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How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers?

 
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How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers? - 2/15/2003 12:36:25 PM   
Yamamoto

 

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Before the 2.20 patch Coastwatcher reports weren't reported to the Japanese side. I had no idea how much these guys reported. Even after I've taken the hex and all the colored dots next to them they still manage to report on my movements. You'd think with enough land forces in the hex that we could find them and kill them. Is there any way to do that in this game? If not, is there anything that can make them less effective (other than avoiding my bases in the slot where they seem to be hanging out) ?

Yamamoto
Post #: 1
- 2/15/2003 12:39:28 PM   
Full Moon

 

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I was wondering the very same question. Does anybody know the asnwer? I'm not sure if it's even possible though.

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- 2/15/2003 1:09:33 PM   
Drex

 

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Here's some history I'm not familiar with. Our Aussie members should be able to tell us how successful these guys were.some were caught I'm sure but I bet most of them survived. I don't think the Japanese took these guys prisoners.

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Post #: 3
- 2/15/2003 4:37:30 PM   
Raverdave


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Here is some info.....enjoy the read:)

[I]The Coast Watching Organisation of World War 2 was based on from the original Australian Coast Watching organisation which started in 1919 when selected civilian personnel in coastal areas were organised on a voluntary basis to report in time of war any unusual or suspicious events along the Australian coastline. The concept was quickly extended to include New Guinea (but not Dutch New Guinea) as well as Papua and the Solomon Islands.

The Coast Watching Organisation (WW2) commenced in 1939 under the command of the Royal Australian Navy through the Naval Intelligence Division, Navy Office, Melbourne. Lieutenant Commander R.B.M. Long was the Director of Naval Intelligence at that time. Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt, who was on the Emergency List, was personally selected by Commander Long, mobilised and appointed Staff Officer (Intelligence), in Port Moresby. He had operational control of the Coast Watchers in the north eastern area of defence of Australia. This included the Australian Mandated Territories, Papua, and the Solomon Islands. There were about 800 personnel in the Coast Watching Organisation in 1939.

Eric Feldt had resigned from the Navy before the war and was employed by the Government in New Guinea. He knew the Island people, the Government Officials and the Plantation Managers who all placed great trust in Eric Feldt. Because of Eric Feldt, many civilian Coast Watchers opted to stay in New Guinea after war was declared and other civilians were ordered to be evacuated. They volunteered to stay behind Japanese lines and risked being captured as a civilian spy by the Japanese.

In 1942 the remaining Coast Watchers were mobilised into Navy service.

The Coast Watchers, such as Paul Edward Mason who was located on the southern end of Bougainville Island, would monitor Japanese activities and maintain radio contact with the Combined Operational Intelligence Centre (COIC) located in a secret command centre inside Castle Hill in Townsville. COIC was part of the Area Combined Headquarters located at Green Street in Townsville.

The Coast Watchers included reliable persons such as:-

- Post Masters
- Harbour Masters
- Railway officials
- School teachers
- Local police
- Government servants and officials
- Missionaries
- Civilian airline pilots
- Patrol Officers
- District Officers
- Plantation owners

Many of the above Government officials would have ready access to radio equipment as part of their normal public service role. They would report on:-

- unusual or suspicious events
- sightings of ships, aircraft or floating mines
- other matters of defence interest

The Navy would supply the Coast Watchers with Playfair Codes for their communications. Pedal radios were initially used for some of the remote Coast Watchers who did not have access to radios in their normal Government job.

The Coast Watchers worked on a voluntary basis entirely without remuneration. The Naval Intelligence Division produced and distributed a document called "The Coast Watching Guide".

After General Douglas MacArthur came to Australia and was appointed Supreme Commander of the South West Pacific area, Commander Long called a conference in Melbourne of all the Intelligence groups. Eric Feldt attended this meeting. Commander Long outlined a scheme to form a unit from all the different Service Units of the different countries which would report directly to General Headquarters (GHQ). This new unit would be funded by all the countries involved and would carry out activities behind enemy lines using resources from all of the countries involved. Not long after this meeting the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB) was formed in June 1942.

The Coast Watch Organisation or Combined Field Intelligence Service then became known as Section "C" of the Allied Intelligence Bureau (AIB). The role of Section "C" was "obtaining all possible information about the enemy, his disposition, movements, strength, etc. through such agencies as the coast watchers, native agents and civilian operations".

