Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Darkstar One

This hasn't even been WORKED on in months...

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ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkstar One

This hasn't even been WORKED on in months...

Hi Darkstar One

One of my favorite subjects Ahhh the AI. I assume you have been reading the posts by beta and regular posters about the condition of the game in general and the AI. Then again maybe you haven't, if I say anything it is construed as a war against people who prefer net play and they seem to have the ears of Matrix Ceo's on their side.

The powers that be put out their schedule for priorities and the AI is far in the future, first, all of the supply must be fixed, I agree, second the production must be completed, I agree. Third net play must be finished next, I disagree, a huge common sense mistake. I suggested a quick form of the AI for Barbarossa which should not be a big deal for a programmer like Steve to do as I am told that is his forte.

I have been told that the ship has sailed and nothing can change it's course by a power in the Matrix company [no names] How long will it take to clear up supply and production, I have no idea, how long to complete a viable netplay, I have no idea. Net play at its finest could take years, I really don't know. I estimate without any proof of any kind that the AI is a possible 5 years down the road, there are a few more people here that feel that way but most likely will not even go down that road.

And I am so disappointed the way things played out, suggestions abounded the forums 4 and 5 years ago about what might be right for all gamers, not just a few and these were IMO disregarded. And that is why we are here today with these questions, the forums are dead again [same people over and over posting no new blood] Some of the posters speak of confidence but I sense there is none.

I get in trouble because I speak from common sense not knowledge of the game, if they had done an AI on Barbarossa even a small one, there really is not that much there in the way of coding that could take a long time to do. I heard the naysayers over and over about this and they also get tired of me promoting the AI. The last thing I have to say on this is who was right and who was wrong, you make the call Darkstar.

Bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

In my opinion, even with the current issues, it's still the best wargame I have ever played. I don't regret a minute.

I'm sorry to hear that you are disappointed guys. Let's hope that project keeps on progress and eventually we have everything we are expecting from the game.

Cheers

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ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

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ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkstar One

This hasn't even been WORKED on in months...

Hi Darkstar One

One of my favorite subjects Ahhh the AI. I assume you have been reading the posts by beta and regular posters about the condition of the game in general and the AI. Then again maybe you haven't, if I say anything it is construed as a war against people who prefer net play and they seem to have the ears of Matrix Ceo's on their side.

The powers that be put out their schedule for priorities and the AI is far in the future, first, all of the supply must be fixed, I agree, second the production must be completed, I agree. Third net play must be finished next, I disagree, a huge common sense mistake. I suggested a quick form of the AI for Barbarossa which should not be a big deal for a programmer like Steve to do as I am told that is his forte.

I have been told that the ship has sailed and nothing can change it's course by a power in the Matrix company [no names] How long will it take to clear up supply and production, I have no idea, how long to complete a viable netplay, I have no idea. Net play at its finest could take years, I really don't know. I estimate without any proof of any kind that the AI is a possible 5 years down the road, there are a few more people here that feel that way but most likely will not even go down that road.

And I am so disappointed the way things played out, suggestions abounded the forums 4 and 5 years ago about what might be right for all gamers, not just a few and these were IMO disregarded. And that is why we are here today with these questions, the forums are dead again [same people over and over posting no new blood] Some of the posters speak of confidence but I sense there is none.

I get in trouble because I speak from common sense not knowledge of the game, if they had done an AI on Barbarossa even a small one, there really is not that much there in the way of coding that could take a long time to do. I heard the naysayers over and over about this and they also get tired of me promoting the AI. The last thing I have to say on this is who was right and who was wrong, you make the call Darkstar.

Bo

Bo,

Thank you for my laugh of the day. ROFL!!!!

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

*Sigh* Looks like it was a mistake to buy this one...

I could wait for either AI or Netplay, but to wait for so long after release for either one, or even for the single-theater scenarios, is unacceptable.

Note to self: don't buy any more complex board-game conversions from Matrix.

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ORIGINAL: Cohen

To be blunt I am sceptical an AI for such a game can even be worked out at any satisfactory level. The amount of variables are too many and the kind of AI needed is probably one in the style of the military computer seen in the old movie Wargames.

This is a game meant to be played with other human players.

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ORIGINAL: bo
.Bo,

Thank you for my laugh of the day. ROFL!!!!

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Bo, I quoted from your post so of course I thought it was you talking. What I bolded was FUNNY no matter who said.

You seem to think there is a choice to made (between Netplay and an AI), there isn't. To the best of my knowledge both are included in the project, and both at some point in time will be finished.

I cannot help but burst out laughing at some of the things you write (which I assume are your words). If these are somebody's else's ideas please give them credit.




< Message edited by flipperwasirish -- 7/3/2014 5:38:48 PM >

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to bo)

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ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
.Bo,

Thank you for my laugh of the day. ROFL!!!!

Gee flipper your still around and that's a good thing, I know your feelings on that which you wrote those ugly large letters. Some of my information came from another poster who said that this AI thing is Steves forte well ok lets prove it. And if you feel that the AI can wait 3 or more years please explain that to the hundreds if not thousands of computer war gamers seeking that one perfect war game which IMHO they have yet to find. And all the games they bought by mistake that are sitting in the non played for awhile BIN

I will gladly take anyone on in this subject if you care to, on one condition please take your head out of the sand and use some God given common sense.

PLEASE!

