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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/13/2014 10:03:25 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Fair enough chicken boy

Rest of the world is a bit keen on it though, and the first negative post was by (I'm assuming) a fan of American football and baseball (sports which I like, but not like I love football)

Anyone suggesting its a snooze fest just doesn't understand it, especially the world cup

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

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Post #: 61

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/13/2014 10:18:58 PM

SenToku

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Interesting fact; They did run a survey asking; "Who will win World Cup?" in all the countries that participate. Winner; Brazil. Only in two countries did most ppl think someone else was likely to win; In Argentina where they placed they bet on Argentina (which has some merit) and in USA, where they though USA will win.

Is this complete ignorance of The Game? Or is it just normal American optimism?

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Post #: 62

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/13/2014 10:48:42 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SenToku

Interesting fact; They did run a survey asking; "Who will win World Cup?" in all the countries that participate. Winner; Brazil. Only in two countries did most ppl think someone else was likely to win; In Argentina where they placed they bet on Argentina (which has some merit) and in USA, where they though USA will win.

Is this complete ignorance of The Game? Or is it just normal American optimism?

One from column "A" and one from column "B".

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Post #: 63

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/13/2014 11:18:22 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SenToku

Interesting fact; They did run a survey asking; "Who will win World Cup?" in all the countries that participate. Winner; Brazil. Only in two countries did most ppl think someone else was likely to win; In Argentina where they placed they bet on Argentina (which has some merit) and in USA, where they though USA will win.

Is this complete ignorance of The Game? Or is it just normal American optimism?

warspite1

Don't forget SenToku, most of those Americans that answered hadn't got a clue what the sport was that is played at the World Cup

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Post #: 64

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:08:53 AM

Cribtop

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My comments:

1) Many Americans (and Texans) are becoming soccer fans. Witness full stadiums in MLS (esp Seattle, Portland, Kansas City & Ohio) and full stadiums for the USMNT.

2) Many Amis are also now followers of the Premier League via cable. Come on you Gunners!

3) USA will not win, very lucky to get out. Sad as this is probably the best team we've brought to a Cup, just a horrible group.

4) The "penalty" in Brazil - Croatia was an absolute travesty. Should've been yellow for diving. The game needs to figure out a penalty for diving sufficient to discourage the practice. Players do it because on balance it works.

5) Netherlands just put down one hell of a marker today. Will be interesting to see how/if Spain responds.

6) Watch out for Uruguay, Belgium (I know, everyone's dark horse, etc), and maybe Colombia. Colombia so much more of a good dark horse if Falcao was fit, however. I still think England has a shot at getting out. Suarez allegedly can't play in the first match, that could make all the difference for that group.

7) To me, Germany, Brazil and, after today, the Dutch, are the favorites.

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Post #: 65

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:23:20 AM

panzer cat

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< Message edited by panzer cat -- 6/16/2014 1:37:55 AM >

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Post #: 66

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:47:26 AM

geofflambert

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The reason we can't win is because we just can't get the concept of diving. Jacques Cousteau; diving. Ingmar Bergman; flopping. In American Football the only reason you get dragged off the field is you count as a player against the total of eleven. We need to start training Russian wolfhounds to drag the players off by their jerseys, or the nape of the neck. American football players dive in order to spear an opponent. They don't flop for any reason. What they do is rip their own helmet off (which earns a penalty) and start beating the other guy's helmet. Hockey, of course, is superior, as you rip off the other guy's helmet before performing dental surgery.

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Post #: 67

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 6:23:26 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Soccer in the U.S is played by boys who's mom's do not allow them to play football, baseball or hockey. I'll pull for team USA, as the score scrolls across the screen during a Nat's game.

warspite1

I'm feeling that you haven't quite bought into the whole Football thing then?

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Post #: 68

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 12:31:02 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Soccer in the U.S is played by boys who's mom's do not allow them to play football, baseball or hockey. I'll pull for team USA, as the score scrolls across the screen during a Nat's game.

Huh. Not where I come from. Maybe you haven't heard about the concept of seasonal sports?

The US is a big place, so maybe don't speak for places you don't know so much about. The fact that you don't list basketball as one of your mom-approved sports during the NBA finals is also a bit odd.

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Post #: 69

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 12:55:37 PM

ny59giants

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As a transplant to SE America from the north (Vermont and Upstate New York) for over 20 years, I can attest to the fact that American football is the number one sport. Friday nights in the fall see massive number of people at high school games. Then, there is Saturday football with some colleges/universities having larger stadiums that some professional football teams. Soccer will never get into the top three here (American football, baseball, and basketball). Its popularity has grown due to cable TV, but until the USA can actually win a World Cup I don't see it becoming a national sport.

