History record keeping

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

History record keeping

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> History record keeping

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

History record keeping - 5/16/2014 2:59:07 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

What's the possibility of creating a "history" of various die roll elements that happen in the game?

For example, A list of all the weather die rolls. What side had initiative. How many impulses a turn lasted. How many BP's were spend by each nation. These kinds of things.

When playing the board game we would take notes on each game documenting weather, BP's, length of turns. Seems the program could do this kind of record keeping for us. That could be downloaded and printed in some kind of text file.

Would anyone else like to see this kind of history list?

Before its raised, yes i know this is not as important as updating the game. It does not mean we should not use our patient waiting for discussing optimistically future enhancements.

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

Post #: 1

RE: History record keeping - 5/16/2014 3:43:54 PM

Courtenay

Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline

Since right now I am recording all that information by hand, or as much of it as can remember, anyway, yes, this would be nice. As a priority, however, it is so far down the list, I don't think that it could be seen.

Bugs, netplay, two map scenarios, optional rules....

Not to mention AI.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

Post #: 2

RE: History record keeping - 5/16/2014 4:03:12 PM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

Posts: 585
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

It's also useful just for improving your play. How many impulses does S/O average? How is that different from M/A? Is it better to attacking the Spring or in the fall?

It lets you track who has more production over time, and when the tipping point if when the Allies starting to massively outproduce the Axis starts to happen. If you want to plan your big western counterattack for maximum effect, you'll want to know that.

There's a LOT of math underlying this game, and doing it just once, if nothing else, can massively help you as a player.

Post #: 3

RE: History record keeping - 5/16/2014 5:56:42 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Statistics can be fun. One thing about playing the boardgame with friends is talking about it afterwards in a laid back atmosphere.

Having those numbers and relating the importance is not work. Its part of the conversation. Rather than trying to remember what happened 2 weeks ago. A list would be nice to have.

Doing an AAR is also made easier. Having the numbers at your fingertips rather than pulling up the separate game files, if you saved them. Can save lots of time.

A history library would be nothing more than chrome. But useful chrome for those who find numbers fascinating in regards to this game.

For some of us the game is more than just play it and forget it. History should never be forgotten, even if its just a bunch of numbers.

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

Post #: 4

RE: History record keeping - 5/16/2014 11:21:59 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

For me the best part of a feature like this would be to remind myself of the dangers of observational bias.

ie... it would be nice to have hard proof that my 7 tac factor bomber really does hit its ground strikes 70% of the time, particularly after it misses 4 in a row.

(in reply to WarHunter)

Post #: 5

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 1:07:06 AM

juntoalmar

Posts: 601
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
Status: offline

That kind of record keeping I think is pretty straight forward to implement, and I'd be very interested too!

_____________________________

(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 6

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 1:08:20 AM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

For me the best part of a feature like this would be to remind myself of the dangers of observational bias.

ie... it would be nice to have hard proof that my 7 tac factor bomber really does hit its ground strikes 70% of the time, particularly after it misses 4 in a row.

My request is not to track every single die roll through out the game. But then again, i dont see it being impossible with time to do it.

Tracking the US entry would be pretty sweet.

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 7

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 7:13:17 AM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

For me the best part of a feature like this would be to remind myself of the dangers of observational bias.

ie... it would be nice to have hard proof that my 7 tac factor bomber really does hit its ground strikes 70% of the time, particularly after it misses 4 in a row.

Dice have no memory, otherwise I would have had a serious discussion with them as well from time to time.
Alternative is to generate your own pre-destined history of outcomes, and use that instead of the random generator of the PC. Don't memorize that sequence however - you will have the emotions of that 4-in-a-row miss even before you start that crucial battle

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 8

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 11:25:48 AM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

Oh, I'm sure that the RNG in the game is doing its job properly. My point was that it's human nature to start doubting the randomness following a low odds string of failures, and once that doubt is introduced, you will notice and remember the misses more than the hits. Seeing the numbers is just a great reality check!

My own personal bugaboo isn't even really the ground strikes - I always end up feeling like the side with the worse odds in air to air combat manages to come out ahead. Of course it's not true but every time an unescorted bomber gets cleared through while shooting down the 7 factor interceptor that just got built the previous turn, I feel cheated!

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 9

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 2:34:01 PM

Ur_Vile_WEdge

Posts: 585
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

My very, very first game of WiF: I wasn't even fully playing, my Dad was playing one of his friends, I was about 7, and watching, and wanted to play.