The Coast Watchers in the South Pacific Area remained part of Australian Naval Intelligence. To avoid any confusion with the two line of command, Lieutenant Commander Eric Feldt was placed in charge of the Coast Watchers in both areas. He would report to GHQ, SWPA for the South West Pacific Area and to Naval Intelligence, Melbourne for the South Pacific area.[/I]

And this

[I]But the Japanese were turned back at Midway and the Americans seized the initiative, invading Guadalcanal in August. Galer's VMF-224 landed there on August 30. Henderson Field was under construction; few mechanics were in place; mud was everywhere. But the Seabees worked miracles with PSP (pierced steel planking), and the "Cactus Air Force" began taking its toll on the Japanese bombers. Galer's pilots scrambled continuously to meet the Japanese aerial onslaught. Typically coastwatchers stationed in the Solomons warned them of incoming Japanese attacks. "Forty bombers headed yours," was a well-rembered radio message from the isolated coastwatchers. The fighters of VMF-224, VMF-211, and whatever else Cactus could put in the air would take off, looking to gain altitude before the Japs arrived. When the shooting started, they went for the bombers. After the dogfighting, if ammo remained, they would strafe enemy ships or ground positions.

Although short of gas at times, Galer said the aviators would have been in worse shape had it not been for the efforts of the Australian coastwatchers. Without the warnings from the coast watchers, the marine fliers would have wasted valuable gas circling the field waiting for the enemy. The coast watchers' warnings helped save many American lives, and also had a direct impact on Galer himself when his Wildcat was shot down. "'Barbara Jane' couldn't swim, so I had to swim off and leave her. I was fortunate to encounter the coastwatchers who assisted me in getting back the next day," he joked. This was one of three planes Galer lost to the enemy during his two and a half months on Guadalcanal - after another shoot-down, two Marines swam out from the island to assist him; a third ended with a dead-stick landing on the island. Each time, Galer went back into action, and in less than a month he accrued 11 individual kills.

[/I]

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Re: How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers? - 2/15/2003 4:57:11 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yamamoto
[B]Before the 2.20 patch Coastwatcher reports weren't reported to the Japanese side. I had no idea how much these guys reported. Even after I've taken the hex and all the colored dots next to them they still manage to report on my movements. You'd think with enough land forces in the hex that we could find them and kill them. Is there any way to do that in this game? If not, is there anything that can make them less effective (other than avoiding my bases in the slot where they seem to be hanging out) ?

Yamamoto [/B][/QUOTE]

No, you can't kill them, upset them, or influence them in any way. They are part of the scenary, get used to them!:D

As to thinking you could find them, have a quick think. There is one guy (most likely) somewhere along 30 miles of coast (best case), or a 30 mile circle of jungle/poor terrain/small islands (worst case), who knows the terrain, has lived there for years, is probably known to the locals who aren't in a rush to betray him. You could spend months tracking each one. And then you discover that another has been activated 30 miles up the coast! He has a radio you could track, but I do not know how many direction finding kits IJN/A had in the area. Or how effective they were.

Anyone know what sort of % were actually caught in RL? I know that the coast watchers were still very effective months after they found themselves behind the lines. I do know that a number worked well right up until the war passed them the second time (going back the other way!)

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- 2/15/2003 9:05:16 PM   
Drex

 

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thanks Raverdave. What a lonely life that must have been not to mention stressful. I be those guys have some stories to tell - although there aren't many left by now.

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- 2/15/2003 10:14:55 PM   
Welcome!

 

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Twice, during the turn resolution i heard a single gunshot stopping the coastwatcher transmittion in the middle: am i the only one to notice that ? (i am not kidding).


----edit----

It sounds like a very short 1050.wav followed by a 1288/1390.wav. But perhaps it was just "luck" that the two sounds were following each others closely.

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- 2/15/2003 10:48:56 PM   
Drongo

 

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Posted by Drex
[QUOTE]Here's some history I'm not familiar with. Our Aussie members should be able to tell us how successful these guys were.some were caught I'm sure but I bet most of them survived. I don't think the Japanese took these guys prisoners.[/QUOTE]

Though primarily Aussies, the Poms and Kiwis also had coastwatchers in the region.

The number of Coastwatchers scattered through Northern Australia, New Guinea and the Solomons was about 700. About 40 were caught and executed, as well as 60 natives who were working with them.

Beside their intel work, they also rescued hundreds of allied pilots, sailors and even POWs. Obviously though, it was their reports of incoming Jap air raids heading for Henderson that is what they're remembered most for.

As much as I find having my fleet movements reported annoying (when playing the Japs), my sympathies still lie with the guys tapping away on the radio key.

