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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat - Gateway to Caen >> Steve, please help us!!!!

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Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/6/2014 10:52:54 PM

dima

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
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Hi Steve,

You are our last hope keeping playing GTC ;)
Please fix accuracy of weapons against AVFs as that's a game stopping bug!

If you don't we will have to stop playing that great release and return to ****ty TLD (even with hard-coded reinforcement bug) as TLD is the the least evil of all the bad re-releases by now :(.

If you don't reply shortly, we will start to post negative comments on GTC on every possible web resource :).

Hope for your understanding and that you can share some of your valuable time and fix that problem.

Please support that inquiry to Steve by replying here!

Post #: 1

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/6/2014 11:47:52 PM

PztCrackwise

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/7/2014
Status: offline

I think if Steve goes through the "Hopefull fixes for next patch" thread, he will see what kind of improvements / fixes the community expects to see. I personally would like to see the multiplayer game crashing bugs getting fixed first. It is the single most annoying thing!

I really think this game has a lot of potential, but it definitely needs to get these bugs/annoying aspects fixed first.

(in reply to dima)

Post #: 2

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/6/2014 11:50:35 PM

Nomada_Firefox

Posts: 1327
Joined: 11/12/2001
From: Spain
Status: offline

quote:

If you don't we will have to stop playing that great release and return to ****ty TLD (even with hard-coded reinforcement bug) as TLD is the the least evil of all the bad re-releases by now :(.

Speak by yourself, please do not put to all in the same bag. I do not go to return to TLD. I do not see a big problem with the accuracy from AT weapons.

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 3

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/6/2014 11:50:59 PM

dima

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

I think if Steve goes through the "Hopefull fixes for next patch" thread, he will see what kind of improvements / fixes the community expects to see. I personally would like to see the multiplayer game crashing bugs getting fixed first. It is the single most annoying thing!

I really think this game has a lot of potential, but it definitely needs to get these bugs/annoying aspects fixed first.

They are into TBS now, so I believe if we don't push them (Steve) GTC will be same abandoned as COI/WAR/TLD/LSA/PITF before it ;).

< Message edited by dima -- 7/7/2014 12:53:23 AM >

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 4

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/6/2014 11:52:39 PM

dima

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomada_Firefox

quote:

If you don't we will have to stop playing that great release and return to ****ty TLD (even with hard-coded reinforcement bug) as TLD is the the least evil of all the bad re-releases by now :(.

Speak by yourself, please do not put to all in the same bag. I do not go to return to TLD. I do not see a big problem with the accuracy from AT weapons.

sux to be you, but yeah you've probably got used to such accuracy playing Star Wars...
keep on with 1946 :).

(in reply to Nomada_Firefox)

Post #: 5

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 10:52:20 AM

Nomada_Firefox

Posts: 1327
Joined: 11/12/2001
From: Spain
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If you do not know how edit a excel file, it is not my problem.

You have not supported to other people at reclamations like this other times and now you want speak by all the people. You have not right for this.

< Message edited by Nomada_Firefox -- 7/7/2014 11:53:55 AM >

(in reply to dima)

Post #: 6

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 3:23:47 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

Dima,

Thanks for your feedback. Weapon accuracy is fairly subjective when you experience it in game. I will pass along your feelings to Cathartes but I do not expect there will be significant changes in this area in the near future.

If some players want to create a mod where AT weapons are more accurate you can increase the accuracy of AP rounds for big guns in the weapons.txt file.

Steve

(in reply to Nomada_Firefox)

Post #: 7

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 3:44:31 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

thanks for the reply steve........we thought it was hard coded? or at least thats what i thought i read some where?

it really is an issue with allot of CC players tho. it would be great if an effort could be made to fix the issue. subjective or not....its pretty unrealistic not to be able to hit targets / large targets at under 200m with a gun rd.
and its not really the AP rd accuracy were talking here....yes thats also an issue...its u cant hit a building with a tank gun at 200m. that doesnt make for good game playability IMO.
why was this issue allowed to be brought forward in more than one new game of CC? it was never an in issue in TLD but cropped up in LSA and now all the new CC's.

< Message edited by STIENER -- 7/7/2014 5:05:24 PM >

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 8

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 5:32:39 PM

PztCrackwise

Posts: 50
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Actually, Cathartes replied to us on CSS that this gun inaccuracy thing was probably hard coded and recommended us to carry the issue over to you

I really hope you guys can fix this thing along with the other mentioned problems!

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 9

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 9:57:29 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
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There have been no code changes in the hit-determination between Panthers and Gateway to Caen, so if what you're seeing is new behavior in GtC I believe it is data related. Weapons.txt and elements.txt are the primary places where this can be effected in the game data.

