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Tank guns and anti-tank weapons

 
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Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 6/28/2014 1:59:14 PM   
TaigaFox

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/5/2013
From: Mtl, Qc, Cdn
Status: offline 		Why all tanks, AT guns and infantry AT weapons are ALWAYS missing the first shot ?

I know it was done that way to represent the whole "spot, aim, fire, adjust fire" thing, but as much they cannot be right on target all the time I dont think that they have to miss all the time either. On longer shots its the kind of thing thats quite normal and expected but it gets quite frustrating when it happens at short and very short ranges, especially with piat's and panzerfaust's which are quite limited ammunition wise.
Post #: 1
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/4/2014 4:44:20 PM   
vobbnobb

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/23/2013
Status: offline 		Not an expert but back then the first shot could be for judging range/distance gauging as well. Also if your team becomes vets or elite maybe it lowers chance of missing first shot.

< Message edited by vobbnobb -- 7/4/2014 5:45:06 PM >

(in reply to TaigaFox)
Post #: 2
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/5/2014 1:49:45 AM   
CGGrognard


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/3/2013
From: USA
Status: offline 		The more experienced AT gun teams are more accurate on their first shot, but I find they get spotted very quickly leading to suppression then a dreaded rain of mortar shells.

_____________________________

"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to vobbnobb)
Post #: 3
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/5/2014 2:15:20 AM   
TaigaFox

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/5/2013
From: Mtl, Qc, Cdn
Status: offline 		I agree wtih the experience level of the troops having an effect on their accuracy and, as I wrote, I believe them missing the first shot at long ranges is quite normal and expected. But what bugs me is that it happens quite too often, in my opinion, at short and even at point blank, armor speaking. I'm no tank gunner but a large tank 40 meters from you seems hard to miss.
So the point I'm trying to make is that it seems to be programmed to miss X% of the time when ,maybe, some more variables should be put in the equation, like distance for that matter, in order to have something a bit more realistic.

(in reply to CGGrognard)
Post #: 4
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 1:56:00 AM   
dima

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline 		TaigaFox,

don't look for the real-life explanations (and don't listed to the ones who try to explain it with real-life, CC doesn't work like that) as it was just coded wrong in GTC.
Let's all of us ask Steve to fix it http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3639292 !



(in reply to TaigaFox)
Post #: 5
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 8:17:47 AM   
STIENER

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		since LSA... guns cant hit the broad side of a barn and matrix doesnt seem to want to do anything about it. were talking close combat here. ranges for guns are small in comparison to real life. a trained a/t gun crew or a trained tank crew could hit a target at 2000 yds with the 1st shot. read your history! theres tons of 1st hand accounts of german and allied tank crews hitting tanks at 1000 + yds with the 1st shot.
so why then cant a trained tank crew and most of the time a vet tank crew not hit a damn building at 200 yds with the 1st shot??

obviuosly theres an issue and lots of us are complaining about it...so why doesnt matrix fix it??

(in reply to dima)
Post #: 6
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 11:38:08 AM   
dima

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

a trained a/t gun crew or a trained tank crew could hit a target at 2000 yds with the 1st shot.

a little carping - even 7.5cm KwK42 or 8.8cm KwK43 didn't have 100% accuracy at 1000m during trainings. in combat 30% accuracy at ranges more than 500m was good.

but I totally agree with you about tank accuracy in GtC - it is absolutely rediculous and actually that's a game stopping bug and needs to be fixed ASAP!
guns should not miss like that at ranges less than 500m for sure. and up to 300m it should be something around 90-100% depending on crew quality for all the guns as they don't need to make calculations or adjust aim at such a range.

(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 7
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 9:38:50 PM   
STIENER

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		a little carping back...cause thats what we do theres numerous accounts on the russian front of tiger tanks taking out russian tanks with a 1st rd at 1000m +
blood steel and myth by george nipe.

but as you say this isnt really the issue here "guns should not miss like that at ranges less than 500m for sure."

im hoping more will post here to ask steve for a fix.

Steve....could you PLEASE make a fix / patch for this in the next patch for GWTC. [ PITF and LSA would be nice too ]

< Message edited by STIENER -- 7/6/2014 10:50:26 PM >

(in reply to dima)
Post #: 8
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 10:12:02 PM   
Troger

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 8/1/2002
Status: offline 		In CC, you rarely see tank versus tank at ranges over 250 meters. Most engagements are probably 50 meters to 150 meters. As others have already noted, tank canons are missing their first shot almost always and irrespective of range. Would be nice if it were fixed.

_____________________________


(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 9
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 10:41:58 PM   
dima

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

a little carping back...cause thats what we do theres numerous accounts on the russian front of tiger tanks taking out russian tanks with a 1st rd at 1000m +
blood steel and myth by george nipe.

I never argued it wasn't possible with Tiger/Panther at static targets, but will be very hard to achive against moving tank.
30% I've mentioned was combat accuract against moving target.
btw I've read account of the Soviet AT gunner who KO static PzIV at 1200m when he first received 100mm BS-3 guns during fall 1944.

quote:

Steve....could you PLEASE make a fix / patch for this in the next patch for GWTC. [ PITF and LSA would be nice too ]

prolly we should make a separate thread asking Steve ;)

(in reply to Troger)
Post #: 10
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 10:42:48 PM   
dima

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Troger
In CC, you rarely see tank versus tank at ranges over 250 meters. Most engagements are probably 50 meters to 150 meters. As others have already noted, tank canons are missing their first shot almost always and irrespective of range. Would be nice if it were fixed.

according to my experience not only the first shot but 9 of 10 shots at 100m :)

(in reply to Troger)
Post #: 11
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 10:47:24 PM   
STIENER

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		side note: you would really like blood steel and myth, Dima....exellent book on Kusrk

(in reply to dima)
Post #: 12
RE: Tank guns and anti-tank weapons - 7/6/2014 10:54:59 PM   
dima

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER
side note: you would really like blood steel and myth, Dima....exellent book on Kusrk

quote:

blood steel and myth

I have Nipe's book since it was released :),.

SUpport me there ;)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3651768

(in reply to STIENER)
Post #: 13
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