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Post #: 70

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:10:29 PM

Cribtop

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I have to laugh at an earlier comment I made. I was driving home from a short vacation to the coast yesterday and missed the games. I asked the clerk at a gas station about the Spain - Netherlands score and he said 5 - 1. I assumed he meant 5-1 Spain, then came home to discover it was 5-1 for the Dutch!

You can change my comment about Spain putting down a big marker to "Spain laid a big egg."

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Post #: 71

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:13:57 PM

traskott

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Don't understimate the power of the spanish team!!!

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Post #: 72

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:25:39 PM

Cribtop

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Oh, they're not dead yet, and if they have to lose now is the time, but a shocking result and you have to discuss the Netherlands now in any top 5 type discussion.

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Post #: 73

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 2:55:22 PM

traskott

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Even without referee "support", Brazil should win Dutch everytime, and there is still a lot of teams to be tested...

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Post #: 74

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 4:00:52 PM

bradfordkay

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Re: "flopping" or "diving". I believe that it should be a red card penalty and should be enforced more often - say whenever it happens and the player does not need to be replaced due to injury.

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Post #: 75

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 4:53:46 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Re: "flopping" or "diving". I believe that it should be a red card penalty and should be enforced more often - say whenever it happens and the player does not need to be replaced due to injury.

Really hard to enforce that. But if it's suspected there was a flop, maybe that player has to stay out for some minutes, like a penalty box in hockey. Have a referee review if they're down for longer than ten seconds, since there is plenty of time while he rolls and grimaces in false agony. Same for a tackle that receives a yellow card.

This would actually speed up the game because no one would actually want it to go to review if they flopped, obviously. If they really were brought down then you'd get a better idea of what card the offender should get. Might take away rough tackles as well.

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Post #: 76

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 5:09:47 PM

Chickenboy

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When hit by a high velocity rifle round in a soccer match, it's easy to understand why so many soccer players fall in agony. Witness this compilation for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf_puN-S5OM&feature=kp

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Post #: 77

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 5:12:45 PM

Chickenboy

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Or this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ZY9sJe0rY

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Post #: 78

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/14/2014 5:52:51 PM

bradfordkay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Re: "flopping" or "diving". I believe that it should be a red card penalty and should be enforced more often - say whenever it happens and the player does not need to be replaced due to injury.

Really hard to enforce that. But if it's suspected there was a flop, maybe that player has to stay out for some minutes, like a penalty box in hockey. Have a referee review if they're down for longer than ten seconds, since there is plenty of time while he rolls and grimaces in false agony. Same for a tackle that receives a yellow card.

This would actually speed up the game because no one would actually want it to go to review if they flopped, obviously. If they really were brought down then you'd get a better idea of what card the offender should get. Might take away rough tackles as well.

We are on a similar page here. My thought is that if the player is down for more than fifteen seconds then he is coming out of the game - for either an injury or a red card for flopping. This will speed up the game significantly. I know that getting kicked in the shins hurts - it certainly happened to me often enough in HS soccer. But that sort of pain does not prevent you from getting back up within a few seconds. The rolling around on the ground "in agony" is acting - trying to get another player carded. My theory is that if the player on the ground isn't injured seriously enough to come out of the game then he should be thrown out for his fakery.

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Post #: 79

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 12:14:53 AM

tocaff

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Just wait until you see Argentina play. They are known for playing dirty (fouling) and diving when a breeze hits them. Italy usually isn't far behind.

It's really tough to throw the judgement onto the official when he might not have the angle or been screened to see if a player dove or not. It's really rare for a player to be carded for diving.

The officiating so far at World Cup has left something to be desired.

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Post #: 80

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 12:21:26 AM

traskott

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Italia plays more fair than tradicionally they play. At current time every team plays more or less "dirty".

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 12:41:35 AM

panzer cat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: panzer cat

Soccer in the U.S is played by boys who's mom's do not allow them to play football, baseball or hockey. I'll pull for team USA, as the score scrolls across the screen during a Nat's game.

Huh. Not where I come from. Maybe you haven't heard about the concept of seasonal sports?

The US is a big place, so maybe don't speak for places you don't know so much about. The fact that you don't list basketball as one of your mom-approved sports during the NBA finals is also a bit odd.

I do watch the finals game and caught 2 of the U.S. games during the last world cup. I find the strategy interesting but the pace slow. Soccer mom's is a term used for overprotective mothers. Enjoying the NBA finals. Good luck in your campaign, I followed your last one.

