How many mines is enough?

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How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 6:27:32 PM

corwin90

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Joined: 7/14/2014
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I assume the simple answer to this would be that you want enough to be able to build all your ships/bases and replace them when they are destroyed. Plus, you need resources to build civilian ships for each new colony. But can you give any extremely general suggestions? For example, if you have 20 colonies, do you look at the minerals in reserve? Then, based on that number, do you try to get a new mine for that mineral?

For example, with 20 colonies, I might aim for 200,000 fuel (Hydrogen / Caslon) and 200,000 steel. Then, for a resource that is used in practically everything, I might aim to keep 50,000. Then, for resources only used by a small number of items, I might not worry if I have 20,000.

Do these numbers sound high or low? Do you have any thoughts?

Thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 6:54:27 PM

ParagonExile

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Build as many mining bases at possible. Assume the worst case scenario always, and prepare for shortages.

(in reply to corwin90)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 6:55:45 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
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Hmmmm...

Since you asked

. And - keeping in mind that I am a rank amateur at DW

- here's what I do.

I manage my resources like Cox Communications manages its infrastructure. I tool along not paying much attention until I run out of something that I need to build something else. Then I find a source for that something and send a constructor to build a mine. Not terribly efficient. Can lead to shortages at the most inopportune times. On the bright side I don't spend a lot of time micromanaging things (I hate micromanaging things - that's what intellgent and competent employees are for) and I can spend more time macromanaging things which is much more to my liking.

Works for me. Kind'a. I guess. Never won a DW game since I got it a couple of months ago.

OH HELL! That's a terrible strategy. You probably ought'a wait for a min/max spreadsheet player that knows what they're doing to come along.

And I'll continue to have a stress free experience playing DW in blissful ignorance.

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(in reply to corwin90)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 7:56:51 PM

corwin90

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Building as many mines as possible seems like a sure fire way to quickly bankrupt the private sector...

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 7:58:13 PM

ParagonExile

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corwin90

Building as many mines as possible seems like a sure fire way to quickly bankrupt the private sector...

As long as you do not use Corporate Nationalism or set your taxes to 100%, the private sector will never run out of money. They earn ridiculous amounts of money.

(in reply to corwin90)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 8:24:59 PM

Kilravock

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This is an area I try to minimize micromanagement. I basically just build between 4-12 constructor ships and have them be automated. In the beginning I focus on getting 2-4 sources of everything then after that I let the AI take over. As long as the stations are not overbuilt and I don't over tax the colonies, I don't have an issue.

What matters more is not the amount of reserve or how many stations, but where the stations are located. If you have a port that doesn't have any nearby resource supplies, especially fuel, that port can have shortages and will take awhile for the needed resources to be shipped there. I try to make sure gas stations are built near all ports & potential front lines. I also intervene with the super luxuries.

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 8:49:34 PM

feelotraveller

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I on the other hand incessantly micromanage my resources but as Kilravock says what is important is the location of resources rather than total stock. To that end I semi-regularly flip through all my colonies (particularly spaceports) and check what is low/missing. Then I check for the nearest source(s) of that item. If lacking or overbooked I'll make plans to add another source near the location which has the demand.

One thing which can intervene is trade. In some parts of games I sell much more than I use of particular resources. (And sometimes buying comes into it too...) Just a matter of building a couple more mines, in both cases.

Fuel sources are a bit different. For two or three reasons I will build a (usually small) gas station on any fuel source. The first reason is I want fuel everywhere. The more sources the better so that my ships (including private sector) can find it nearby whenever they need it. The second reason is for pirate control. If I don't have a base at a gas giant they will, sooner or later. Gas clouds too, because at least you know when they set up shop. And the possible third reason is that I am usually a bit sneaky and deprive sections of the galactic community of fuel when I can, and then they come buying from me. And in quantity.

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 8:54:14 PM

corwin90

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Automate constructors? I didn't even know you could do that. I try to micro manage everything--even the private sector!! :)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 8:57:34 PM

Radishgast

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Regarding your building a small gas mining station at most fuel sources-

Do you do this regardless of the amount of fuel? Like even on a crappy 24% caslon gas giant? I'm actually not sure how fast those lower end fuel sources fill up their cargo bays, as I usually skip any resources with those lower percentages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

I on the other hand incessantly micromanage my resources but as Kilravock says what is important is the location of resources rather than total stock. To that end I semi-regularly flip through all my colonies (particularly spaceports) and check what is low/missing. Then I check for the nearest source(s) of that item. If lacking or overbooked I'll make plans to add another source near the location which has the demand.

