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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/25/2014 9:35:37 PM   
Hikikomori

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Yep thats working as designed with the Lemeresh. Thanks to Icemania this is the most fun Ive ever had with this Distant Worlds!




Your settings would be interesting.

< Message edited by Hikikomori -- 8/25/2014 10:36:43 PM >

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Post #: 511
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:22:07 AM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hikikomori


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Yep thats working as designed with the Lemeresh. Thanks to Icemania this is the most fun Ive ever had with this Distant Worlds!




Your settings would be interesting.


Here you go! I highly recommend these settings for a certain type of gameplay after lots of games looking for a sweet spot these are definitely the settings I enjoy most! Allows for slow growth mega epic games! This is my personal preference and may not be everyones cup of tea. Playing with a harsh homeworld is really one of the best things you can do to make a challenging game. But I also like the AI to be on the same playing field no cheats. And now with Icemania's mod and all of the DW updates the AI can finally handle these settings. Makes every battle, ship, character, resource, and cent gained mean something! You cant overwhelm the AI with these settings and they can't overwhelm you! Unless of course you find a super derelict ship or super government or use cheesy tactics such as using sneaky fast super shielded troop transports for planet gobbling instead of attacking and maintaining space superiority first before invading. No cash farming diplomacy. No using agents to steal a tech every year.

Also suggested by Icemania:

• No Homeworld Invasions are permitted until the 30 year mark and no use of sneaky fast troop transports
• Diplomacy may not be used to farm cash in any way (i.e. technology trading, selling stations/bases or sanctions/war)
• Intelligence Agents must remain on Counter Intelligence duties
• Recovered ships must be retired
• Debris field ships may not be recovered until they are within my territorial influence
• Ship and Base Design is on Automatic almost always
• Exploration ships must be on Automatic, no micro
• Research is on Automatic (although there is a trick if anyone can pick it)
• Cannot attack the Eruktah Refugees until they reveal themselves as the Shakturi




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< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 8:48:08 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:24:05 AM   
Tanaka


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< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 5:24:43 AM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:25:59 AM   
Tanaka


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< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 5:59:45 AM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:27:17 AM   
Tanaka


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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:28:12 AM   
Tanaka


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< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 10:31:16 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:31:16 AM   
Tanaka


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From: USA
Status: offline 		Hi Icemania is government balancing a possibility yet for 1.02? Way of Ancients and Way of Darkness are super overpowered with no weaknesses. I understand they are supposed to spice things up but they are as game breaking as the super derelict ships. I was having a great game until the race that found way of ancients starting taking over the whole map! I also agree with changing the Lemeresh to not having a super weapon at game start!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 5:34:19 AM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 5:36:21 AM   
Blackstork


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Hi Icemania is government balancing a possibility yet for 1.02? Way of Ancients and Way of Darkness are super overpowered with no weaknesses. I understand they are supposed to spice things up but they are as game breaking as the super derelict ships. I was having a great game until the race that found way of ancients starting taking over the whole map! I also agree with changing the Lemeresh to not having a super weapon at game start!


Good idea. I will do that in Beyond.
you also invited to play it, it have AI mod as well, and it could benefit from player experience and feedback.


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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 6:45:54 AM   
Hikikomori

 

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Status: offline 		Is designing yourself still such an advantage, with the new templates and all?
Can't let the AI do that, would take to much fun out of the game for me. Research would be sad to automate to, and no spies at all would render races that have bonuses there rather weak, e.g. paratis.

The rest seems reasonable, will give them a try, maybe i try hard to compensate for my microing.

What did you do with tech trading and events? No tech trading for the player, but left on for the AI?


< Message edited by Hikikomori -- 8/26/2014 7:48:26 AM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 7:02:50 AM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		Ye, no spies seem quite odd for me too.. its part of the game, and ai does some job with it (steals, infiltrates) - and espionage empowers it.... turning it off is just stripping AI from certain power.
As player you can skip using spies for offence if you playing not spy race (if you are willing to have challenge)
Also Icemania templates are good and i agree that there no really alot of sense to design your templates, they wont improve things, at least no sence in "vanilla" extended setup.


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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 11:02:07 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Hi Icemania is government balancing a possibility yet for 1.02? Way of Ancients and Way of Darkness are super overpowered with no weaknesses. I understand they are supposed to spice things up but they are as game breaking as the super derelict ships. I was having a great game until the race that found way of ancients starting taking over the whole map! I also agree with changing the Lemeresh to not having a super weapon at game start!