P.S. Which is better for the players and buyers of this game Flipper, a doable AI from someone who knows how to do an AI or net play, where it SEEMS people here no nothing about how to work it including Matrix and Slitherine.


Bo

quote:



Bo, I quoted from your post so of course I thought it was you talking. What I bolded was FUNNY no matter who said.

You seem to think there is a choice to made (between Netplay and an AI), there isn't. To the best of my knowledge both are included in the project, and both at some point in time will be finished.

I cannot help but burst out laughing at some of the things you write (which I assume are your words). If these are somebody's else's ideas please give them credit.

No flipper they are my words and my ideas even though I might get my 13 year old grandson involved as he is twice as smart as me about things. Thats if I can get him away from WOT.

Not being smart in any way flip but why dont you get involved with MWIF they could use some help with netplay

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 7/3/2014 5:54:33 PM >

(in reply to wworld7)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone and to the original poster,

I'm sorry you are disappointed at the lack of AI. AI was removed from the release plan years ago and as a result, AI was not promised for the initial release and we have not promised a timeline for when AI will be available. However, we do want to and plan to do an AI. I'll post below what I've written here and there before, including to bo who has been the biggest champion of AI among the beta team.

We are all working every week and doing everything we can to progress with our stated post-release strategy with the functional area fixes. Those are needed for solo, NetPlay and AI games, regardless of mode of play so they take first priority. This path was endorsed by most of our beta team as well as customers when we discussed it earlier.

Our #1 priority is to make sure that everything that was actually part of the release is 100% working. Any features that were not promised for that release (AI) have to wait. If we were to now stop progress on fixing bugs that affect all games and also stop plans to finish fixing NetPlay in order to implement an AI even for the smaller scenarios, I believe most customers would be quite unhappy. We have to first do our best to make sure the game works well in all areas for all the existing owners and then get the AI done.

Steve remains committed to working on the AI. It's probably his favorite area of programming. As long as his health holds up, I believe it will eventually be done.

We agree that a good working AI would be the single best thing we could do for the game, once the rest of the existing issues are resolved. However, if we had gone down that route and waited to release until an AI was finished, because of the limitations we were working under, there would likely have never been a release and no game at all. The only way to have a chance of eventually getting an AI was to separate it out from the original release so that the release could be finished within the available time.

Morally, the right thing for us to do is to make sure that everything we promised works well for all the customers first and only then to add more.

Regards,

- Erik

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Common sense? - re-read posts 14, 17 & 19.

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ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone and to the original poster,

I'm sorry you are disappointed at the lack of AI. AI was removed from the release plan years ago and as a result, AI was not promised for the initial release and we have not promised a timeline for when AI will be available. However, we do want to and plan to do an AI. I'll post below what I've written here and there before, including to bo who has been the biggest champion of AI among the beta team.

We are all working every week and doing everything we can to progress with our stated post-release strategy with the functional area fixes. Those are needed for solo, NetPlay and AI games, regardless of mode of play so they take first priority. This path was endorsed by most of our beta team as well as customers when we discussed it earlier.

Our #1 priority is to make sure that everything that was actually part of the release is 100% working. Any features that were not promised for that release (AI) have to wait. If we were to now stop progress on fixing bugs that affect all games and also stop plans to finish fixing NetPlay in order to implement an AI even for the smaller scenarios, I believe most customers would be quite unhappy. We have to first do our best to make sure the game works well in all areas for all the existing owners and then get the AI done.

Steve remains committed to working on the AI. It's probably his favorite area of programming. As long as his health holds up, I believe it will eventually be done.

We agree that a good working AI would be the single best thing we could do for the game, once the rest of the existing issues are resolved. However, if we had gone down that route and waited to release until an AI was finished, because of the limitations we were working under, there would likely have never been a release and no game at all. The only way to have a chance of eventually getting an AI was to separate it out from the original release so that the release could be finished within the available time.

Morally, the right thing for us to do is to make sure that everything we promised works well for all the customers first and only then to add more.

Regards,

- Erik

This should be an eye-opener, even for the diehards. I couldn't write a more conclusive epitaph for the AI if I tried.

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ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well maybe it is just me then. But I have been playing games without an AI for years now. So playing both sides is not that big of a problem for me. So I really do not understand the AI or nothing type of argument. Even games with an AI I would much rather play both sides versus the crappy AI that is in most games. I have yet to any strategic level game where everyone was praising the AI and how great it is. Every forum I have been on, and more than just Matrix, says pretty much the same thing, the AI is great to learn, but to REALLY have a good game you need to play multiplayer.

If an AI gets done for WiF then great. If it sucks then it will be no worse or better than what the industry has today. Then we will have people posting the same things here as everywhere else about you need a human to have a good game. So since humans will give a MUCH better experience than whatever AI will be developed, then getting the game engine fixed and NetPlay working is the absolutely the best approach to take.

To me the AI is just a way to learn, but NOT a way to learn to play well. And that applies to any game not just WiF. Which is Why Decision Games' War in Europe does not have an AI and will never have an AI. And you know what, it is still an awesome game. Which is exactly what WiF will be with no AI as well.

Of course I do not understand CrussDaddy's continued bashing of the game and Matrix. As I have said before Cruss can post some really good stuff about the game (and I really wish you would do more of that) that I really enjoy reading. But every time I read a post like the one above I just do not see the point. But I could just be too dense to get it too But as you have told me before Cruss, you do not have to explain anything to me (or anyone else for that matter) but just know some us just do not get it