Slitherine

quote:

Ground combat at Moulmein (55,55)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 19950 troops, 179 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 644

Defending force 11609 troops, 62 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 248

Japanese adjusted assault: 341

Allied adjusted defense: 145

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Moulmein !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2065 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 92 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled

Allied ground losses:
5194 casualties reported
Squads: 117 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 200 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 36 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 52 (49 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 13
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
Imperial Guards Division
55th Cavalry Regiment
112th Infantry Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
55th Engineer Regiment
55th Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion

Defending units:
6th Burma Rifles Battalion
4/8th Gurkha Battalion
4/14th Punjab Battalion
1st Burma Brigade
2nd Burma Brigade
Railway BAF Battalion
4th Burma Rifles Battalion
3rd Burma Rifles Battalion
9/11th Sikh Battalion
2nd King Own YLI Battalion
27th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
107th RAF Base Force
108th RAF Base Force
11th Burma Rifles Battalion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mundy





I'm surprised "Rings Around Rabaul" didn't ring a few bells. I think that was the short starter scenario in the old Avalon Hill Flat Top game. When UV came along, the old boardgame instantly became obsolete.


Ed-

quote:

Naval Gun Fire at Bataan - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

34 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
DD Hatakaze, Shell hits 5, Mine hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Harukaze, Shell hits 4, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
TB Kamo, Shell hits 5, Mine hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
TB Kiji, Shell hits 4, Mine hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Manila Bay Defenses firing at DD Hatakaze
DD Hatakaze firing at Manila Bay Defenses
DD Harukaze firing at Manila Bay Defenses
Manila Bay Defenses firing at DD Harukaze
Manila Bay Defenses firing at TB Kamo
TB Kamo firing at Manila Bay Defenses
Manila Bay Defenses firing at TB Kiji


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 202 encounters mine field at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Ships
DD Harukaze, Mine hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
TB Kamo, Mine hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
TB Kiji, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatakaze, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

Damage from mine hits is not applied until the end of the turn. I have had IJ ships and subs hit as many as nine mines without sinking
immediately. This is really annoying when they are more effective than minesweepers doing it the official way!

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

Damage from mine hits is not applied until the end of the turn. I have had IJ ships and subs hit as many as nine mines without sinking
immediately. This is really annoying when they are more effective than minesweepers doing it the official way!

That really surprises me - has a developer confirmed that? Some mines have less "effect" than others, and the variability built into the game is a lot more likely explanation that there being a way of treating damage from mines different from the way all other damage is treated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

Damage from mine hits is not applied until the end of the turn. I have had IJ ships and subs hit as many as nine mines without sinking
immediately. This is really annoying when they are more effective than minesweepers doing it the official way!

That really surprises me - has a developer confirmed that? Some mines have less "effect" than others, and the variability built into the game is a lot more likely explanation that there being a way of treating damage from mines different from the way all other damage is treated.

Right. Just as torpedo damage from a sub attack - even 4 hits on a DD - does not cause immediate sinking during that combat event, mine and shore battery fire racks up the damage but does not cause sinking until later in the round. Can't
remember if it is after each naval movement phase or after both naval phases are over. If an air attack or naval battle occurs involving the mine-struck ship before the end of phase, it will usually sink before it actually gets any further hits since these combats have
periodic checks to see if anything should sink.
Re: mine effectiveness - it is obviously set low since an IJN I-boat can take three mark 6 mines and not sink. Four or more will finally get the job done.
PS - since I was sandboxing to see what would happen, I ordered the IJN ships into Singapore and Bataan hexes at game start with settings of Remain on Station and Absolute tolerance. This is using stock Scenario 1 and the last official patch. I am not sure if
Michael's Beta patch addressed any of this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

Damage from mine hits is not applied until the end of the turn. I have had IJ ships and subs hit as many as nine mines without sinking
immediately. This is really annoying when they are more effective than minesweepers doing it the official way!