Other factors that effect 'to hit' calculations are soldier experience, morale, and suppression as well as visibility hindrance (from smoke or terrain). The first shot at a new target is penalized, but as I said this component of the calculation has not changed between versions of the game (since LSA as I recall).

Steve

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 10

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 10:44:09 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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thanks steve...but what were seeing is not new behavior. some of us have been complaining about it since and including LSA. im sure your aware of that.

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 11

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 11:07:47 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
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From: Vancouver, Canada
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and im betting that its going to end up in your next CC...the bloody 1st.......a shame really

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 12

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/7/2014 11:21:10 PM

PztCrackwise

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Panthers in the Fog also had this behaviour as far as I remember. I was too disappointed by that game so didn't even bother posting it back then. Steve, you have actually confirmed that nothing in the code regarding that has changed since LSA. And that's what Stiener says also.

It means something has definitely changed from TLD to LSA and into PiTF onwards. That's the piece in the puzzle! What has changed in the code? If I have understood correctly this "first shot is penalized thing" was perhaps not present in TLD and previous releases, or at least was not set to have such an impact! If you could just revert it to previous TLD levels...

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 13

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 12:33:17 AM

TaigaFox

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From: Mtl, Qc, Cdn
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So the first shot on a new target is "penalized".

Now we know thats something that was actually implemented by someone and not just an akward effect of almost two decades of tweaking on an old engine.

If it was put there by someone, it means it can be modified right ?

Anyways I paid for that game and I find that "penalizing" thing very annoying... And by the way your game is barely playable multipayer, keeps on crashing\freezing for whatever reasons.

Customers can "penalize" too in the future. $$$

(in reply to PztCrackwise)

Post #: 14

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 1:19:39 AM

Platoon_Michael

Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Dima,

Thanks for your feedback. Weapon accuracy is fairly subjective when you experience it in game. I will pass along your feelings to Cathartes but I do not expect there will be significant changes in this area in the near future.

If some players want to create a mod where AT weapons are more accurate you can increase the accuracy of AP rounds for big guns in the weapons.txt file.

Steve

This is where I personally hate society as a whole.And can no doubt reinforce that as a whole society SUCKS!

On one side you have a group of people who make a game,market a game,sell a game.Even worse when you use a successful product and **** it up.

On the other side you have a group of people who purchase the game based on previous success then play the game and then report the things they don't like about the game.

Matrix) We made it based on what we thought what you would like in a game and what we Hoped you would like in a game.
Consumer) makes post about what is wrong with game.
Matrix) No response.
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer)waiting
Consumer) More posts from other people pointing out a still upset product.
Consumer)Now he directs his comments to the highest up in said company.
Matrix)I'm sorry you feel that way but I can direct you to someone else in charge of that area or you can change it yourself if you don't like it.
Consumer) Oh Ok I'd love to do that,by all means let me spend a 1000 hours fixing what you WONT.And what no one else will have unless they download a Mod.
Matrix..........................

< Message edited by Platoon_Michael -- 7/8/2014 12:02:58 PM >

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 15

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 3:10:03 AM

Tejszd

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
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Maybe LSA is the answer over PiTF or GtC???
- 1st shot kills can happen with AT/Tank guns
- 2 BG's can attack/defend a map (2nd actual provides units!)
- Direct connection without the broken forum multiplayer feature
- players can select individual units
- points can be setup for battles/campaigns (play like CC3/COI)

We lose the bigger map/tank graphics along with the better explosions but get a lot positive features back. Never understood why every CC game added things and dropped things instead of continuing to add to make a better game with all the options....

(in reply to Platoon_Michael)

Post #: 16

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 4:22:26 AM

mooxe

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Joined: 10/25/2003
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quote:

a better game with all the options....

This will be TBF. The Bloody Fifth.

_____________________________

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Join Discord for tech support and online games.

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 17

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 3:16:17 PM

SteveMcClaire

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To be clear, there has always been an accuracy penalty to the first shot. But prior to the changes in LSA this penalty was relatively meaningless since nearly every shot ended up highly accurate and thus being a hit, and the game data was compensating for this by having overly-protective terrain.

The current penalty is to cap the accuracy of the shot to the experience of the soldier firing the weapon. Or for teams with a gunner and a leader/commander (which is the case for nearly all AT guns and tanks with a full crew) the higher of the gunner or commander's experience. A soldier of experience 3 or higher firing a first shot is still going to have a good chance of hitting, assuming the base accuracy is high to begin with (short range, accurate weapon, big target, no terrain / smoke / night effects, target stationary, no suppression, no high stress, etc.)

