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Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 6:48:10 PM

Gregorovitch55

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Of 32 colonies I am taxing four for a total tax take (according to the figure given in the individual colony panels immediately after the tax % and before the compliance figure) of 365k. Deducting 28k from this (for the -1k listed on colonies with 0% tax) I arrive at an expected colony tax income of 337k.

But the overall empire balance sheet gives my total colony tax income as 294k. Who or what has swiped my missing 43k?

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 8:30:51 PM

ComJak

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Corruption?

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 10:09:19 PM

Gregorovitch55

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I thought that might have something to do with it, but the corruption on Homeworld is 0 and the tax income there is actually more than my total tax income for the whole empire. So it isn't that, methinks.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 10:34:13 PM

Bingeling

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Corruption should be before the shown revenue. Are you sure you are not looking at the wrong value?

Try to use the windows snipping tool to screenshot the selection (lower left) window of your capital and attach it in an answer here.

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Post #: 4

RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 11:30:42 PM

Gregorovitch55

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Figures have changed a bit now. Hope this hotch-potch is actually visible......

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/22/2014 11:46:39 PM

Bingeling

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It is visible enough, at least :)

I have never paid too much attention to the economy details...

I get the total tax amount to be 389K. And if reducing by multiplying with the compliance, I get 336K and some change. Both are quite a bit more than the 304 tax revenue listed.

Could it be that the economy data is not live updated? Do you have other colonies with negative tax revenue?

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Post #: 6

RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 12:40:29 AM

Gregorovitch55

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yeah, I have another 28 colonies with 0% tax and they are showing -1k, so I am expecting the total to be 28k less than the total of those 5 planets. I was not expecting the tax figures shown above to be reduced further by the compliance % since "50% of 721k is 297k = 85% compliance" looks like it's already been deducted to me.

what is this compliance figure, how is it calculated and what can you do to increase it BTW?

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 12:45:34 AM

Spidey

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I think, if we apply the compliance percentages first, then the 389k drops to 336k. If we then take off the 1k per each of the 32 colonies, which makes very little sense to me but whatever, then we're at the target of 304k.

But don't ask me why that tax figure in the colony window would show tax revenue before compliance rather than after.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 1:04:37 AM

Gregorovitch55

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The problem I've got with that is that the tax figures quoted in the colony panels appear to have the compliance rates pre-applied: looking at my homeworld, 297 is manifestly not 50% of 721, but to make matters worse it isn't 85% of 50% of 721 either, that would be 306. So what gives?

Problem is these Dhayuts don't seem all that at business. As a human race I was swimming in cash by this stage, here I've got a serious problem 'cos I've got two human mega-empires looming on my borders who hate me and have fleets more than twice the size of mine - each. I need to understand how this cash is calculated and manipulated before they figure they can have a pop at me.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 8:01:09 AM

Bingeling

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I played Dhayut in my AAR, and they breed to darn slowly :)

I doubt they have special issues with accounting, though.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 8:15:57 AM

Spidey

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Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what's going on. One thing to remember, however, is that the game is certainly rounding numbers off a lot and that's probably happening in those screens too. Of course, this still doesn't account for the tax revenue being only 297k, since even 84.5% of 50% of 720.5 results in 304k, so I'm not at all sure what's going on either.

That being said, you should remember that you're Dhayut. Your growth is meh, your tech rate is limited, your economy is nothing special, but you've got some insanely good warp drives, which should give you quite the scouting advantage. And more mobile fleets count for a lot. Attack one place and when reinforcements turn up then simply go somewhere else. Humans have the typical crap drives for a very long time so your mobility advantage is going to be massive for a long time.

And don't be too intimidated by their fleet sizes. The AI tends to have many relatively weak ships and fleets with relatively crap weapon assortments and all you can tell is that they've got a total firepower that outranks what you've got, but firepower in itself isn't too important. It's simply the alpha strike value without any consideration of DPS or how easy it is to bring to bear. If you have a single fleet that can stand against any of their fleets then your mobility superiority (and presumably your much better ship design) is going to balance things out quite a lot.

By the way, one little sort of cheap thing that I've done to great effect against technically superior AI navies is constant movement of my fleet inside a star system. Move to the star in the enemy system. A bunch of ships will appear around you. Give a movement order towards some planetary object in the system. Your ships will move in the direction of that planetary object, attacking one group of the encircling enemies while leaving most of the rest out of range. Your ships will jump before taking too much damage but the small group of enemies that got crowded by all your fleet will have suffered a lot of damage. Wait for the enemies to start appearing around your fleet and then repeat the maneuver.