Yeah maybe, busy playing at the moment rather than modding.

What I was thinking with governments though wasn't with Way of the Ancients or Way of Darkness, it was to balance the weaker "normal" governments with the stronger "normal" governments. The AI Exploration is vastly improved so personally I like the fact that Super Governments and Super Weapons provide an advantage to the AI, it's a reward for the investment. The idea is to help the AI, not hinder it!

I also like the Lemeresh starting with a Super Weapons, it adds spice, and can always be countered by steamrolling with a large fleet. If lurchi add more Super Weapons for other weapons types I would like to see more of it.

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 11:07:39 AM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hikikomori
Is designing yourself still such an advantage, with the new templates and all?
Can't let the AI do that, would take to much fun out of the game for me. Research would be sad to automate to, and no spies at all would render races that have bonuses there rather weak, e.g. paratis.

Yes if you are good at design you'll be able to get an advantage because the template files have limitations e.g. no conditional logic. But less advantage than Vanilla, which was excessive.

Research I encode my personal research order in the Race file for the race that I'm playing. From time to time in-game I'll select what I need at the time, I automate that "custom" order.

The reason I set Intelligence Agents to Counter Intelligence is to avoid exploiting the AI, particularly if you have an Agent with good espionage and concealment skills, if can be game changing. But the AI can go for it.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 8/26/2014 12:09:39 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 11:18:26 AM   
Icemania


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Status: offline 		Tanaka:

I would recommend caution when giving the AI's a Harsh homeworld start. Human players will adapt to this far better than the AI, maybe bump them to Normal at least.

I would also recommend Hard difficulty as a minimum as the AI does not handle limited cashflow as well.

Even better play with my settings and restrictions, we haven't had enough defeat screenshots!



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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 3:50:18 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

SHIP DESIGN
- AI ship design process now automatically adds extra energy collector components to match static energy requirements of design (similar to the way reactors are added)
- AI ship design now increases size of Carrier designs (beyond default design template) when construction size allows (like Capital Ships already did)
- added medium and large freighter designs to AI ship design shrinking process (attempt to fit within current maximum construction size)
- fighter firepower now listed in ship design detail screen (Weapons panel), to allow better comparison of military designs (firepower and fighters listed separately)

MODDING
- now optionally allow setting battle tactics, invasion tactics and fleeWhen settings for designs in design template files. To do this, for any design template file for any race, use the following entries (Entry name with possible values after the colon):
TacticsWeaker: Evade, Standoff, AllWeapons, PointBlank
TacticsStronger: Evade, Standoff, AllWeapons, PointBlank
TacticsInvasion: DoNotInvade, InvadeWhenClear, InvadeImmediately
FleeWhen: EnemyMilitarySighted, Attacked, Shields50, Shields20, Never

OTHER
- ship decision whether to use tractor beams to pull or push a target now uses optimal attack ranges defined by battle tactics, e.g. when set to Point Blank then will pull within close range, when set to Evade will always push. Spaceports defending a colony will push when enemy troop transport gets too close in an attempt to prevent them from dropping invading troops at the colony


Some job ahead of you, but damn the ai will be dangerous with Point blank blaster.

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:04:08 PM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		Hey mate, player of Beyond mod found bug, which originates from latest release AI mod. (As it been integrated without touching designs for vanilla/extyended races)
Human (Teekan, Paratis etc - Missile/Death Ray family) carrier and Resuply ships designs are bugged.
Carriers dont have fighters.
Resuply ships got problem as well. - they dont have docking bays.
Please investigate this matter. How we could fix it fast?
I am trying to apply other setup designs, and then readjust weaponry according to volume.
For screenshots please check latest posts in Beyond thread.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3682983



< Message edited by Blackstork -- 8/26/2014 5:17:41 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 4:42:40 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

Hey mate, player of Beyond mod found bug, which originates from latest release AI mod. (As it been integrated without touching designs for vanilla/extyended races)
Human (Teekan, Paratis etc - Missile/Death Ray family) carrier and Resuply ships designs are bugged.
Carriers dont have fighters.
Resuply ships got problem as well. - they dont have docking bays.
Please investigate this matter. How we could fix it fast?
I am trying to apply other setup designs, and then readjust weaponry according to volume.
For screenshots please check latest posts in Beyond thread.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3682983




Effectively, I am checking the design and there is a problem. 0 Fighter bay for carrier in teh design template and no docking bay for the ressuplyship for many races.


