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F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/11/2014 11:23:57 AM   
STKS

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/29/2014
Status: offline 		Hello, just a quick request, The F35C and royal navy F35B have no option for loading the Koenigsberg Joint Stike Missile(despite the missile already being in the game). The JSM is being designed to fit inside the F35's weapon bays, so I would suggest three loadouts looking like this. Not having these loadouts make near future carrier scenarios very difficult to build

JSM (internal)
JSM x2
ASRAAM / Sidewinder x2

JSM (long range/external)
JSM x4
330 Gal drop tank x2
ASRAAM / Sidewinder x2

JSM (external)
JSM x4
ASRAAM / Sidewinder x2
Meteor / AIM 120 x2 (optional)


As an additional note, its looking increasingly likely that the UK and France will be adopting the MBDA Perseus in the 2020's as a harpoon / exocet / storm shadow replacement. It would be nice to see this missile added to the game, its a Mach 3 sea skimmer with two sub munitions which use laser radar (lidar)for guidance, it could be carried internally on the F35 or packed into VLS tubes. its the most likely candidate to arm the Type 26 global combat ship (also in game and missing anti ship weapons)


P.S - I had to remove the links to the JSM and the Perseus because my account isn't 7 days old.. They can be found easily enough through google though.
Post #: 1
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/11/2014 5:58:14 PM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline
quote:

Type 26 global combat ship


Hi STKS, welcome aboard. We've talked extensively about the JSM here, and loadouts for the JSF, so I'm surprised that there still aren't any loadouts for it in game. I know that Ragnar, the DB2000 developer and maintainer, is quite amazing at what he does, and I'm sure that it will get added in due time. The whole team are amazing and usually very quick about this sort of thing. I'm sure this is something that will be addressed very soon.

That Perseus ASM looks quite impressive, despite it's glaring paint job ( Can't help but to chuckle, "Red Rocket" whenever I see pics of it. *dirty American joke... ) Like the LRASSM, and the JSM, the Perseus hugely raises the bar for Western ASuW weapons. The Klub and Brahmos are indeed impressive- but the West's newest strike weapons are visions of the future!

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View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

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Post #: 2
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/11/2014 6:25:34 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		There's nothing more pleasant to us than helping a guy who accuses us of censorship on his very first post here.





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Post #: 3
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/11/2014 7:57:26 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I believe I added the JSM to Norwegian F-35As some time ago?

If I remember correctly, no other F-35 operators have signed a contract to buy the weapon?

2020+ weapons are highly speculative and tend to get cancelled. So need good info on dates and specs before adding.

Thanks

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Post #: 4
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/11/2014 10:47:21 PM   
STKS

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/29/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel
the West's newest strike weapons are visions of the future!


Agreed, Its been far to long that our answer to weapons like Moskit and Shipwreck have been... Harpoon.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

There's nothing more pleasant to us than helping a guy who accuses us of censorship on his very first post.






Ad Hominem. None of this affects the validity of my point. I stand by everything I said, in particular how dev's usually react to criticism on their forums. Your blunt reference to forum rules really helped with my issues though. thanks.



quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

I believe I added the JSM to Norwegian F-35As some time ago?

If I remember correctly, no other F-35 operators have signed a contract to buy the weapon?

2020+ weapons are highly speculative and tend to get cancelled. So need good info on dates and specs before adding.

Thanks


I Haven't checked the Norwegian F35, it wouldn't surprise me if they are the only country to have signed a contract though, with Koenigsberg being a Norwegian company. I would argue that just because countries haven't signed on the dotted line, doesn't mean that JSM isn't the most likely option. Even having harpoon or sea eagle as a stand in
would be better than no ASuW weapons for carrier aircraft ?

I can understand the reluctance to add 2020+ weapons, but having already added the Global Combat Ship surely you've committed to arming it with the most likely weapons? I mean, you've given it sensor's and signatures when the design wont be finalised until 2015. Currently the 2020 royal navy has carrier aircraft with no ASM's and frigates with no ASM's yet the Type 45 destroyers are given harpoons despite there being no plans (albeit capability) to do so ? I find it all a little confusing

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 5
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/12/2014 1:15:36 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		My guess is the guy that asked for the frigate insulted us heavily and acted buttsore in every response he made.

There really is much up in the air right now. If you can find more data to swing it please do post. We will act on it if it is valid.

Somebody actually posted on what the UK weapon will likely be a few posts away.

Thanks

Mike















< Message edited by mikmyk -- 8/12/2014 2:27:03 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/12/2014 10:18:21 AM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

... and acted buttsore ....