What you're accomplishing this way, aside from having a sensation of tactical combat, is local numerical superiority and while this game isn't Rome: Total War, having numbers on your side in smaller local engagements while denying an all out clash between forces goes a long way towards neutralizing the advantage of a stronger enemy. And yes, I'm essentially saying that you should go on the attack instead of being defensive. Humans grow faster than you anyway and if you're defending then you're not expanding like a nasty bug infection.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 9:09:32 AM

Bingeling

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This image is taken/created from my recent AAR games. It is the empire ready to get rich, and finally rich enough to bust a pirate base. As can be seen, pirate issues are not over yet...

Revenues do add up to 268K.

If I calculate tax result as revenue * tax percent * compliance percent and round down, the result is 62.

If I include corruption I get 61, but corruption should also be included in revenue. One problem here is that Arexie ends up with 10.46K tax, and is shown as 11K in the game. But that could match if it is either rounded twice (to 1 decimal and then to whole number) or if the revenue used is not the exact same that is shown.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 11:24:25 AM

Gregorovitch55

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So you are saying that the corruption rate is first applied to GDP and then subsequently applied again to the tax revenue? I will check that later, see if it accounts for the discrepancy.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 11:59:13 AM

Bingeling

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It is hard to say if it is counted twice, since the effects are small. Maybe I will find the save after catching a good colony that is ravaged by corruption. The revenue increase when creating a regional capital there was extremely noticeable. 50% corruption on a high revenue planet should be very visible.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 12:23:37 PM

Gregorovitch55

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Well, looking at Xubbahn it appears obvious corruption is not applied twice: GDP(157)*Tax rate(30%)=47.1. Apply compliance (84% we get 39.6. Apply corruption (47%) we get 20.9. None of these figures comes close to the stated tax revenue for the planet, 36, and I can't see any combination of these figures that does come close to it.

It looks to me like

a) The stated planet tax revenue is less than GDP*Tax Rate*compliance Rate and the shortfall is a different % for each planet.
b) The empire tax revenue figure given on the economic overview screen is significantly less than the sum of the stated individual planet tax revenues

So out of a total tax take of about 360k something or someone unknown is swiping about 55k of it, point b), and on top of that the stated individual planet tax revenues are being reduced by some arbitrary amount. If this was my business my auditors would already be very busy and no doubt a lot of people would be sweating.

< Message edited by Gregorovitch55 -- 6/23/2014 1:26:53 PM >

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/23/2014 2:33:12 PM

DeadlyShoe

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are there facilities or wonders on xubbahn or homeworld?

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/25/2014 1:03:17 PM

Jeeves

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55

Of 32 colonies I am taxing four for a total tax take (according to the figure given in the individual colony panels immediately after the tax % and before the compliance figure) of 365k. Deducting 28k from this (for the -1k listed on colonies with 0% tax) I arrive at an expected colony tax income of 337k.

But the overall empire balance sheet gives my total colony tax income as 294k. Who or what has swiped my missing 43k?

There is empire corruption in addition to colony corruption, that reduces everything across all colonies by a factor depending upon your selection for empire corruption at game start. With low empire corruption selected, it runs about one half percent per colony in your empire, up to a maximum around colony 128 or so. After that there is no further penalty. I'll be back in a few moments with a link...

Lonnie Courtney Clay
Edit : This is REALLY old data but see :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2619947&mpage=1&key=empire%2Ccorruption�

Things have changed a bit since then...
I'll be writing up some strategy notes within the next couple of months for universe. I'll cover it then...

< Message edited by Jeeves -- 6/25/2014 2:14:18 PM >

_____________________________

Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/25/2014 5:14:00 PM

Gregorovitch55

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Very interesting. I take it there is no display of this additional empire-wide corruption anywhere in the UI (apart from what can be deduced by adding up colony tax takes and comparing to empire balance sheet tax income)

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/25/2014 9:45:41 PM

Tcby

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I always appreciate your notes Jeeves.

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RE: Colony Tax Income - 6/27/2014 1:13:46 PM

Jeeves

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcby

I always appreciate your notes Jeeves.

Thanks for the compliment! I spend almost all my waking hours playing, so other than Elliot and Matrix staff I'm almost certainly the most EXPERIENCED player. Not necessarily the BEST, but definitely experienced...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

_____________________________

Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

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Post #: 20