That really surprises me - has a developer confirmed that? Some mines have less "effect" than others, and the variability built into the game is a lot more likely explanation that there being a way of treating damage from mines different from the way all other damage is treated.

Right. Just as torpedo damage from a sub attack - even 4 hits on a DD - does not cause immediate sinking during that combat event, mine and shore battery fire racks up the damage but does not cause sinking until later in the round. Can't
remember if it is after each naval movement phase or after both naval phases are over. If an air attack or naval battle occurs involving the mine-struck ship before the end of phase, it will usually sink before it actually gets any further hits since these combats have
periodic checks to see if anything should sink.
Re: mine effectiveness - it is obviously set low since an IJN I-boat can take three mark 6 mines and not sink. Four or more will finally get the job done.
PS - since I was sandboxing to see what would happen, I ordered the IJN ships into Singapore and Bataan hexes at game start with settings of Remain on Station and Absolute tolerance. This is using stock Scenario 1 and the last official patch. I am not sure if
Michael's Beta patch addressed any of this.

It sounds like you are describing the damage model including the flooding and fires that rage in the hours following. Your post made it sound like mine damage was all held off the side, so to speak, and then applied at the end of the turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

I'm surprised they weren't getting sunk outright.

Same here. Torpedo boats especially should not be good for more than one mine hit.

Damage from mine hits is not applied until the end of the turn. I have had IJ ships and subs hit as many as nine mines without sinking
immediately. This is really annoying when they are more effective than minesweepers doing it the official way!

That really surprises me - has a developer confirmed that? Some mines have less "effect" than others, and the variability built into the game is a lot more likely explanation that there being a way of treating damage from mines different from the way all other damage is treated.

Right. Just as torpedo damage from a sub attack - even 4 hits on a DD - does not cause immediate sinking during that combat event, mine and shore battery fire racks up the damage but does not cause sinking until later in the round. Can't
remember if it is after each naval movement phase or after both naval phases are over. If an air attack or naval battle occurs involving the mine-struck ship before the end of phase, it will usually sink before it actually gets any further hits since these combats have
periodic checks to see if anything should sink.
Re: mine effectiveness - it is obviously set low since an IJN I-boat can take three mark 6 mines and not sink. Four or more will finally get the job done.
PS - since I was sandboxing to see what would happen, I ordered the IJN ships into Singapore and Bataan hexes at game start with settings of Remain on Station and Absolute tolerance. This is using stock Scenario 1 and the last official patch. I am not sure if
Michael's Beta patch addressed any of this.

It sounds like you are describing the damage model including the flooding and fires that rage in the hours following. Your post made it sound like mine damage was all held off the side, so to speak, and then applied at the end of the turn.

Just noticed your post witpqs. I AM saying that the damage is held off to the side - since there is no way a small ship or sub could hit nine mines before sinking. That is the annoying part - the "sweeping" of the mines by a doomed ship.
I played an old save that included an AMc sailing into Bataan hex [stock map, no Subic Bay] where it hit two mines and took seven hits from the naval fort. It then proceeded to sweep (the normal way) three mines. When the night phase AND the morning air phase finished, theAI did the "Ship Repair" routine and decided the AMc should sink. Pretty hokey. If torpedo damage can be applied immediately after a sub attack, why not mines?

quote:

Even if true, it does not mean that unrealistic game features should not be improved during updates or mods. I accept limitations that would take too much programming time to change, but it seems to me that the program routine that checks torpedo damage immediately after combat could be "cut and pasted" into mine hit incidents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

During the turn resolution the Japanese side always goes first.

During the night and both day air impulses during the turn resolution the Japanese side always bombs the Allied side before the Allied side bombs the Japanese side.

During the land combat resolution phase the Japanese side always attacks the Allied side before the Allied side attacks the Japanese side.

There is no way the Allies can forestall a Japanese land attack by attacking before the Japanese do.

Typical example: the Chinese have to survive the Japanese shock attacks and not be forced to retreat out of the hex to even be able to execute their attack for the turn.

That's what I mean by having the tactical initiative.