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OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/5/2014 8:37:30 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Is it broken?

I do not think so, but I believe there are errors in the programm that handles those sites.
I will post my observations (others hopefully too) and I hope TaggedYa will comment on some of them.

Post #: 1
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/5/2014 8:40:56 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		OILS - Size does not matter?!?!

at least not with the amount of oil/fuel stored.

an old Quote:
quote:

In BtR the size tells nothing ( or at least not what anyone would think) - Hamm OILS ( 1pointer ) has most often one of the biggest stocks of fuel and oil because it is close to big RRs and several oil sites....
it seems to me that the size(number) works different here: for me it is the amount of fuel and oil that could be handled on a daily bases


(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 2
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/9/2014 10:30:52 AM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swift

I will post my observations (others hopefully too) and I hope TaggedYa will comment on some of them.



We'll waiting...

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 3
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/12/2014 7:19:46 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Busy week, but I still had some time to Play around.

To me it seem that after you reach a certain amount of damage on an oil site, you will no longer be able to destroy oil/fuel on this site until it is operational again.

I think, that the problem was done in a beta exe, because in BoB oil7fuel sites did not stop burning for many many turns - and some testers thought that was not right.

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 4
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/12/2014 10:51:41 PM   
Arkham

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		So if i destroy a lot of different oil sites will that still hurt, or is an oil/fuel strategy largely futile until (hopefully) a patch comes to fix it.

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 5
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/13/2014 1:29:40 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I would not hold my breath waiting for a patch.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Arkham)
Post #: 6
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/13/2014 12:03:43 PM   
Dobey455

 

Posts: 445
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swift

Busy week, but I still had some time to Play around.

To me it seem that after you reach a certain amount of damage on an oil site, you will no longer be able to destroy oil/fuel on this site until it is operational again.

I think, that the problem was done in a beta exe, because in BoB oil7fuel sites did not stop burning for many many turns - and some testers thought that was not right.


So do you think the best way to cripple oil would be to hit storage site many times with "small-ish" raids so as tio cause some damage and destroy some fuel, but not to cripple the site?

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 7
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/22/2014 8:59:51 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		I spent some time looking into the oil system. First, there is one. It's just broken.

I found one glaring bug. There is a "push" routine that moves oil/fuel out of a site. There is a "pull" routine that moves oil/fuel into a site. Both routines test site damage for the site that calls the routine but not the site that is transferred to or from. Thus 100% destroyed sites are still part of the net. A destroyed site will not pull oil in or push oil out but other sites can push to it or pull from it making its damage moot. Of course if you destroy every site on the map oil will no longer move. Duh, game is over anyway.

Damaged railyards effects oil/fuel transfer just as it effects production (I have the railyard effects nailed down tight but will need a wall of text to cover it) however oil/fuel has a base transfer amount of 10,000. Even if it misses for a few days because it tries to use a destroyed railyard it moves so much when it works that it doesn't matter.

In addition, it looks like they started to implement trucks. Locations that are 19 miles or less apart move fuel by truck. Even sites that have nothing to do with fuel. (This actually makes sense if you are doing trucks. Trucks do move through road junctions. 19 miles a day is a little slow though. But this means you can't attack the fuel distribution system by attacking the right railyards either.

I looked at the bomb damage routines in detail. There is NO effect on fuel or oil in them whatsoever. The loss of fuel that swift is seeing must be from fire like he mentioned and I haven't found fire yet.

SO my basic thought is still the same. The whole oil/fuel system is broken and is worthless as a target for any reason against a human. It is valid as a target against the AI as the AI will defend it. However, there will almost always be a useful target somewhere nearby that you could hit instead.

It is however a high value target for when you are massing points for the win.

_____________________________

TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to Dobey455)
Post #: 8
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/22/2014 11:50:16 AM   
Arkham

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, at least in the game I am playing now I have totally ignored any fuel/oil sites. Pity, I would love to see a oil strategy work. Back to grinding down the engine factories.

(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 9
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/23/2014 2:39:50 AM   
Arkham

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:



Damaged railyards effects oil/fuel transfer just as it effects production (I have the railyard effects nailed down tight but will need a wall of text to cover it)


Can you give the wall of text? Is doing a transportation plan viable?

(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 10
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/23/2014 5:28:39 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swift

OILS - Size does not matter?!?!

at least not with the amount of oil/fuel stored.

an old Quote:
quote:

In BtR the size tells nothing ( or at least not what anyone would think) - Hamm OILS ( 1pointer ) has most often one of the biggest stocks of fuel and oil because it is close to big RRs and several oil sites....
it seems to me that the size(number) works different here: for me it is the amount of fuel and oil that could be handled on a daily bases



I'm sorry, I forgot about this and should have made time to reply.

Old quotes, forgotten threads, especially anything from the development team, are worthless. There was an active campaign of disinformation on how things work. Even my posts from a year ago and more are very suspect because I was relying on knowledge of the Talonsoft version and what I was told of changes. The more I look the more I find that doesn't work like we were told.

Size (capacity) is important to everything in the game that does something and for the locations that don't do something it is a multiplier to score. There is a fuel/oil storage cap set by size. However, I will have to look and see if it is also effected by the push/pull bug. As a guess it probably is and will cause some interesting bugs if it gets larger than the limit of the variable storing it.



_____________________________

TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 11
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/23/2014 5:45:22 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arkham

quote:



Damaged railyards effects oil/fuel transfer just as it effects production (I have the railyard effects nailed down tight but will need a wall of text to cover it)


Can you give the wall of text? Is doing a transportation plan viable?

Short answer: Yes I can

Yes a transportation plan is viable. It, in fact, is probably the most viable attack vector we have.


_____________________________

TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to Arkham)
Post #: 12
RE: OILS/OILR/FUEL - 7/23/2014 8:05:43 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		In lieu of any support from the developers or Matrix, its a pity we dont have a michaelm (look at WITPAE forum) authorized to access the datafiles and maintain them.

Could be that lots of these bugs can be squashed, or workarounds found.



_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 13
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