In armor / anti-armor engagements, a first shot miss was quite common, and even occurred in situations where the range was point blank. How often this happened is something we could go back and forth on all day -- i.e. it is pretty subjective. The other consideration for keeping first shot hits from being highly accurate is for game play -- it's just not very fun to have your tanks consistently explode before you even know there's a threat out there. It can and does still happen, it just doesn't happen every time.

I understand that some of you want this to happen more often when you are playing the game. I am trying to suggest ways you can get the experience you would like with the game as it exists. And that is by modding the data. But this behavior is not a bug and thus it is not something we are likely to patch the game for. If / when there is another update to Gateway to Caen we can revisit the issue.

Thanks,

Steve

(in reply to mooxe)

Post #: 18

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 4:36:05 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
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so steve.....if your taking into account a BIG TARGET in the data calculation, then why cant you tweak that part of it when the target is a HOUSE?
my point in this thread isnt so much the fact that tank vs tank are missing on the 1st and 2nd and 3rd shot BUT that a tank or a gun will consistantly miss a HOUSE at near point blank ranges and miss it more than once or twice in a row....going wide...going over.
make the house a huge target in the data so we can hit it.
surely this cant be that hard to do???

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 19

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/8/2014 5:33:31 PM

Nomada_Firefox

Posts: 1327
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From: Spain
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quote:

Consumer) Oh Ok I'd love to do that,by all means let me spend a 1000 hours fixing what you WONT.And what no one else will have unless they download a Mod.

For increase the accuracy from at weapons, you do not need 1000 hours, more or less five minutes with your eyes closed.;)

From my perspective I do not see these reclamations as more than personal tastes from the players and in the past, these matters were resolved with the mods.

Now I can see clearly how most of the people in CC games does not know how edit them. Nothing strange when Sulla and Matrix previously killed the CC modding community when they hired all the modders for the new CC games.

The most funny from all this, it is how now after years, Sulla is releasing all the stuff never finished by the people which they were working for him, unfinished mods and more, in fact I feel how he does not know what is releasing because I could see a Kursk mod made for CC5 in the CC3 section.

(in reply to Platoon_Michael)

Post #: 20

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/9/2014 6:55:02 PM

SteveMcClaire

Posts: 4472
Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER
so steve.....if your taking into account a BIG TARGET in the data calculation, then why cant you tweak that part of it when the target is a HOUSE?
my point in this thread isnt so much the fact that tank vs tank are missing on the 1st and 2nd and 3rd shot BUT that a tank or a gun will consistantly miss a HOUSE at near point blank ranges and miss it more than once or twice in a row....going wide...going over.
make the house a huge target in the data so we can hit it.
surely this cant be that hard to do???

Targeting terrain is (and has always been) handled in a fairly generic way. And due to the way terrain coding is done in CC, there is no concept of a 'house' as a discreet structure in the old engine. It is just a collection of 'Wall', 'Door', and 'Window' elements placed next to each other.

Yes, it would be possible to make the calculations that determine where a 'miss' lands more complex and realistic -- making it so you don't get 'overs' when firing at a house, for example. But I don't think there are any plans to crack the code and do an update just for this. I will put it on the suggestion list, however.

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 21

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/9/2014 9:58:53 PM

Platoon_Michael

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So here we have two responses to this thread and Nothing to my thread about Hopeful fixes to the next patch.

How does that make you feel?

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 22

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/10/2014 9:13:02 AM

IainMcNeil

Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
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Hi guys

we always listen to feedback and you can see from the responses in the thread we have not ignored you so any suggestion of that is very unfair to the team. We simply don't agree with you that the chance to hit logic is broken. This feedback has come from a handful of people out of the thousands who play the game. You might think it should be different but that a personal opinion we don't agree. We think it works well and realistically as it is. We are not going to make changes we don't agree with as that would be crazy.

However as we always want people to enjoy the game as much as possible we have suggested ways you can mod the data if you prefer to have things work differently but we are not going to make the requested changes as we feel they are detrimental to gameplay.

I hope you can understand and enjoy the game however you decide to play it!

The Matrix Team

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Platoon_Michael)

Post #: 23

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/10/2014 12:06:01 PM

Nomada_Firefox

Posts: 1327
Joined: 11/12/2001
From: Spain
Status: offline

Nothing strange. I agree with Iain opinion. If they had been following all the personal tastes, the games would be crazy.

