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I thought the Shadows were dangerous

 
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I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 1:36:22 PM   
ebonyknight

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/8/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I am new to this game. Got it when it first hit steam and this is a keeper. Best game I have ever played.

Anyway, after months of learning the game, learning to deal with pirates, superior civs, diplomacy, ship loadouts, mods, the FULL 9 yards, I finally tried a normal game with all the storylines. Did very well.

I dwarfed all the other civs and even came close to rivaling the Ancients. I had massive fleets of ships, well armed defensive satellites and space ports over each planet (as appropriate) and spanned an entire third of the medium universe.

"I've got this". I have won before, but not before allowing the Shakturi to come, so I decided to play the story line out. Got the grand alliance invitation and was ready to rock after dozens of hours of carefully building my peaceful "Federation of Mankind".


The next FEW MINUTES were a blur as the Shakturi used me as a speed bump on the way to the ancients. I was smack dab between the two. Where is all the tech that they Ancients promised, why aren't they laying waste with their fleets? They give me control of one fleet that I expect will help stop the Shakturi and they are a slightly bigger speed bump. A blur of messages pass fleet 42, 38, etc?!?!?!? are on their way to "x" system(s).

In a few minutes, I watched colony after colony fall, my generals, governers and scientists die in screams and pleas for help and the Shakturi scraping my homeworld off of their shoe. I stopped for the night.

It's not as bad as it sounds, though. Most of my ships put up a decent fight and my section of space was so big that their steam roller left a few good fringe systems to rally around. I plan to abandon my core worlds and regroup there and exterminate their planets while they are busy with the rest of the alliance. That's the plan anyway.

My question is, where is the Ancient tech and help i was promised? How so you stop an enemy that has a military power of 200k, when I am almost 90k?

I must admit, the game is great and progressing like the The Slaver Wars books I am reading. Great fun. I have never played a game that plays like such a space opera. I was a long standing Space Empires fan and thought nothing could get better than that. This game makes Space Empires look like a junior grade real time strategy game!

Anyway, are there more story events that can turn this around or is this it? I HATE to spoil myself, but I just can't see a way to win, before I get back to rallying the colonies tonight against the Cylons...er Shakturi.

Anyway, I guess my real question is (without spoiling if possible), are there further story events that will even things out or is this just it. Win or die with what I have? If so (no further plot events) how do I possibly come back from this?

Damn, what a game!
Post #: 1
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 2:12:11 PM   
DeadlyShoe


Posts: 217
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline 		Did you actually go through the Galactic History plot? That is, the plot that involves exploring a number of beacon'd locations around the galaxy. There's a pretty substantial reward at the end if you haven't done it yet.

If you've got any Mechanoid ships left, you can try dismantling them for tech.

Otherwise I'd say you're pretty screwed ;)

(in reply to ebonyknight)
Post #: 2
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 2:12:33 PM   
Nanaki

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline 		Yup. Thats it. The Shakturi are rather difficult. First time I came up against them as a newb, I was unfortunate in that my allies were all useless one colony minors, so it was pretty much just me against the Shakturi. Of course, it probably would not have mattered as I was the only race that had the technology to damage the Shakturi, and only barely, as was proven when I bribed the Ketarov to declare war and, despite having roughly 50 colonies, they were getting trounced. I destroyed all their attacking fleets and even managed to defend my allies but I lacked anything capable of busting Shakturi stations and planets, so the war became a bloody stalemate. It also hurt I only had one weapon system and it was short range (Titan Beams), which gave my ships a hard time against the Shakturi's carriers.

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I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

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Post #: 3
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 2:57:52 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Once you join the Freedom Alliance, the Ancients should be willing to give you tech. Did you have tech trading turned off?

What species/government are you playing as?

Do you have many other factions on your side at this point? Have you also shared any advanced tech you have with all your allies?

With all that said, the Shakturi should be very tough and your first experience with them sounds about right in terms of balance. They are beatable, but you have to do just about everything right both leading up to their arrival and once the war begins.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 7/9/2014 3:58:03 PM >

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(in reply to Nanaki)
Post #: 4
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 3:47:41 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ebonyknight
I HATE to spoil myself, but I just can't see a way to win, before I get back to rallying the colonies tonight against the Cylons...er Shakturi.

Don't spoil yourself ebonyknight, there will still be plenty of ways to improve your strategy, and before long you'll want them buffed.

I wonder what would happen if I changed every Shakturi Military Ship Design Template to be Size 1500 ... ? i.e. including escorts?


(in reply to ebonyknight)
Post #: 5
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 5:19:40 PM   
Keston


Posts: 300
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline 		It sounds like turning tech trading off covers gifts from the Ancients as well as technical aid to allies?

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 6
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 5:24:13 PM   
Ceorl

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/11/2014
Status: offline 		Don't worry even after, according to Steam, 205 hours of gametime the Shakturi give me trouble.

The main issue with the Insect Sith is that friendly AI can't efficiently allocate resources for a long war, sustain a defense, nor apparently prioritize Death Stars attacking my worlds. As a result, 8 times out of 10 I watch my planets explode while my fleets chase the Shakturi in remote backwaters. Otherwise, I win by building an enormous advantage, say tech trading which feels so cheesy, although good luck taking the practically impenetrable Shakturi homeworld.

