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Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/15/2014 11:38:32 AM

apoll

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/20/2007
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Hello. I posted before about needing some instruction in playing this game well. And I got some help,which was great. I am also practising hard and reading all that I can. There was a post here on this forum that talked about basic ship formations and there was a great graphic that made it clear where to put the ASW first line, second line, how to divide up the escort tasks and, most importantly, where to out what where. A picture in this case was really useful in teaching how to place your ships for optimal defence, above and below the surface. Again, I would urge more stuff like that to help people like me; that's the first time I've seen such a diagram, and it would also like to know his to arrange a SAG to best effect, etc. Can you gurus post so some diagrams of your basic ship formations for various types of actions?

The second part of my post is to Baloogan. I am working my way through your vids, and they are great. Really useful. I posted on your site in the Highlights stream bit, saying I thought it would be fantastic if you might do an episode especially to teach the lessons you have distilled from all your experience; call it Baloogan's Wisdom, or lessons learnt...something like that, so we newbies could find in one convenient episode the key lessons on how to attack, how to defend, how to use proper EW, how to find and kill subs... This is just a suggestion...but one shiv hi reckon a lot of people would benefit from. Let's face it, this did a great and complex simulation, and part of the fun is working it out...but a hand every now and then would be much appreciated, and I can't think of a better way to teach the nuanced of this game than a video of Baloogan's standard (well, live chat I suppose is also good...but a video would enable viewing at leisure.)

Thank you.

Apoll

Post #: 1

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/16/2014 11:58:19 AM

abs0lut.zer0

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Joined: 6/16/2014
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hey apoll

i have to agree with most of your post.
i have had a loong time fascination [20+ years] with naval combat sims.. have been through harpoon 1,2,3 and dangerous waters and fleet command and STILL have not a clue what i am doing

.

there is a general perception out there [i think], that in this genre you "should" have some sense of what you're doing.

there ARE resources out there to help with newbies but they generally involve lots and lots of reading and i think that is the "side effect" of this genre and most of us just want to get into the action, so the sooner we get past the reading the better.

so the only thing i have to add to your plea is more videos pleazzzz :o)

.

p.s.[some where on this forum someone said a good place to start is reading "guide to naval warfare" from the harpoon 2 manual, so maybe start there?]

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Post #: 2

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/16/2014 1:04:58 PM

apoll

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/20/2007
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Yea, it is not easy getting good at this simulation. Bit like stumbling around trying yo try your balance...takes a while to learn. There was a post under mine two or so below which was about ship formations...and included a graphic: really helpful for working out where to out what chips SNCC Helios where, and how far from high clue assets. Wish there was more of this. And Baloogan really need to do a single distillation bid of all his key lessons; they are grist vids and really helpful. Other than trawling for tips, best to,pipe up and Adkins a question, and hope someone who is a guru will noticed and respond. When they do, good tips are passed. I'll check it the harpoon manual. Thanks. And if you haven 't checked Baloogan's vids, do so.

Apoll

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/16/2014 1:07:03 PM

apoll

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/20/2007
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Ps: I REALLY hate automatic spell check on my IPad!! Makes me look like a gibbering tool!

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 11:27:39 AM

Flankerk

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I suspect the difficulty on this one, is it all depends upon the situation you are in?
There isn't really an easy answer to what is the best tactic in any particular scenario. Individuals often adopt methods that are quite particular in style to them.

Are there specific areas that cause a lot of grief, that could be covered here? I suspect you'd get a wide variety of differing responses to be honest.

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Post #: 5

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 12:46:07 PM

apoll

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Thanks Flankerk. Well, I know the basics...I can launch a strike and do the basics. So for me now it's all about getting good at the game so the AI doesn't always beat me. Rudd posted a graphic in this forum of how he sets up his ship positions in a TF...with where the first ring of ASW helos would be located...where to put escorts and by what type...and their distances. Seems pretty simple, but that REALLY helped me because it was the first time I had seen that sort of tactical advice given in a graphic. So...let's expand that idea: how would one set up a group with a guided missile cruiser as its base? Same formation and distances? What about for an ASW killer group? There must be different formations and approaches depending on what mission or threat one is likely to face. This is an unforgiving sim...I bet time spent in planning and thinking about the approach to take will be important; how should a newbie approach that task? That's the sort of advice/info I'm talking about.....that takes me from the crude player to a whole new level. It would be so much more satisfying applying a properly thought put plan to beat the AI. I guess I can sort of learn all this stuff just by doing, but rather than just blunder in without a clue, I want to get better...

And I know I 'm not the only newbie around here searching for ways to get good at this game. So...as a newbie to this, to all you gurus out there, where on these fora do I find that sort of advice easily? That's what I'm after, and I'm willing to put in the hard yards studying stuff too. Can't find it in the CNAW manual; that's about basic stuff. Watched Baloogan's vids, and they are great, but one has to watch a lot to pick out the gems that exist in them...which is why I have suggested he do a special one pulling together all the 'wisdom' he has accumulated in all his vids for us newbies.