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- 2/15/2003 10:50:10 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Welcome!
[B]Twice, during the turn resolution i heard a single gunshot stopping the coastwatcher transmittion in the middle: am i the only one to notice that ? (i am not kidding). [/B][/QUOTE]


Oh come on! :D


Admit it...you are pulling our legs. I could swear I heard Cary Grant's voice in one coastwatcher report though. ;)

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- 2/15/2003 11:02:19 PM   
Drex

 

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I believe Cary was screaming "Judy! Judy!" ( the bomber of course)

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I was woundering that toI guessI - 2/15/2003 11:08:34 PM   
boomboom

 

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I guess you have to live with them.
One of great things about the forems is,you have a question,someone has the answer.
I've sent for a company of comfort girls.I'm going to have them walk nude on the beach,lure them out.
"hey baby you got girlfriend ng?well baby I'm sooo lonely"

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- 2/15/2003 11:20:22 PM   
crsutton


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Few were caught and if caught, a single man operation was easily replaced. The Japanese expended a lot of effort to stop coast watching but to little avail. I suppose that the game also is abstracting the various native populations on the islands who for the most part remained loyal to their colonial masters. The allies got a lot of help from them as well. This is why the Japanese did not have an effective coastwatching network as they really were working in a more hostile enviroment, and by virtue of misguided policy toward the local inhabitiants, were not well treated when the natives had a chance to exact some revenge.

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Post #: 12
- 2/15/2003 11:27:37 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Coastwatchers are just one of the 10 zillions of "devices" that make this excellent game virtually unplayable as Japanese, against any half-capable US opponent. I think it's sometimes ridicolous how many little things go in Allied favor here. Japs had their "coastwatchers" and friendly natives too, but they are not modelled.

I'll say it again - this is excellent game, but I wonder whether coastwatchers really oughta been modelled at this scale? Their influence in the game is ridicolous - not a turn passes without 3-4 fantastically accurate reports by them! And Jap player can't do a THING to stop them.

Unless there is significant difference in experience level between PBEM opponents, I find this game is senseless if played as Jap, and am very sorry for that. Scen #17, #19, does not matter... Yea, Mogami might chime in, with his favorite winning Jap strategies, but I won't change my opinion...

O.

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Re: I was woundering that toI guessI - 2/15/2003 11:41:18 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by boomboom
[B]I guess you have to live with them.
One of great things about the forems is,you have a question,someone has the answer.
I've sent for a company of comfort girls.I'm going to have them walk nude on the beach,lure them out.
"hey baby you got girlfriend ng?well baby I'm sooo lonely" [/B][/QUOTE]


:D :D :D Lolol

You have a ring of authenticity on this subject.

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- 2/16/2003 12:34:07 AM   
Mr.Frag


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[QUOTE]I'll say it again - this is excellent game, but I wonder whether coastwatchers really oughta been modelled at this scale? Their influence in the game is ridicolous - not a turn passes without 3-4 fantastically accurate reports by them! And Jap player can't do a THING to stop them.[/QUOTE]

Use this to your advantage, YOU know the Allies are getting these reports, but ONLY from ships in coastal hexes. Nothing stops you from parking your entire navy 1 hex farther and waiting for the poor Allies to send a little task force to deal with the single AP that is crawling down the coast.

Knowledge is power, partial knowledge is dangerous. :D

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- 2/16/2003 12:40:43 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr.Frag
[B]Use this to your advantage, YOU know the Allies are getting these reports, but ONLY from ships in coastal hexes. Nothing stops you from parking your entire navy 1 hex farther and waiting for the poor Allies to send a little task force to deal with the single AP that is crawling down the coast.
[/B][/QUOTE]

That would be cool and dandy, but tell me how do I make level-6 naval base one hex from the shore? :D

I can live with coastwatchers in, say, Guadalcanal or NG, but having them in Shortland is, IMO, ridicolous. The island is so small, a naval inf. battalion would be combing it all in no time, finding any coastwatchers and destroying their equipment. Was there any cw on Shortlands historically?

But this is all moot. What I wanted to say is coastwatchers are just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs (unless there as HUGE difference in experience level between PBEM opponents).

O.

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- 2/16/2003 2:26:50 AM   
Yamamoto

 

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In a PBEM turn I just finished there were 20 coastwatcher reports. Basically, my opponent knows where every TF I have is if it comes within sigh of land for even 1 hex of movement during the turn. Since I can't set waypoints( not do I want that level of micromanagement) it makes it almost a sure thing that he will know where my ships are at some point during the turn. These guys aren't coastwatchers... more like spy satellites.