An aside (my musings), the late-game "surge" mechanic the Shakturi represent aggravate the steamroll problem by almost demanding absolute mid-game dominance in order to prepare. As a result while Distant World's end game tends to be stronger and more meaningful than other 4x's, were you're so powerful you get bored, it turns the middle game into a fail state test, stripping the dynamics needed for meaningful experiences.

Distant Worlds tries to solve this by providing race based victory conditions, but these have a limited impact since they impact only a portion of the overall assessment and rarely meaningful diverge from the core 4x mechanics. For example, the Atuuko positively score by being the dumbest Empire but since teching is no integral to the 4x process and the Atuuko composes only a fraction of the scoring index that its actual impact is limited at best.

Creative Assembly Shogun 2's Realm Divide was a similar problem. Because Realm Divide was an Armageddon meter which only advanced based on player success, and never declined based on player defeats, it encouraged a perfection mentality which made mid-game defeats nearly impossible to recover from. A better, if equally flawed, mechanic is Civilization's multiple-end strategies. You might be losing against another player based on his victory conditions but still progressing along your own with a reasonable chance of success.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 7
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 6:21:32 PM   
Nanaki

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 6/4/2014
Status: offline 		Ceorl, it helps if you manually control your military. Yes, it is a royal pain in the rear, but the AI really cannot handle military forces worth crap. It took losing a planet or two for me to lock the AI out, take manual control, and fight the war myself. I lost no planets after.

Infact, it has gotten to the point where I really do not trust the AI with anything. The AI is competant enough for a newbie getting his feet wet, but once you know the mechanics you are much better off doing everything yourself.

_____________________________

I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

(in reply to Ceorl)
Post #: 8
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 6:45:19 PM   
Ceorl

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/11/2014
Status: offline 		Oh I fully agree, but I like leaving the AI in control as I'm the kind of guy who likes setting up the dominos and watching them fall. Besides at some level the whole point of Distant Worlds to create a level of scale that should be beyond the ability of the player to effectively micromanage.

What annoys me is that the player influenced AI appears less effective than the purely AI driven system. Its a problem in almost every game and I can only surmise its due to player inputs preventing the programmers from creating specific trigger scripts which govern the normal AI.

(in reply to Nanaki)
Post #: 9
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 7:27:59 PM   
DeadlyShoe


Posts: 217
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline 		there's ways to use the ai effectively. for example, fleets are arguably more effective with manually set automatic stances than they are fully manually controlled.


(in reply to Ceorl)
Post #: 10
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 9:51:26 PM   
ebonyknight

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Once you join the Freedom Alliance, the Ancients should be willing to give you tech. Did you have tech trading turned off?

What species/government are you playing as?

Do you have many other factions on your side at this point? Have you also shared any advanced tech you have with all your allies?


Playing DW Extended as Xhumans. Only two other races joined the alliance and they are of no significance. I can't seem to trade with the Ancients and I am pretty sure tech trading is enabled (I never disabled it anyway).

I started playing again. Apparently the second strike to finish me off was inbound, when I last quit. My homeworld is building a new shipyard, but it won't last and where I just retreated to is gone.

Ancients ain't trading nothing. Frakkin toasters. I found the dark way govt, long time ago (never used it). I shoulda joined the Shakturi.

Checked my settings. Started another custom and tech trading is enabled.

< Message edited by ebonyknight -- 7/9/2014 11:13:07 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 11
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 9:59:15 PM   
ebonyknight

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Don't worry even after, according to Steam, 205 hours of gametime the Shakturi give me trouble.


246 logged. Told ya, I tried to learn the ropes before trying it.

I have no life.

(in reply to Ceorl)
Post #: 12
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 10:50:43 PM   
ebonyknight

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/8/2004
Status: offline 		Can you design a construction ship to repair a world destroyer faster, or will only one construction yard work on one ship at a time?

(in reply to ebonyknight)
Post #: 13
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/9/2014 11:14:27 PM   
Tcby


Posts: 342
Joined: 12/16/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Based on a test that somebody did a while ago, multiple construction yards does not speed up repair time. That having been said I *think* I recall Jeeves using multiple construction yards on for his derelict repairs, and he is pretty spot on re: mechanics...

Not sure!

(in reply to ebonyknight)
Post #: 14
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/10/2014 11:13:23 AM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcby

Based on a test that somebody did a while ago, multiple construction yards does not speed up repair time. That having been said I *think* I recall Jeeves using multiple construction yards on for his derelict repairs, and he is pretty spot on re: mechanics...

Not sure!


That was a long long time ago, turned out that although you can build multiple things in parallel (or could), each project gets only the rate of the one yard building it...

Lonnie Courtney Clay


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Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

(in reply to Tcby)
Post #: 15
RE: I thought the Shadows were dangerous - 7/10/2014 11:23:09 AM   
Tcby


Posts: 342
Joined: 12/16/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the clarification

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 16
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