One thing which can intervene is trade. In some parts of games I sell much more than I use of particular resources. (And sometimes buying comes into it too...) Just a matter of building a couple more mines, in both cases.

Fuel sources are a bit different. For two or three reasons I will build a (usually small) gas station on any fuel source. The first reason is I want fuel everywhere. The more sources the better so that my ships (including private sector) can find it nearby whenever they need it. The second reason is for pirate control. If I don't have a base at a gas giant they will, sooner or later. Gas clouds too, because at least you know when they set up shop. And the possible third reason is that I am usually a bit sneaky and deprive sections of the galactic community of fuel when I can, and then they come buying from me. And in quantity.

(in reply to feelotraveller)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 9:14:09 PM

Kilravock

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I try to avoid <50% sources if I am queuing up a mission. Some times you don't have much choice thanks to the RNG. In those cases you just need something that is nearby or you just don't have any other sources.

You can automate all state ships. Construction ships are state ships and they mainly build mining stations and repair stations when automated. You can even queue up missions for them when they are automated.

(in reply to Radishgast)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 9:17:21 PM

ParagonExile

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kilravock

I try to avoid <50% sources if I am queuing up a mission. Some times you don't have much choice thanks to the RNG. In those cases you just need something that is nearby or you just don't have any other sources.

I edited the resources.txt to make every source of Hydrogen and Helium (edited Caslon) 90-100% abundance on every gas giant <3

Helps the AI, reduces micromanagement and is much more realistic. I used to scratch my head in confusion over seeing gas giants without large amounts of Hydrogen and Helium.

(in reply to Kilravock)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 9:18:37 PM

Tryam

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My only issue with that is that it's not a Pure Queue it's a Ship based queue.

Simple example: If I only have 1 constructor and I queue it to build 3 Research stations. If I get another constructor before it has finished the first one (research station) it (New guy) won't build the Second (Or third)[first incomplete] task. There are times I love ship based queuing. (Refitting) but for the actual construction I'd prefer then to just get a task from the list when they finish with whatever I already assigned them :).

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/29/2014 9:32:31 PM

Kilravock

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tryam

My only issue with that is that it's not a Pure Queue it's a Ship based queue.

Simple example: If I only have 1 constructor and I queue it to build 3 Research stations. If I get another constructor before it has finished the first one (research station) it (New guy) won't build the Second (Or third)[first incomplete] task. There are times I love ship based queuing. (Refitting) but for the actual construction I'd prefer then to just get a task from the list when they finish with whatever I already assigned them :).

Yeah, it will queue the nearest ship at the time or ships with no current mission. So if you tag a couple station building missions, they can all go to one ship. The result is that it can take forever to finish those missions. I find it better to only queue a few missions at a time. If I really needed something done now, I will find a ship that is not at a build site, cancel it's current missions and then redirect it do what I want.

(in reply to Tryam)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 2:56:33 AM

feelotraveller

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Joined: 9/12/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Radishgast

Regarding your building a small gas mining station at most fuel sources-

Do you do this regardless of the amount of fuel? Like even on a crappy 24% caslon gas giant? I'm actually not sure how fast those lower end fuel sources fill up their cargo bays, as I usually skip any resources with those lower percentages.

I don't 'skip' them but they do get lower priority. If there is a nearby source with a higher percentage then that gets built first.

The percentages are a straight up linear scale so a 24% is half as productive as a 48% and only a quarter as productive as a 96%. But that is speed of extraction, they still have the same amount of cargo capacity...

(BTW a 24% Caslon with a single lowest tech level extractor will add 48 units of the resource every six day period.)

(in reply to Radishgast)

Post #: 14

RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 3:06:28 AM

Mortimer14

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98742895234905724389 mines should be enough... you can lose some and still get all the resources you need for a million ships.

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 6:44:45 AM

Sirian

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How much is enough? A difficult question as you may have more than enough resources in sum, but still experience shortages here and there.

For strategic resources I check the "unfulfilled demand" column in the resource planner and the price itself. It my empire has unfullfilled demand, I try to build a mine for that resource. If the price is higher than the minimum price I will look for a mining spot too. Keeping resource prices low is good for the state's and the private sectors koffers.