Yamamoto

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- 2/16/2003 2:49:02 AM   
denisonh


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[QUOTE]What I wanted to say is coastwatchers are just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs (unless there as HUGE difference in experience level between PBEM opponents).[/QUOTE]

Oleg, I think that is excessively exaggerating their impact on gameplay.

I think that the overly accurate allied bombing is far more disruptive to game balance than coastwatchers.

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- 2/16/2003 3:12:45 AM   
Knavey

 

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I think it depends on your opponent as to how effective coastwatchers are. If your opponent is someone who takes 15 minutes on a turn, you probably don't have much to worry about. If he is someone who takes an hour to do an average turn, well then you are probably screwed.

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- 2/16/2003 3:16:37 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by denisonh
[B]Oleg, I think that is excessively exaggerating their impact on gameplay.

I think that the overly accurate allied bombing is far more disruptive to game balance than coastwatchers. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, that's basically what I said. I said cws are "just one of the many things that make this game ridicolously easy for any Allied player, and incredibly hard for Japs"... :)

I, or we, could go on and on listing "devices" allied player has in his favor, and sure bombers are among them too...

O.

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- 2/16/2003 3:31:29 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Oh and another thing re gameplay balance and historic feel...

Allied players have fabolously brave and all-seeing coastwatchers, but why don't Japs have their recon planes on subs? I'd gladly compensate for cw sitting in Shortland harbor with a Glen recon aircraft over, say, Brisbane or Townsville. Even if Glen or his sub may get killed, while the cws remain undestructible.

Needless to say - sub based Jap recon planes actually DID fly over Australian harbors...

Japs are terribly handicapped in this game. As it is - in PBEM, this game is just a fine learning tool showing why going to war was frightfully BAD idea for Japs. (But we know that already.)

O.

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- 2/16/2003 4:08:35 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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Want an historical reality option...how about "Code Purple Broken" option. If so chosen the Allied player would know the approximate compostion AND destination AND arrival dates of most big Jap TF's. Then try finding someone to play IJN :)

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- 2/16/2003 4:34:46 AM   
denisonh


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Coastwatchers are nice, but as I use a great deal of naval search assets, they do not tell me much I don't already know.

The fact that B-24s take FOREVER to repair, I generally use them as search aircraft, along with the inexpereienced B-17 squadrons. Combine that with PBYs and mediums with a % of naval search, I can blanket an area and get good spotting levels on most any TF moving through the area, often during weather.

Then LBA blasts them out of the water. And the bombers on naval search often get a hit in now and then.

Intelligence that results in launched airstrikes is more effective than coast watchers.

And I am sure there are some SC#17 PBEM games going where the IJN is or has one. Based on Oleg's comments, the Allied player in those cases if a total friggin idiot.

I tend to believe this is not the case, and think the coastwatchers are not the decisive advantage that some imply they are.

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- 2/16/2003 7:39:35 AM   
Drongo

 

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Posted by Oleg
[QUOTE]I can live with coastwatchers in, say, Guadalcanal or NG, but having them in Shortland is, IMO, ridicolous. The island is so small, a naval inf. battalion would be combing it all in no time, finding any coastwatchers and destroying their equipment. Was there any cw on Shortlands historically?[/QUOTE]

This is what I remember from reading a book on the coastwatchers some time ago.

Coastwatchers were based in the Shortland Islands for a time during '42 but I don't think they were based there when the Japs were using it as a major refueling base.

However, right through the Guadalcanal period, the coastwatchers were capable of keeping a watch on the islands from posts in nearby SW Bougainville and Vella Lavella. Japanese ships could not use the Shortlands without having a good chance of being reported.

As to whether the Japanese could deal with coastwatchers, in '43 (IIRC) the Japanese launched a major army sweep of Bougainville to remove the watching posts. They appear to have been successful as the coastwatchers were forced to withdraw from the main island (by subs), only returning when the allies invaded in the latter half of '43.

So yes, maybe the presence of combat units at a location should have some impact on coastwatchers. Give you something to do with all those Jap garrison units.

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- 2/16/2003 9:05:23 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


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Coastwatchers should be made optional. Hell if Jap sub doctrine or US damage control is made optional (and PBEM players usually put them at "off" and "on" respectively) - then cws should be made optional too.

O.