So they decided to let me play the Chinese, on the theory (I think) that I couldn't managed to wreck anything too badly. Japanese go to ground support an attack so I intercept with my puny 3 strength I-16, and they counter-intercept with one of their fighters, a 5.

Roll, he misses, I get lucky and get an AX. Decide to kill the fighter, sine come on, that 1 strength (air to air) bomber will just be easy meat, right? But the Japanese needed the mission to get through for the odds shift, so he sticks around. And then his bomber shoots down my fighter.

Which, if you think about it, is exactly the same odds of my fighter shooting down his, but it just seemed so unfair at the time.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 10

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 7:39:41 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

The german player in my first global war campaign had so many unlucky air combat rolls against my CW fighters and flak he insisted at one time I changed dice. I did but his bad luck continued and at one time he wanted to throw the dice out of the window.

(in reply to Ur_Vile_WEdge)

Post #: 11

RE: History record keeping - 5/17/2014 9:30:17 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Sitting in front of me is a dish with dice. When the AI is working. I'm planning to play a game with nothing but rolled dice and input the results where its allowed.

My favorite "bad dice" moment. When a friend got so fed up with a 6sided die he took a hammer to it. The first smack had it flying. After that it was encased in an old sock and pummeled. Needless to say the pieces ended up all over the landscape and street. good times

Frustration can be funny looking back on its effects.

Was also thinking of another reason to have a concise list of various die rolls to refer to. It could be used to build a library of stats among all the players. More reason to ask for this chrome addon.

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 12

RE: History record keeping - 5/18/2014 2:40:51 AM

LiquidSky

Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

One of the regular players in our WiF group has a masters degree in Statistics.

Whenever I initiated a sea battle, I would always roll the green ten-sided die because I said the colour green rolls lower. He would always reply that it doesn't matter what colour the die is.

Finally, after winning many sea battles by rolling low, I felt vindicated when he broke down and decided to use the green die. And then rolled a 1.

He said that it was pointless to track dice rolls in a game. It all depends on the circumstance. You could roll well and have it not matter as much as the one roll where you needed 'x'.

_____________________________

�My logisticians are a humorless lot � they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.� � Alexander the Great

(in reply to WarHunter)

Post #: 13

RE: History record keeping - 5/20/2014 3:34:25 AM

Pax25

Posts: 119
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

I don't think this game needs to go as far as tracking a history of every die roll, but a history of every battle fought would be nice. For example, Hearts of Iron 2 had this, where it showed the location of the battle, how many divisions participated on each side, the length of the battle, and the outcome. Way back in the day, I think my friends and I played a game of Axis & Allies where we kept a history of all the battles.

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 14

RE: History record keeping - 5/21/2014 1:42:41 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

Here's a good example...

The CW just flew 7 un escorted strat bombing missions over Germany and France. These are early/mid war bombers, with air to air ratings of 2 or less. All 7 were intercepted by the Luftwaffe with 4-6 air to air ratings in each fight. 5 were cleared, 2 aborted, and the 5 cleared bombers rolled high, taking out 7 production points.

Are the dice rigged? Of course not... but this is one of those times I wish I had hard proof that over time the air to air rolls balanced out :D

(in reply to Pax25)

Post #: 15

RE: History record keeping - 5/21/2014 2:19:04 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Here's a good example...

The CW just flew 7 un escorted strat bombing missions over Germany and France. These are early/mid war bombers, with air to air ratings of 2 or less. All 7 were intercepted by the Luftwaffe with 4-6 air to air ratings in each fight. 5 were cleared, 2 aborted, and the 5 cleared bombers rolled high, taking out 7 production points.

Are the dice rigged? Of course not... but this is one of those times I wish I had hard proof that over time the air to air rolls balanced out :D

there is a little dice devil who had a great time watching you!

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 16

RE: History record keeping - 5/24/2014 11:05:27 PM

Viktor_Kormel_slith

Posts: 372
Joined: 11/14/2013
Status: offline

I would like a history battles summary too but is a low low low priority request! About dice I remember two strange games..In one I prayed for my opponent got any good rolls they left the gme in 1941 after total no probable bad 15 rolls! and in the other me and my CW partner left the game in 1942 after an incredible sucession of f+++ good rolls from the beginning the game...after these games I though there is some kind of mindpower like star wars force that rules over the natural dice chaos!