Remind me not to piss you guys off....


Regards,
Feltan

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Post #: 7
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/12/2014 2:22:18 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Okay there seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here...

I'm working with the guys to build the sim that *I* always wanted to play. We are not a normal game developer so the typical 'if I harass them enough maybe they'll listen / see me' method doesn't work. The sim is our labor of love, and if you enjoy the sim too then that's just an extra bonus. Should you want to help making the sim better so that all of us can enjoy it even more we really appreciate your contributions.

With this in mind, what exactly would be achieved by taking potshots and being impolite if not downright aggressive?

STKS, I get a feeling you're shooting from the hip and haven't done too much research. Think maybe you're forgetting that we've been doing this for 20+ years and to be frank you haven't really added anything new to the discussion :

The Type 26 Global Combat Ship was added to demonstrate what a bad idea it is to add platforms prematurely. As you pointed out we don't have too many details quite yet and it is only fitted with the most likely weapons. Fancy stuff that I seriously doubt will materialize in the way the manufacturer promises is left out on purpose.

Four out of six Type 45s will get Harpoons recycled from retired Type 22s. The launchers are being installed on the first ship as we speak.

It is spelled Kongsberg. The company is Norwegian, not German.

The Penguin Mk3 didn't sell abroad, even though for many countries it would have been the perfect weapon for their requirements. So I'm waiting with giving the JSM to other F-35 operators until the deal has been signed. This also avoids the problems related to deleting the weapon from the aircraft in the database, i.e. unbalancing scenarios where the aircraft & weapon is in use. I believe this problem is covered in the FAQ?

Sea Eagle was withdrawn 1999/2000, and has been out of service for almost 15 years. The only air-launched anti-ship weapon in the RN inventory is Harpoons fired from Nimrods. There are talks about retiring the Harpoons (both SSM and ASM variants) in the very near future.

F-35s can not carry AIM-9X or ASRAAM internally.


< Message edited by emsoy -- 8/12/2014 7:22:19 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/12/2014 3:25:08 PM   
ckfinite

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 7/20/2013
Status: offline 		One idea would be to add the LRASM to the 2021 SDB-2 F-35s (providing a comfortable margin on its 2017 entry into service date). The performance specs are known from the JASSM, and it is entirely reasonable that they would be added to the F-35, given that the current contract is for the F/A-18E/F. However, neither LRASM or JASSM has completed integration with F-35 (though it appears that Lockheed is working on it). I do think that adding an external LRASM loadout is more reasonable than JSM, nevertheless.

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Post #: 9
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/12/2014 10:39:03 PM   
STKS

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/29/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

With this in mind, what exactly would be achieved by taking potshots and being impolite if not downright aggressive?



Nothing, I'm actually surprised that I've had top defend myself from ****posting mods in this thread, you excluded of course. I'm here to talk about this, not waste my time with them.

regarding Type 26, I obviously didn't know the circumstances of why it was added, its a ship I'm yet to use in a scenario, but im sure you can understand my line of thinking regarding adding some future weapons and not others ?

Konigsberg is indeed a Norwegian company, my over reliance on auto correct ended up with me saying Koenigsberg

Regarding NSM, I wouldn't of said its sales are indicative of what is to come with JSM, why would the MoD buy a weapon in 2012 when the 2010 strategic defence review scrapped the aircraft that would carry it ? the late 20 teens will be the first opportunity to bring back a platform that can use ASM's, so it would be difficult politically to justify committing to a purchase now.

The Sea Eagle is not in service, as their launch platforms were removed from service, but without a replacement, the missiles were mothballed just in case they were needed in the future. No doubt an all out war scenario would see them mounted on the Tornado GR4. As an interesting side note regarding mothballed equipment - there is a British army warehouse in England that contains hundreds of thousands of SLR's in the event they are needed for... something. I dont really want to get focused on Sea Eagle though, my main source of enjoyment in this game is playing 'what if' scenarios, and having no ASuW capability on the F35 makes it very difficult to build certain scenarios. I'd be happy with Harpoon as a stand in for the JSM if you are reluctant.

Regading the F35, I'm afraid you are mistaken, while the F35 will not have the 'sidewinder bays' of the F22 The F35 can carry Sidewinder or ASRAAM internally, in each weapon bay there are two pylons, one for heavy ordnance up to 2000lb in A and C or 1000lb in C, there is also an additional pylon for mounting an air to air weapon. The F35 can carry up to 8 AIM 120's internally. Internal ASRAAM was actually one of the program requirements, stated back in 2006. I would be happy to show you sources and links, but I cant until my account is more than 7 days old. I might be able to PM you links ?