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Post #: 25
Coastwatcher pic - 2/16/2003 9:28:14 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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I found a pic of a "Coastwatcher" (note the aircraft recognition silhouette chart in the background). It is now clear to me how they got them to work for free. I'll spot anyone who can identify the silhouette in the background one Rufe squadron in my next PBEM game ;)

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 26
- 2/16/2003 10:41:13 AM   
Yamamoto

 

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I'm just amazed how accurate their vision is at NIGHT! I don't think my DDs, CLs, and CAs are running with their lights on at night so how can those coast watchers spot them so well?

Yamamoto

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Re: Coastwatcher pic - 2/16/2003 11:11:15 AM   
denisonh


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cap Mandrake
[B]I found a pic of a "Coastwatcher" (note the aircraft recognition silhouette chart in the background). It is now clear to me how they got them to work for free. I'll spot anyone who can identify the silhouette in the background one Rufe squadron in my next PBEM game ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yea, and I believe that every time he made a "confimed report" they gave him the location of a bottle of whiskey hidden on the island.

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Post #: 28
- 2/16/2003 6:10:50 PM   
Raverdave


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
[B]

Needless to say - sub based Jap recon planes actually DID fly over Australian harbors...

[/B][/QUOTE]
Oleg, for your interest I have listed below the some total of JAP recon flights over Australia:-

QUEENSLAND

Toowoomba date unknown
Magnetic Island date unknown
Calliope River date unknown
Townsville 21 March 1942
Cooktown 21 March 1942
Townsville 11 May 1942
Horn Island 17 June 1942
Cairns 24 June 1942
Cooktown 24 June 1942
Horn Island 6 July 1942
Horn Island 7 July 1942
Horn Island 20 July 1942
Horn Island 29 July 1942
Cairns 30 July 1942
Horn Island 31 August 1942
Mornington Island November 1943
Mornington Island 14 January 1944



NEW SOUTH WALES

Sydney Harbour 17 February 1942
Near Lord Howe Island 22 February 1942
Sydney Harbour 23 May 1942
Sydney Harbour 30 May 1942
Sydney Harbour 19 February 1943



NORTHERN TERRITORY

Darwin 10 February 1942
Darwin 19 February 1942
Darwin 10 March 1942
Katherine & Pine Creek 21 March 1942
Darwin 31 March 1942
Darwin 15 April 1942
Darwin 22 April 1942
Darwin 27 April 1942
Bathurst Island 15 June 1942
Darwin (aborted) 21 November 1942
Darwin 22 November 1942
Darwin (aborted) 24 November 1942
Darwin 27 November 1942
Darwin 29 November 1942
Darwin 3 December 1942
Darwin (aborted) 11 March 1943
Darwin (aborted) 12 March 1943
Darwin (aborted) 13 March 1943
Darwin 14 March 1943
Millingimbi 13 May 1943
Millingimbi 15 May 1943



TASMANIA

Hobart 1 March 1942



VICTORIA

Melbourne & Port Phillip Bay 26 February 1942



WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Broome & Treville 2 March 1942
Broome & Treville 3 March 1942
Broome & Treville 10 March 1942
Broome & Treville 20 March 1942
Wyndham 23 March 1942
Drysdale 28 March 1942
Broome & Treville 3 April 1942
Drysdale 25 May 1942
Drysdale 26 May 1942
Drysdale 27 May 1942
Broome & Treville 15 July 1942
Wyndham 15 July 1942
Drysdale 15 July 1942
Broome & Treville 24 July 1942
Broome & Treville 25 July 1942
Broome & Treville 26 July 1942
Broome & Treville 27 July 1942
Broome & Treville 13 November 1942
Wyndham & Drysdale 13 November 1942
Swanbourne, WA 1943
Drysdale area 6 Nov 1943
Drysdale area 7 Nov 1943
Drysdale area 3 Feb 1944
Drysdale area 20 Feb 1944
Drysdale/Truscott area 20 Jul 1944



REFERENCE

Jenkins, David, "Battle Surface - Japan's Submarine War against Australia 1942 - 44", Random House Australia, 1992

15 page monograph from: Military History Section National Institute for Defense Studies
2-2-1 Nakameguro, Meguro-ku, Tokyo Japan
prepared by Retired (MSDF) Captain Kawano Teruaki on August 29th 1997
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn

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(in reply to Yamamoto)
Post #: 29
- 2/16/2003 10:17:37 PM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline
Actually there were quite a few flights. Perhaps not as many as would occur in UV but enough to simulate in the game. And of course there may have been more flights whose logs were lost.

(in reply to Yamamoto)
Post #: 30
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