This all make sense? The debs have made a really hard and realistic sim...I think it deserves the attention of learning how to properly wield my forced around the place.

Apoll

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Post #: 6

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 12:57:25 PM

Flankerk

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I can see Baloogan doing a special on formations!

I sadly don't spend a lot of time of the formations really. I wouldn't change much between a cruiser type formation and an ASW formation. In general your highest value units need to be central. Other units staying within the AAW coverage but further out, often I'd only go for a relative few Nautical miles out. ASW detection primarily depends upon the speed of your surface units, so set some out to sprint and drift with towed arrays ahead of your formation. Your biggest asset for detecting subs is the sonobuoy helicopters , which again I set a relatively close patrol zone say 15 nautical miles or even less. An inner ring of dipping helo's on active sonar behind those.

Generally the scenario author will have set at least the ship patrol zones realistically.

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Post #: 7

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 1:03:44 PM

apoll

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Thanks Flankerk. Really much appreciated advice. I shall try it out.

Abs0lut.zero, you reading this? Some good advice guide your gameplay...

Apoll

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Post #: 8

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 1:08:54 PM

mikmykWS

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More documentation would be great but you can also open up the scenario editor and see how formations are set up there as well.

In general though think about threats and your unit's abilities to act as a team against them. So if there is a sub threat you may want to have a ship with a good passive sensor on the likely axis of attack and far enough out to detect a sub before it gets into weapons range while still being screened by the Anti air systems of the other ships.

Part of the Game is the challenge these decisions present and testing out your solutions.

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Post #: 9

RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/17/2014 9:52:18 PM

Vici Supreme

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Agreed with flankerk on the formation set up. Feel free to pm me next time you have any particular question.

Greetings

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/18/2014 12:36:32 AM

Gunner98

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I responded to Rudd in the other thread but here it is in a picture, I'll put up a SAG and an AmPhib Gp in a few min.

The key to all of this is mutual support (ASW, AAW, ECM, SAMs etc) and to maximize the advantages of your units while shielding the weaknesses. You need to experiment and you won't always have everything you need. Distances are dependant on weapon/sensor capability and the threat.

This is a classic early 90's CVBG before the reorganization to CSGs.

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/18/2014 12:48:21 AM

Gunner98

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Here is a SAG, same time period. The Knox FF in the piquet role is not as capable as the OHP in the CVBG so have had to collapse it in closer so the BB is within its CV ring.

Only 2 CGs and one DD to replace the 5 ships that were in the CVBG screen and escort.

Sonabouy equipped Helos only for ASW patrol.

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/18/2014 12:59:31 AM

apoll

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Joined: 6/20/2007
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Hey all who replied. Excellent! Thanks very much for all the advice. The diagrams are just what I, and other, newbies need. These diagrams should be collected somewhere in one place so they can be built upon and easily found. Any other tactical tips could also be placed there as well. I wonder if I could gather them into one document, along with any other tips and advice, and then post it somewhere? I might give that a go.

We now need Baloogan to climb out of his F-16 cockpit, stop fragging friendlies with AIM-120s, and do one of his great videos dedicated to tips and tactical advice gleaned from his stream episodes. Bologna, ARE you there???

Abs0ute.zero, check this advice out...it's good stuff. Good start to learning how to play this game...

Thanks again for advice from all. Much appreciated.

Apoll out

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/18/2014 1:00:48 AM

Gunner98

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The AmPhib gp is the most difficult because there are a bunch of High Value Units and a paucity of escorts. You want to hope that the area has been sanitized by other TGs prior to this group arriving.

This is more like a 'circle the wagon's' where your best AAW unit - believe it or not an OHP! is closest to your HVUs. The main task is to defend against leakers.
The ASW Helo zone is off the map where the arrow is.

Now I am no expert on this stuff, these formations are just what I have come up with after reading and playing and comparing capabilities. A Brit TG will be different, as will a French and certainly a Russian, but this gives you an idea.

B

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/18/2014 2:34:31 AM

Rudd

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Apoll,

Just ask questions and someone will try to help usually.

We all do different things and have different ideas, and some tactics only work in some situations. Just try to put the assets you have to good use.

Agreed we need more community based strategy discussion and tips, when I come across anything good I'll post in the war room.

Thanks Gunner for the pics and others for their thoughts

Hope we can continue to help, Welcome and good luck

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/24/2014 2:03:11 PM

Destry50

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All very nice info, but I can't even find how to get into the formation editor. All my searching has been without result.

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RE: Newbie Still a Needs Help - 6/24/2014 2:08:46 PM

Dimitris

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Game manual, page 55 or page 119.

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