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RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/22/2014 9:24:34 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Beware of Target fixation.

He seems to be feeding your fear about attacks in the Fiji/Pago Pago region, lots of noise but little action.
Why would he have started screwing up his Invasion fleets now???

Something odd is happening, it might be he was trying to take out your CV force in advance, it might be cover for a decisive landing somewhere else (my vote), keeps your eyes open.

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(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 991
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/22/2014 9:41:35 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		If JeffK is right, it would almost have to be somewhere he can land under LBA unless you are sure Mr. Kane knows your CVs are in SOPAC. What areas fit that bill, if any?

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Post #: 992
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/22/2014 9:43:37 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Beware of Target fixation.



Too late.

I just hope he fixated enough!

PS: Couldn't take it any longer and broke down and read Mr. Kane's AAR.

I was looking for an evil, take over the world, laugh smiley but couldn't find one.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/23/2014 1:21:46 AM >

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 993
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 4:43:51 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Beware of Target fixation.



Too late.

I just hope he fixated enough!

PS: Couldn't take it any longer and broke down and read Mr. Kane's AAR.

I was looking for an evil, take over the world, laugh smiley but couldn't find one.

Will this do?





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Post #: 994
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 6:33:26 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Here we go indeed!
______________________________________________________________________________

Not much happened during the turn. Finback makes two attacks against a BB TF centered around Haruna and Kirishima. No sweeps, no recon, no nothing.

The allies sit back and watch the show...for now.

------------------------
Japanese intentions
------------------------
I´m still confused by what Tom is trying to do. If he was going for the Samoans why not land on something closer? There are several unoccupied dot bases between Fiji and Samoans that would serve just as well if not better.

I´ll continue to just monitor the situation for now. But right now I´m thinking this is a mistake on Toms part. There is simply no need to put forces at risk at this stage. He has a comfortable 4,3:1 lead and all he had to do was dig in and wait for me to come to him. Operating the KB + much of the Navy this far from the HI must be taxing on his LOC.

Of course it will only be a mistake if I can make him pay for it...

------------------------
Allied response
------------------------
Will be limited for now. I´m still sorting some stuff out. Looking at my situation I´m pretty happy but I´m missing a couple of pieces before I´ll strike back. ¨

-If he comes for the Samoans I´m already as ready as I can be.
-If he is going to try for Fiji I will gain time as he will need to re prep his troops. More time to dig in. Forts are already at 3 and 4 and rising with almost 0.3 each turn.

Whatever his objective is he has now exposed his troops and given me a good opportunity to hit back from well established allied positions.

As Hans says he has also put himself in the awkward position where he has to keep the KB around for whatever time he needs to finish the OP. He has not sent the KB back to refit and get the radars on the "kakus". Even if he immediately goes for the Samoans it will take months to capture them. In my game vs. Erik I had 4 BBs and 200 4Es hit a lone Jap ID at PM with level 6 forts for 2 or 3 months before they were finally kicked out. In the end it took 1 USMC IDs, 2 US ID + armor and a fully prepped HQ combo to do it. PM is Jungle hex (x2) just as every island on Fiji and Samoa.

Now I just need to figure out the best way to start nibbling at his forces...

This of course also opens up vast avenues in NOPAC, CENTPAC and Burma. While the first two might not help much in the way of VPs leaving them for me to take will make he position very hard in the coming years.

I´ll have a day to ponder things as I will be leaving town in a couple of hours. Heading out to my dads birthday party. But for now I´ll remain optimistic about the situation.




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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/23/2014 7:34:37 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 995
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 8:33:20 AM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Ready for the big action show, very excited
Don't comment 'cause reading both

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Post #: 996
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 8:41:59 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Can I politely request those reading both AAR keep quiet, from MrBlizzards & BBFanboys posts you could assume something is VERY imminent and you may give Joc time to avoid the trap. (Being hypothetical here, I cant see him picking up and moving out)

Sit back and enjoy from the bleachers, dont feel you have to have input.

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Post #: 997
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 12:33:54 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Will this do?




But what side will it apply to?

We shall find out shortly who is the real Brain! <evil laugh>

Clash of the Titans at Fiji!





