been fully effective, there's not much I'd be able to do about it. It was just a shock when trying it out to discover that spending all those PP wouldn't necessarily give the improvement I was after.

Perhaps if each upgrade indicated the percentage spread of the effect they could have? At least then you know what you're in for.

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 12:31:06 PM

kombrig

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Haven't checked yet if this feature is something that I can edit (considering my not so good skills) but it would be great if something similar could be applied to naval vessels and especially different airplanes.

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Post #: 12

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/6/2014 7:06:07 PM

Veni

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From: Kabul
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Quick observation (bug?): when 'cheap research' option is selected for random games, all tank types are available for design (0 PP) w/o research; NOT available for production, though. Attached is first turn screen shot.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 13

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/7/2014 8:58:56 AM

Vic

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Thanks for the observations. I am going to wait a week or so for all feedback to come in before making repairs and uploading the next version as the official public beta on Matrix.

Best,
Vic

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Post #: 14

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/8/2014 1:15:29 AM

Tac2i

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Minor Issue: Probably been around awhile but the Russian Katsuya rocket unit sounds exactly like infantry when moving.

Update 6/15/14: My memory was incorrect. Been playing a lot of Lancer's Enhanced Mod Suite where the SHQ officer does gain experience from commanding his subordinates.

SHQ Officer Experience: possible regression - this could just be my memory but I thought the SHQ officer was supposed to gain some experience from his subordinates. In my one test game he did not.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/15/2014 8:58:08 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/9/2014 4:41:39 PM

Veni

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From: Kabul
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'Nuther observation: the dates are off in the info panel for new SFT designs. Attached pic: Panther II was created in the previous round (DEC37 vs SEP36), and Panther just a few turns before that (not in JUL36).

A minor issue to be sure, but just FYI. Cheers!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/10/2014 12:56:55 AM

Tac2i

Posts: 2001
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From: WV USA
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New topic: Not specific to ATG 2.20 and maybe out of scope for this patch but thought I'd mention that the AI does not build cavalry units.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/11/2014 1:51:08 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/12/2014 5:19:58 PM

Tac2i

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Update 6/15/14: all issues fixed in Vic's v2.20b release.

Issue: the anewdawn.at2 file has the medium tank set as known research. This is not true of anewdawn2.at2 (with tank models) or any of the other at2 files in v2.20 or 2.15i. Also noticed that tank models are enabled in anewdawn.at2 along with the new tank research items. Don't know if this was intended. I've edited my copy of anewdawn.at2 to disable tank models and set the medium tank to tech level 2 so it is no longer a known research item. This way I can play a v2.20 game (with its bug fixes) with or without tank models.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/15/2014 9:00:15 PM >

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/14/2014 11:20:56 PM

Tac2i

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Observation re anewdawn2.at2: I've got two games going vs the AI. In these games I've yet to see the AI produce any tanks or aircraft. Perhaps I'm not far enough along to see planes but I would have expected to see at least some light tanks. The AI is producing armored cars and various artillery guns.

Edit: Further into the game and the AI has introduced light tanks.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/19/2014 1:12:39 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/14/2014 11:55:28 PM

Twotribes

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The AI is always slow at producing Tanks.

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/15/2014 5:09:11 PM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Potential Issue: it appears all regimes have access to the Super Heavy Tank model and can create a new concept based on it, however only the German regime has access to Super Heavy Tank theory. This makes impossible for other regimes to actually build them.

In fact this seems not to be the case. Could you give me an exact example of steps taken?

Best,
vic

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Post #: 21

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/15/2014 5:09:50 PM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

This is not specific to 2.20 but it is an issue, especially with multiplayer games: city distribution. When using full range climate cities are mostly bunched in the middle third of the map. This does not occur if you use Temperate climate. I suggest for an improved gaming experience this bunching of cities should not occur regardless of the climate option chosen.

I decided in favour of your argument :) The next version will have less extreme generation.

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Post #: 22

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/15/2014 5:24:05 PM

Vic

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Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Minor Issue: Probably been around awhile but the Russian Katsuya rocket unit sounds exactly like infantry when moving.

SHQ Officer Experience: possible regression - this could just be my memory but I thought the SHQ officer was supposed to gain some experience from his subordinates. In my one test game he did not.

Nope the SHQ officer needs to play cards to gain experience.

best,
Vic

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Post #: 23

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/15/2014 6:02:10 PM

Vic

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Posted a new version of the private patch: v2.20b
http://www.vrdesigns.nl/privatepatch/AtgPatch220b.zip

Fixlist:
-Increased number of towns in desert, arctic and tropical zone in random games.
-Fixed statistics for combat with mixed allied units
-Fixed issue with Cheap Research variant and model costs
-Fixed issue with wrong dates displayed in new unit type descriptions
-Fixed file mixup issue. anewdawn.at2 is the old version of new Dawn no (without tank models, but updated with rule fixes!)

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RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/17/2014 4:49:29 AM

harley9699

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Ok good. Just found this earlier today. Have been testing anewdawn2.at2 ever since. Came back just to double check and make sure I was using the right one.
Man! I'm glad there's still work being done on this.
Obviously looking forward to Shadow Empire as well.
Been with AT since there was an AT.

< Message edited by harley9699699 -- 6/17/2014 5:50:04 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 6/17/2014 4:50:17 PM

towerbooks3192

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Why oh why is faith so cruel! I will be having 2 exams in the next 2 days.

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Post #: 26

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 7/10/2014 8:19:21 AM

Vic

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Uploaded private patch version 2.20c. Will also see if an update of the public beta is possible.

Best,
Vic

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Post #: 27

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 7/10/2014 4:19:03 PM

harley9699

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Thanks. Jumped on that one.

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Post #: 28

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 7/17/2014 12:39:21 PM

Tac2i

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From: WV USA
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Note that there is now a public beta available in the Members Club.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 7/17/2014 1:41:39 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Private beta test ATG v2.20 - 7/17/2014 1:29:46 PM

harley9699

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I got, "Ftp server doesn't allow connections." "Details: 421 IP Address blocked."
I'm logged in and haven't ever been blocked from anything else.

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Post #: 30