In fact I would like see to the people reading the suggestions from previous CC games because there are a lot of opinions like these. Some of them were followed and personally, it was a mistake, others were not followed but at the end, it is not the end of the world.

About if the CC developers ignore us, I do not agree, at most of the games, players are ignored at 100%, you do not receive a simple answer from the developers and the modders...well, they do not exist for them. Here, I have received a answer from the developers about most of my questions.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 24

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/10/2014 12:42:01 PM

v.Manstein

Posts: 148
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: London
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Trust me, Nomada_Firefox, we always listen.

(in reply to Nomada_Firefox)

Post #: 25

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/10/2014 5:16:48 PM

STIENER

Posts: 857
Joined: 1/7/2001
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

Ian
i dont agree that "This feedback has come from a handful of people out of the thousands who play the game".
look at who posts on these forums. its is only a handfull of people who post. the other thousands dont post, so you have no idea what they like or dislike.
the few of us that do post are on other forums and in the gaming community and interact with some of the thousands of other peopal that dont post.
i play 6 or 7 other people that DONT post and i cant get them to post. i have played CC with other people over the years that dont post and have gone on to other types of games because they didnt like some of the game breaking issues that we the posters have brought up, and you the game designers didnt fix.
some of these issues that were bringing up have been going on for for numerous games. that just boggles my mind.

nomada
you have the ability to mod these games so IMO your somewhat biased.

some of us like myself dont have the ability or the time to do this. some of us feel that matrix should actually fix some of these issues....after all we do pay money for a game that should be trouble free.

(in reply to v.Manstein)

Post #: 26

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/10/2014 8:43:25 PM

PztCrackwise

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/7/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STIENER

Ian
i dont agree that "This feedback has come from a handful of people out of the thousands who play the game".
look at who posts on these forums. its is only a handfull of people who post. the other thousands dont post, so you have no idea what they like or dislike.
the few of us that do post are on other forums and in the gaming community and interact with some of the thousands of other peopal that dont post.
i play 6 or 7 other people that DONT post and i cant get them to post. i have played CC with other people over the years that dont post and have gone on to other types of games because they didnt like some of the game breaking issues that we the posters have brought up, and you the game designers didnt fix.
some of these issues that were bringing up have been going on for for numerous games. that just boggles my mind.

nomada
you have the ability to mod these games so IMO your somewhat biased. some of us like myself dont have the ability or the time to do this. some of us feel that matrix should actually fix some of these issues....after all we do pay money for a game that should be trouble free.

I couldn't agree with you more than that! Well said!..

(in reply to STIENER)

Post #: 27

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/11/2014 3:37:29 AM

Platoon_Michael

Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hi guys

we always listen to feedback and you can see from the responses in the thread we have not ignored you so any suggestion of that is very unfair to the team. We simply don't agree with you that the chance to hit logic is broken. This feedback has come from a handful of people out of the thousands who play the game. You might think it should be different but that a personal opinion we don't agree. We think it works well and realistically as it is. We are not going to make changes we don't agree with as that would be crazy.

However as we always want people to enjoy the game as much as possible we have suggested ways you can mod the data if you prefer to have things work differently but we are not going to make the requested changes as we feel they are detrimental to gameplay.

I hope you can understand and enjoy the game however you decide to play it!

The Matrix Team

I know there are/were a LOT of complaints over at Steam as well.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 28

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/11/2014 3:47:23 AM

dima

Posts: 64
Joined: 5/6/2009
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Steve,

quote:

Thanks for your feedback. Weapon accuracy is fairly subjective when you experience it in game. I will pass along your feelings to Cathartes but I do not expect there will be significant changes in this area in the near future.

doubt it is data related as even with 100% accuracy and located at paved road guns still keep missing 7 times of 10 shots.
there wasn't such a problem in CC5 or TLD for sure.
will check the elements...

quote:

If some players want to create a mod where AT weapons are more accurate you can increase the accuracy of AP rounds for big guns in the weapons.txt file.

again, even when set as 511 = 100% accuracy guns keep missing 7 times of 10 shots at 100m at average .

(in reply to SteveMcClaire)

Post #: 29

RE: Steve, please help us!!!! - 7/11/2014 9:51:13 AM

IainMcNeil

Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline

Guys we are not planning to change the accuracy. I think a lot of it is that people only notice when they are unlucky. They do not get a true picture of what actually happened. Probability means that sometimes a very high chance to hit will mean 7 out of 10 miss. It also means a low chance to hit will sometimes hit first shot.

Also remember you have to hit then penetrate. Some of the shots you count as a miss are deflected or minor damage that has no effect on the target.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to dima)

Post #: 30