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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/23/2014 1:36:05 PM >

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Post #: 998
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 2:50:10 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Can I politely request those reading both AAR keep quiet, from MrBlizzards & BBFanboys posts you could assume something is VERY imminent and you may give Joc time to avoid the trap. (Being hypothetical here, I cant see him picking up and moving out)

Sit back and enjoy from the bleachers, dont feel you have to have input.

To be clear, I am not reading the other AAR, and am as mystified as Jocke about Japanese intentions. All I did was find a smiley that was laughing for Lowpe.
Lowpe's comments did make me think there is something "out of the box" about Mr. Kane's plans which piqued my interest in watching how this all plays out, but did
not give me any clue as to what they are.





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Post #: 999
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 3:24:21 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Can I politely request those reading both AAR keep quiet, from MrBlizzards & BBFanboys posts you could assume something is VERY imminent and you may give Joc time to avoid the trap. (Being hypothetical here, I cant see him picking up and moving out)

Sit back and enjoy from the bleachers, dont feel you have to have input.

To be clear, I am not reading the other AAR, and am as mystified as Jocke about Japanese intentions. All I did was find a smiley that was laughing for Lowpe.
Lowpe's comments did make me think there is something "out of the box" about Mr. Kane's plans which piqued my interest in watching how this all plays out, but did
not give me any clue as to what they are.





Oh no.,
I was chortling about my ability to read both sides...more so than any plans either player has in place as they try to conquer the world.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1000
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/23/2014 11:22:07 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Can I politely request those reading both AAR keep quiet, from MrBlizzards & BBFanboys posts you could assume something is VERY imminent and you may give Joc time to avoid the trap. (Being hypothetical here, I cant see him picking up and moving out)

Sit back and enjoy from the bleachers, dont feel you have to have input.

To be clear, I am not reading the other AAR, and am as mystified as Jocke about Japanese intentions. All I did was find a smiley that was laughing for Lowpe.
Lowpe's comments did make me think there is something "out of the box" about Mr. Kane's plans which piqued my interest in watching how this all plays out, but did
not give me any clue as to what they are.






I am one of those reading both. As such, I have been very careful about not being specific about anything, and keeping my comments of a more "meta" nature. General strategy, consequences of choices independent of the action of your enemy, etc.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1001
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 7:45:25 AM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Don't worry,
my post was a hope for a clash just based on the picture above with many TFs included an amphibian one.
I really don't know if something is impending so any assumption based on it would be misleading.


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Post #: 1002
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 12:24:42 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline 		Tempting as it may be, I'm just reading this side.

I will afterwards go back and take a day and re-read both side by side. This has been epic so far thats for sure.

Enjoy the birthday party Joc.

I got news another friend of mine lost their father last night, seemingly very healthy and active and then just gone.

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 1003
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 4:00:27 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hey guys. Back home but havn´t had time to run the the turn. Just read the CR. No landing yet. A 3 BB bombardment of Suva with minimal damage. I hope I can do the turn and give an update before bed.

(in reply to catwhoorg)
Post #: 1004
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 5:53:40 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Here we go indeed!
______________________________________________________________________________

Don´t think I´ll be able to send the turn back to Tom tonight. So tired my eyes just burn when I look at the screen. Considering the situation I want some sleep before I do this turn.

Still no landing. Perhaps he is coming for the Samoans after all. But why go this route??? No more recon anywhere. Perhaps the target is Suva?

Here is the bombardment of Suva. 4 DIS on the 41st.

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Suva at 132,160

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Ise
BB Fuso

Allied ground losses:
60 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

E8N2 Dave acting as spotter for BB Hyuga
BB Hyuga firing at 41st Infantry Division
BB Ise firing at 41st Infantry Division
BB Fuso firing at 41st Infantry Division


During the night phase we had 4 sub attacks. All against DDs and all misses. Every single US sub you see in the screen except the one in the SW corner has a 10/10 DL.






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Post #: 1005
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 7:20:31 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Every single US sub you see in the screen except the one in the SW corner has a 10/10 DL.



FYI this is why it's a bad idea to send every sub in at once. Good to keep them staggered and continuously going in and out of the battlefield. After all, the easiest kills happen away from the main battlefield where there is less detection from the air.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1006
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 7:24:09 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Put your submarines on patrol setting with 0 day "stops"...the DL should reset once they change hexes.