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 10
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 1:31:56 AM   
ckfinite

 

Posts: 377
Joined: 7/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

having no ASuW capability on the F35 makes it very difficult to build certain scenarios


LRASM would fix this, and it's even very likely that US F-35s will carry it, especially given that the in-game ones already have JASSM.

quote:

I would be happy to show you sources and links, but I cant until my account is more than 7 days old.


Mangle the URLs, so http://example.com becomes http ://example .com, then add a comment to the extent of remove the spaces. The URL detection is regex based.

(in reply to STKS)
Post #: 11
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 8:51:05 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		It seems that both internal Sidewinder and internal ASRAAM has been dropped from the weapons integration plan. The Command database was updated accordingly some time ago:

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.no/2013/02/combat-air-situation-f35.html
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.no/p/jca-f35c.html

Are several other sources out there to back this up

I'm afraid we need more info before we start adding anti-ship missiles to the Brit F-35. The Spear Phase 3 stuff looks interesting though.

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Post #: 12
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 10:13:27 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		Hi STKS on the Type 45 Harpoon issue there are been fitted with the launchers in the latter part of this year, the launchers are coming from the scrapped Type 22 batch 3's, so only 4 sets of launchers available and will be rotated around them.... how I know is because l'm still serving RN and a weaps system specialist
quote:

ORIGINAL: STKS


quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel
the West's newest strike weapons are visions of the future!


Agreed, Its been far to long that our answer to weapons like Moskit and Shipwreck have been... Harpoon.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

There's nothing more pleasant to us than helping a guy who accuses us of censorship on his very first post.






Ad Hominem. None of this affects the validity of my point. I stand by everything I said, in particular how dev's usually react to criticism on their forums. Your blunt reference to forum rules really helped with my issues though. thanks.



quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

I believe I added the JSM to Norwegian F-35As some time ago?

If I remember correctly, no other F-35 operators have signed a contract to buy the weapon?

2020+ weapons are highly speculative and tend to get cancelled. So need good info on dates and specs before adding.

Thanks


I Haven't checked the Norwegian F35, it wouldn't surprise me if they are the only country to have signed a contract though, with Koenigsberg being a Norwegian company. I would argue that just because countries haven't signed on the dotted line, doesn't mean that JSM isn't the most likely option. Even having harpoon or sea eagle as a stand in
would be better than no ASuW weapons for carrier aircraft ?

I can understand the reluctance to add 2020+ weapons, but having already added the Global Combat Ship surely you've committed to arming it with the most likely weapons? I mean, you've given it sensor's and signatures when the design wont be finalised until 2015. Currently the 2020 royal navy has carrier aircraft with no ASM's and frigates with no ASM's yet the Type 45 destroyers are given harpoons despite there being no plans (albeit capability) to do so ? I find it all a little confusing



< Message edited by .Sirius -- 8/13/2014 11:14:33 AM >

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Command Developer
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Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 13
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 10:59:27 AM   
Barny23


Posts: 122
Joined: 11/1/2012
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sirius is right about Harpoons.
Wikipidia confirms - 4 of the class will have Harpoons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer
Barny

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Post #: 14
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 4:39:14 PM   
Pergite!

 

Posts: 546
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: The temperate climate zone
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barny

Sirius is right about Harpoons.
Wikipidia confirms - 4 of the class will have Harpoons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer
Barny



LOL, Wikipedia confirms information from a RN weapons system specialist regarding RN weapon systems? I think you should reverse that statement somewhat

(in reply to Barny23)
Post #: 15
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 7:06:05 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		Heh when you are in the know before Wiki ie passed this info onto Ragner about 6 months ago, when I was on the Duncan!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pergite!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barny

Sirius is right about Harpoons.
Wikipidia confirms - 4 of the class will have Harpoons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer
Barny



LOL, Wikipedia confirms information from a RN weapons system specialist regarding RN weapon systems? I think you should reverse that statement somewhat



< Message edited by .Sirius -- 8/13/2014 8:07:11 PM >

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 16
RE: F35 Anti Ship Loadouts - 8/13/2014 11:22:10 PM   
Rudd

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: .Sirius

Heh when you are in the know before Wiki ie passed this info onto Ragner about 6 months ago, when I was on the Duncan!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pergite!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barny

Sirius is right about Harpoons.
Wikipidia confirms - 4 of the class will have Harpoons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer
Barny



LOL, Wikipedia confirms information from a RN weapons system specialist regarding RN weapon systems? I think you should reverse that statement somewhat



LMAO!


(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 17
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