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 12:53:04 AM

obvert

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Just watched Italy-England. Neither I thought played extremely well, and Joe Hart in goal is a liability. Both Italy goals were savable and he almost let Balotelli get another lobbing over him. Rooney muffed a number of good opportunities and one absolute sitter. Yuck.

Being an American and almost a UK citizen I've got a few teams I can support happily, but watching the Dutch has been the most fun so far.

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 3:28:14 AM

bradfordkay

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My condolences to our friends from across the pond. That's a tough way to start out in the tournament.

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Post #: 84

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 3:48:36 AM

Cribtop

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RE England - Italy. Really disappointing performance by the 3 Lions after Costa Rica handed them a golden opportunity to get out of the group. Even a draw would've been fine vs Italy but they let in a soft goal and don't know what to do with all the speed that I thought would serve them well in the tournament. Ugh.

I was watching the Colombia - Greece game with a friend who is a Colombian national at a local watering hole. He suggested a system of after the fact reviews in which video can allow referees to assess a yellow or red card for egregious diving, resulting in suspensions in later matches in league or tourney play. While this wouldn't affect the game in hand, that is almost impossible. The threat of losing players in the next game should have a real impact on diving, IMHO. I'm also ok with in game "penalty box" style systems, but fear they would create breaks in the action. I also think another referee should be added. In the current system, refs are very hesitant to award a yellow for diving, so the player either gets a "no call" or the desired penalty or free kick. Bottom line, players dive because on balance it works.

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 8:11:20 AM

warspite1

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A very entertaining game - probably just the right result, but a draw would not have flattered England either. Pirlo was just masterful as usual

On the positive side, England played SOOOOOO much better than 2-years ago (when their most regular pass was Hart - hoof up field - to Carroll's head

).

It's still in our hands (we qualified in 1986 after 1 point from TWO matches) but that was quite a get out of jail. We likely need to despatch both Uruguay AND Honduras or we will be headed home....

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 8:44:56 AM

KenchiSulla

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

RE England - Italy. Really disappointing performance by the 3 Lions after Costa Rica handed them a golden opportunity to get out of the group. Even a draw would've been fine vs Italy but they let in a soft goal and don't know what to do with all the speed that I thought would serve them well in the tournament. Ugh.

I was watching the Colombia - Greece game with a friend who is a Colombian national at a local watering hole. He suggested a system of after the fact reviews in which video can allow referees to assess a yellow or red card for egregious diving, resulting in suspensions in later matches in league or tourney play. While this wouldn't affect the game in hand, that is almost impossible. The threat of losing players in the next game should have a real impact on diving, IMHO. I'm also ok with in game "penalty box" style systems, but fear they would create breaks in the action. I also think another referee should be added. In the current system, refs are very hesitant to award a yellow for diving, so the player either gets a "no call" or the desired penalty or free kick. Bottom line, players dive because on balance it works.

In field hockey they have been using the video system for quite a while now. It is a real asset. This is how it works:

- Referee may call upon the video ref if he gave a goal and doubts if the ball crossed the line
- Both teams may call upon the video referee if they doubt the decision made. If the calling team is RIGHT they keep the referral and the decision will be changed. If the calling team is WRONG the game is continued and they lose the referral!

I've been watching the World Cup field hockey and absolutely do not see why this wouldn't work with football....

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RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 9:01:32 AM

GreyJoy

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Italy-England was a good match imho. The most intrateining one i've watched so far in this WC.
I've been surprised by the brits. They have played really well and those 3 attackers are damned nasty (and fast!).
This is a little italy compared to the ones we used to have, but this good start could really boost our morale.
Balotelli's lob and Pirlo's free kick could have been the most sensational goals in this WC, just after Van Persie's dive!

Having lot of fun watching this WC!

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Post #: 88

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 9:19:34 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Italy-England was a good match imho. The most intrateining one i've watched so far in this WC.
I've been surprised by the brits. They have played really well and those 3 attackers are damned nasty (and fast!).
This is a little italy compared to the ones we used to have, but this good start could really boost our morale.
Balotelli's lob and Pirlo's free kick could have been the most sensational goals in this WC, just after Van Persie's dive!

Having lot of fun watching this WC!

warspite1

No, no, no

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Post #: 89

RE: Really OT : World Cup 2014 - 6/15/2014 9:37:22 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Italy-England was a good match imho. The most intrateining one i've watched so far in this WC.
I've been surprised by the brits. They have played really well and those 3 attackers are damned nasty (and fast!).
This is a little italy compared to the ones we used to have, but this good start could really boost our morale.
Balotelli's lob and Pirlo's free kick could have been the most sensational goals in this WC, just after Van Persie's dive!

Having lot of fun watching this WC!

warspite1

No, no, no