Other than that... well I think he will try to take Fiji first and most likely Samoa next.

I do hope you are prepared since time make him bleed...

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 1007
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 10:59:56 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Other than that... well I think he will try to take Fiji first and most likely Samoa next.

I do hope you are prepared since time make him bleed...


Wowser! What an attack. I see only one invasion fleet, plus maybe some fast transports there or maybe they are asw hunter killer groups.

Talk about target rich environments! How big is the IJN in this game?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/25/2014 12:01:02 AM >

(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 1008
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/24/2014 11:44:19 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		I really got nothing. One things occurs to me looking at the screenie--reef city. Not many places on the map with more. They channel his movements in close. Might move your subs into the holes. His ASW isn't good yet and they might get a shot off despite DL.

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Post #: 1009
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 2:29:50 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Don't forget minefields at Suva!

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 1010
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 5:26:35 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		He must have brought the entire IJN.

Keeping them fueled must put a strain on his shipping! I´ve done pretty much nothing but haul fuel to SOPAC from day 1 and I have to be very, very careful with it.






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Post #: 1011
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 7:41:20 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I sent the turn back to Tom. Nothing spectacular planned from the allied side next turn. I´m still doing stuff out of sight that needs to finish. Lets see if Tom comes for the Samoans. Lack of transports seem to speak against that though. Perhaps its all just a big feint to try and lure allied CVs into action.

Considering the incredible Japanese focus on SOPAC it seems prudent to make some moves elsewhere. I feel pretty confident Tom won´t be able to dislodge me from Fiji or the Samoans in a hurry. Such a move would take months and months and I should have time to react on that if needed. I have 700-1000 AV at key bases in good terrain and well dug in. So for now allied reinforcements will be focused elsewhere. I´ve picked a couple of targets I´ll focus on for now. I started by changing the prepp of some restricted troops I intend to buy out. Also bought out 2/3rds of 40th ID.

So for now I´ll just keep adding as much pressure as I can and take advantage of any situations that may arise. Meanwhile I´ll be waiting for prep.

This is how the VP trend looks when China "only" have around 500 casualties per turn and the STRAT bombing in OZ is almost halted. Sadly it will all go to hell when Chungking falls and I lose 800 VPs from the base while Tom gains 1600... not to mention all the troops... I hate China.





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Post #: 1012
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 8:46:04 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Inconclusive CV Battle!
______________________________________________________________________________

To be more specific its wasn´t a CV battle per see. But rather one of those ridiculous "1 hex advantage" Japanese strikes. Luckily this time I wasn´t mauled by it as I was in my game vs. Erik in 42.

In all honestly I think I deserved some luck and this time I got it. Looks like something botched for Tom and that saved me. He later confirmed this in an email as KB had reacted.

During the night...almost...again...almost. Two hits. Two duds.

quote:

Sub attack near Moala at 133,163

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu
BB Yamato
BB Haruna
DD Oboro
DD Ushio
DD Sazanami
DD Akebono

Allied Ships
SS Gudgeon

SS Gudgeon launches 6 torpedoes at CV Hiryu


We also launch at a DD and CA Chikuma. No hits. After that search results start coming in and things get really hairy. Not really sure what happened here. I had set Illustrious to retire towards Christmas (She had delivered DBs to Savaii) but for some reason she moved back towards Savaii. Very lucky here.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ta'u at 150,160

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
D3A1 Val x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 7 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 1


[/size=1]

Then comes the big strike. Several things helped this not becoming a disaster.

quote:

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 121
B5N2 Kate x 77

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 16
Martlet II x 16
F4F-3 Wildcat x 51
F4F-4 Wildcat x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 21 destroyed, 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
Martlet II: 2 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable
CV Formidable
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 1
CA Chester

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb


Its a very good sized Japanese strike. Luckily for me the 7 hex strike meant the DBs didn´t participate. The "CAP KB" was also left behind in the reaction which meant a lot less escort planes. My CAP quickly got in among the bombers and shot down 10-15 before they reached the CVs.

And then the most deciding factor...For some reason the Kates had bombs instead of TTs. That saved the day as bombing fast CVs from 10k altitude in heavy rain is very hard. Had they carried TTs I would have been a goner. Tom had also set some 50 A6M3as to Strato Sweep Pago Pago. They could have made a big difference had they taken part in the strike.