I will try to build a fuel mine in every colonized system or at least in the vicinity. This will lower the strain on your transportation network. You can never have enough fuel.

I usually have 2-3 constructors on auto and the rest on manual. The auto-constructors often run off to repair derelict ships or build mines on the other side of the galaxy, but thats the way the game is... The rest does what I say.

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 7:10:52 AM

Kilravock

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The reason why I automate construction ships, beside minimizing micromanagement is that after several years of having multiple sources of every resource and control of the super luxuries, you end up as a post scarcity society.

Your empire/pirate faction becomes The Culture. It's awesome when you think about it. You go from a poor resource starve civilization to utilizing the resources of a galaxy to do what you want. That is when you have enough mines.

(in reply to Sirian)

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 1:09:18 PM

Jeeves

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My goal is to have about two mines and two gas mines per colony by year 9, with about 50-60 colonies. About that time in the game I start conquering homeworlds and my civilian cash flow increases dramatically. So from that point onwards I just mine everything with at least a total of 140% from all resources at the world. That keeps my 150 constructors busy. I don't micromanage constructors at work any more since a recent upgrade dramatically improved the delivery of resources to constructors with a shortage.

For resources you need a stock of 30k+ at the homeworld, 10k+ at medium spaceports, and 6k+ at small spaceports. Also include 3k+ per colony that does not get a spaceport. That is your minimum desired stock. For fuel you need a caslon and hydrogen source near every colony and at least two of them near large spaceports. I try to have a source of every strategic in the collection range of all medium or large spaceports.

In early game you can get by without many mines if you design three types of state miner :
1) Escorts - 3 mining engines and three cargo bays
2) Frigates- 3 mining, 3 luxury engines and 5 or 6 cargo bays
3) Destroyers - 3 gas extractors and 8+ cargo bays

Later on I increase the cargo capacity and for the destroyers add three luxury extractors and in mid game design a destroyer universal miner wihich has three of all three types of resource extraction and 15-20k cargo capacity. For all miner designs I try to have a cruise speed of 35 plus so they don't take forever maneuvering on the work. They only get one maxos blaster or some such token weapon until mid game when I start using destroyers to capture pirate mines. For that design the universal miner gets firepower of about 120-180, shields 900+ and three or four capture pods.

Hope this info helps!

Lonnie Courtney Clay
Edit : My Bakuras Shipyards wonder homeworld builds a constructor every six days by year 9, putting only what is needed on the design. That lets me scrap the oldest constructors that lack repair bots. In one game I had 300 constructors building mines in year 11, but I don't make so many any more because by that date you have sufficient stock on hand to build everything required by end game. So I just do 150 constructors now, and retire my state mining ships when the established colonies are well stocked.

Edit 2 : None of my constructors are automated. When I get a new one, I use the expansion planner to select my next project, depending on what I need. When a constructor finishes a project, I use the galaxy map screened by resources to find the next project to do NEAR the constructor.

< Message edited by Jeeves -- 7/30/2014 2:44:39 PM >

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 6:27:47 PM

corwin90

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Thank you for all the great responses!

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/30/2014 10:10:58 PM

feygan

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/31/2014 5:09:51 PM

solops

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Too many mines, especially if heavily armed, will bankrupt you. If automated, construction ships will eventually stop building them. I see this as an area where a light touch and targeted intervention is best.

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RE: How many mines is enough? - 7/31/2014 5:33:46 PM

feygan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

Too many mines, especially if heavily armed, will bankrupt you. If automated, construction ships will eventually stop building them. I see this as an area where a light touch and targeted intervention is best.

Unless things have changed with the last expansion then mines have almost zero impact on your finances. You will pay an initial fee for building them, however unless you happen to have 40+ construction ships flying around then you should never be spending that much in any short space of time. After that they are free being commercial vessel they require no upkeep from your current wallet.

If you have got your fuel situation under control and got a good grip on your economy there really is no reason not to build build build with mines. Once I have my finances working correctly I make a habit of mining literally every planet and moon I have in my empire boarders. This has the effect of never having to wait on minerals for building, along with your commercial sector producing more freighters to ship things around, this then results in higher spaceport fees.

(in reply to solops)

Post #: 22