NATO Inf + how to hold cities

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NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 1:19:47 PM

pekische

Posts: 184
Joined: 8/20/2012
From: Czech republic
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I have to questions your community. What is your strategy in this points?:

1/ What is the main role for NATO infantry? I can�t find the task for them in which they would be irreplaceable. They seem to be very weak against armors, even in close combat(!). And soviet inf is outnumbered. Summary: NATO inf doesn�t mean any problem for soviets. So I am using NATO inf only for scouting or like a little delay against soviet advance. But they can�t stop anything.

2/ How to hold a larger cities like NATO? Inf is weak and soviets armors are more suitable for streets than NATO armors....

Post #: 1

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 2:33:14 PM

jds1978

Posts: 114
Joined: 10/1/2010
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1. Create combined arms teams.

2. Infantry versus armor in street combat....advantage goes to the infantry. Check out the 'Defense of the Weser Crossing' scenario

(in reply to pekische)

Post #: 2

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 5:47:23 PM

cbelva

Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jds1978

2. Infantry versus armor in street combat....advantage goes to the infantry. Check out the 'Defense of the Weser Crossing' scenario

quote:

Infantry versus armor in street combat....advantage goes to the infantry. Check out the 'Defense of the Weser Crossing' scenario

Thank you for this comment. That was what I was aiming to simulate with that scenario.

(in reply to jds1978)

Post #: 3

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 7:46:13 PM

jds1978

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Joined: 10/1/2010
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No prob....it's a really good battle

(in reply to cbelva)

Post #: 4

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 9:27:40 PM

cbelva

Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
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I built this scenario to test many different features of the game early on. I have played it more times than I can remember. It shook out many bugs in the games and evolved with the game. It is not the same scenario that I first started with. It definitely had an impact on infantry play in the game.

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Post #: 5

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/11/2014 11:39:14 PM

jds1978

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Joined: 10/1/2010
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I usually abandon the forward positions (recon and OP...otherwise they won't survive the 4KM open field in between), defend forward @ Bremen with my ATGM and tanks and put the infantry farther back defending the crossroads. The secret is to know when to fall back so you don't get clobbered.

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Post #: 6

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/12/2014 12:32:23 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

Timing is generally everything.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to jds1978)

Post #: 7

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/12/2014 7:01:53 AM

IronMikeGolf

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
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It can be done. I've been playing the US Campaign:
In Scenario 1, C/4-41 Inf had 47 AFV kills (39 tanks and APCs), losing 1 and a half platoons.
In Scenario 3, 1st Plt, A/3-41 Inf killed 15 tanks. 3d Plt, B/4-41 Inf killed 22 tanks. C/4-41 had 37 kills.

Watch who kills your infantry. A lot of times, it is not the guys your infantry is shooting at. It's the next company behind them.

Things that help infantry survive
1. Being in good cover
2. Position them so that when they shoot, the only enemy that sees them are the ones being shot at
3. Use smoke (sure would be nice if the infantry battalions brought their mortars, too). Smoke on your infantry. Smoke to block supporting units.
4. Use infantry for the depth part of defense in depth.
5. Pay attention to friendly vs enemy max weapons ranges. If you are play with the Germans, the Milan on the Marder has a 2000m range. Don't put them where a T80 5000 or 6000 m away can see him.
6. Anticipate where the enemy will move. Think VPs and roads. Set up so your guys shot there from the flank, not from head on. Use the edge of woods/town/hill to hide behind. That helps you do #2 above.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

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Post #: 8

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/12/2014 10:21:46 PM

calgar

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/5/2012
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I have little experience with this game so far, I have just played a few scenarios. I am currently preparing a pbem game, that will go online on Youtube after the session is finished. Since I don't want to spoil myself, we chose a scenario I hav not yet played, Hells crossroads. And since I only have one chance I would like to ask:

Is Infantry harder to spot, once dug-in?
Is a dug-in InfCoy durable enough, to hold out against a TnkBn in 30% cover and Dug in posture, reinforced with ATGMs?

I just don't know what the game assumes the infantry does within the hex, e.g. whether there are abstracted ridgelines within a Hex that Infantry uses to break LOS. This questions aims espacially on the effect of the dug-in posture.

Regards,

A

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 9

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/13/2014 6:14:23 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: calgar

I have little experience with this game so far, I have just played a few scenarios. I am currently preparing a pbem game, that will go online on Youtube after the session is finished. Since I don't want to spoil myself, we chose a scenario I hav not yet played, Hells crossroads. And since I only have one chance I would like to ask:

quote:

Is Infantry harder to spot, once dug-in?

Yes.

quote:

Is a dug-in InfCoy durable enough, to hold out against a TnkBn in 30% cover and Dug in posture, reinforced with ATGMs?

Not likely. The only time I would take infantry directly head to head with a pure armored unit would be in a town setting. The tanks will sit back and take our men out over time if they aren't in a town.

Just because they are harder to see doesn't make them invisible and especially after they open fire they will be detected. If the other side has recon that helps them in their attempts to find you.

quote:

I just don't know what the game assumes the infantry does within the hex, e.g. whether there are abstracted ridgelines within a Hex that Infantry uses to break LOS. This questions aims espacially on the effect of the dug-in posture.

Regards,

A

Not sure what your question is here. The games infantry does what real life infantry does. It takes advantage of the terrain in the hex to help it stay alive. Digging in isn't a stance that turns your troops into super men. They will gain from the fact they are dug in. They won't become impervious to enemy fire because they are.

The game plays as close to real life situations as we can get it. That's why we continue to tweak the game. To continue to get it closer to that goal in all areas of game play. Of course, not everybody agrees what playing close to real life situations is. Even on the team we have disagreements at times about what is a reasonable assumption about how certain things should work.

We do the best we can.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 6/13/2014 7:16:03 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/13/2014 6:41:24 AM

IronMikeGolf

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Joined: 3/19/2010
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calgar,

Yes, inf is harder to spot when dug in. How much, I don't know.

Inf co vs tk bn? There's a lot of "it all depends" in that. By "hold out", I am taking that to mean inf is sitting on the movemnt axis of an assaulting tank bn.

30% cover is pretty open. Is the tank bn really all that will be shooting at the inf co? Arty would work pretty good against them. Will they have the required 30 min unmolested to be in dug-in posture? Range of MILAN is 2000 m. T64 has a 6000 m range. BMP-2 has a 4000 m range. Does the terrain permit you defending so that he only gets shots at 2000 m or closer? Is it restrictive enough that the inf is only attacked by a single bn at a time? Is that inf co in front of the tank bn or on its flank?

How many ATGM systems? A MILAN can crank out, what, 3 rds per minute? Assaulting armor would be doing around 20 KPH, so they close that 2000 m in 6 min or so. You got 39 tanks coming at you (3 line companies) and you're going to lose some MILANs as they close. And not all missiles will hit and kill. And there's other targets they will fire their missiles at (recon BRDM, ADA, etc). 6 MILAN? 7?

In reality, it is doable, but very difficult and you need the right conditions. Same deal in this game.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to calgar)

Post #: 11

RE: NATO Inf + how to hold cities - 6/13/2014 1:27:03 PM

calgar

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/5/2012
Status: offline

Thank you two for your responses! That's all I needed.

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 12