Not happy with how my CAP behaved though and I had way to few planes in the air. I made some changes to the settings and hope I can get more planes in the air the next time. I´m going to try and sneak out of Toms search and get into a better position. Unless he makes a full speed run this should be successful.

I´m not out of the woods yet. I don´t have enough fuel on my escorts to put my CVs on full speed. If I do I risk an unwanted fuel stop which I can´t risk. So if Tom sets the KB to full speed he may catch me next turn. But I hope he doesn´t want to take on the full allied CV fleet without the extra 200 Fighters on "CAP KB". Also having reacted I after what Tom said was full speed run I hope he is low on fuel too.

Looking at the TFs Tom have I´m not so sure there is going to be any landings. This might just have been a very expensive CV hunt. We will see. Don´t want a CV fight right now. I want Wasp and Avengers before starting to think about that. Will be some nervous waiting for the next turn.






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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/25/2014 12:16:41 PM >

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Post #: 1013
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 8:58:36 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Good luck! This should get entertaining soon.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 1014
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 10:25:34 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		I hope he lose lot of planes and good pilots. I will not be easy to replace them so far fromnearest friendly base.

< Message edited by koniu -- 8/25/2014 11:42:02 AM >

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Post #: 1015
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 11:16:51 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Updated!

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 1016
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 11:35:25 AM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Why aren't you attacking that carrier fleet with LBA assets flying from airfields around Pago Pago?

You should have adequate number of bombers etc avalaible to do so? Also you have 3 mutually supporting airfields so he cannot supress them all.

His carriers were also separated so it would have been more than gold opportunity to knock out that CV TF once an for all.

That setup is pretty much what I had oncoming towards Hawaji where LBA took major casualties but knocked out quite a few aircraft in return.... and the allied carriers finished the job up.

He could not have survived that strike if it had LBA and carrier planes attacking. Unless ofcourse he would have been lucky.

I would expect that the two separate carrier TF's will rendevouz soon. Propably next turn and the has much higher CAP in the air.

Just some thoughts!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1017
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 12:43:24 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		On post #1005 there are CL and CA TFs that appear to be hunting north of Tahiti - they might be hoping to ambush your carriers.
There are also two APDs spotted and there could be more in that TF. There probably is a landing of some kind taking place unobserved, or about to take place.
It is possible he meant to reinforce at Nadi and you spoiled that by evicting his previous foothold, so the landings he was covering have been called off.

All this speculation to say the FOW has not lifted!

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1018
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 12:43:35 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Why aren't you attacking that carrier fleet with LBA assets flying from airfields around Pago Pago?

You should have adequate number of bombers etc avalaible to do so? Also you have 3 mutually supporting airfields so he cannot supress them all.

His carriers were also separated so it would have been more than gold opportunity to knock out that CV TF once an for all.

That setup is pretty much what I had oncoming towards Hawaji where LBA took major casualties but knocked out quite a few aircraft in return.... and the allied carriers finished the job up.

He could not have survived that strike if it had LBA and carrier planes attacking. Unless ofcourse he would have been lucky.

I would expect that the two separate carrier TF's will rendevouz soon. Propably next turn and the has much higher CAP in the air.

Just some thoughts!


Hey!

I don´t have much in terms of LBA. The USMC have a bunch of DB squadrons with trained pilots but no planes. All their squadrons arrive with Vindicators or SBD-1 and 2s and only with 2 planes in each. I don´t have any planes to fill them out with and they ALL upgrade to SBD-3. The SBD-3s I have in the pool have gone to the CVs to replace older SBDs and Helldivers.

Besides that most USMC DB squadrons withdraw in 42 so I´m reluctant to pay PPs for them as I would lose the planes when they withdraw.

2Es I only have a BG of Marauders in OZ. The rest of the BGs are flying 2-4 Bolos and upgrade to B17Es (no planes in pool) and/or withdraw in 42.

PDU OFF really changes a lot things. For instance I have 46 Helldivers in the pool but only 1 LBA squadron that can use it.

(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 1019
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/25/2014 12:59:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Keep the turns rolling -- this is great fun!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1020
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