< Message edited by PsyKoSnake -- 8/26/2014 7:30:45 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 5:03:30 PM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		Thats what i am saying. this is exact problem . I will try to check it and make fast fix, in order to release it in todays planned .52 update for Beyond.
Cariers is easier to fix than docking basy, i hope Icemania will come soon online and we can do something together :)

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 8/26/2014 6:04:35 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 7:39:35 PM   
Tanaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Tanaka:

I would recommend caution when giving the AI's a Harsh homeworld start. Human players will adapt to this far better than the AI, maybe bump them to Normal at least.

I would also recommend Hard difficulty as a minimum as the AI does not handle limited cashflow as well.

Even better play with my settings and restrictions, we haven't had enough defeat screenshots!



Yeah like I said this is just my personal preference and I don't recommend it for those that like lots of action but for those that prefer a slower paced epic game with more meaningful choices. I find playing with a harsh homeworld is just as challenging as ramping up the ai cheats but I also like the AI to be on the same playing field. The AI is actually doing quite well and giving me quite a challenge which is a first for these settings for me. Like I said this is due to the great recent DW updates and to your mod! Its also a great way to test your mod all things being equal.


< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/26/2014 8:54:07 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 8:06:14 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Hi Icemania is government balancing a possibility yet for 1.02? Way of Ancients and Way of Darkness are super overpowered with no weaknesses. I understand they are supposed to spice things up but they are as game breaking as the super derelict ships. I was having a great game until the race that found way of ancients starting taking over the whole map! I also agree with changing the Lemeresh to not having a super weapon at game start!

Yeah maybe, busy playing at the moment rather than modding.

What I was thinking with governments though wasn't with Way of the Ancients or Way of Darkness, it was to balance the weaker "normal" governments with the stronger "normal" governments. The AI Exploration is vastly improved so personally I like the fact that Super Governments and Super Weapons provide an advantage to the AI, it's a reward for the investment. The idea is to help the AI, not hinder it!

I also like the Lemeresh starting with a Super Weapons, it adds spice, and can always be countered by steamrolling with a large fleet. If lurchi add more Super Weapons for other weapons types I would like to see more of it.


I understand what you are going for and respect your preferences. Some people like sugar and some like spice!
Ive integrated Dwaines wonder balances into your mod. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3630680&mpage=1&key=� An example would be where the shipyards wonder gives 100% production instead of 200% production. In my current game Ive built this wonder but I wont be overpowering the AI with it and the AI wont be overpowering each other with the wonders they have built. I see this as helping the AI in another way. Im looking for the AI and the player to get advantages just not game changing ones. Im looking to do the same for the governments. Also I never understood why Way of Darkness is against Way of Darkness in biases. Its little things like that I want to change as well. Its all just personal preference and I will see if I can figure out how to mod the governments like I did the wonders. But love your mod and can't wait to see what youve got planned with the new patch!

Edit: Ive finally figured out how to balance the governments and wonders and integrate into your awesome mod! Carry on!

One modding question did you modify just the race biases or the government biases as well and did you modify the extended races also if so?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 8/27/2014 7:07:54 AM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/26/2014 9:22:54 PM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		On issue of carrier without fighters and Ressuply ship without docking bays
For carriers there no reason to strip fighters if race % of building for carrirs = 0, while for people who play it might save alot of micromanagement. I would/will (for Beyond) apply default mortalen/securan carrier design for other races as temporary fix.

For resuply ship its requires some one-by-one basis adjustment (well we can make one and just copy it)
I think i will even postpone Beyond patch till Icemania and I (i will try to fix things myslef abit) will solve this issue. Seems docking bays are not added automatically as reactors, and solving that obcourse will provide to AI even more power , because all ais were stripped from ressuply ship usage ..:)

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 8/26/2014 10:43:24 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 3:53:03 AM   
Tanaka


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Status: offline 		Just a small recommendation after playing a while maybe increase troop ship builds to 30% to increase planet invasions. Also is it possible for the AI to defend its planets with a minimum of 3-4 defenders? I see the star trek mod has done this? Ive found this is a good standard for myself in heeding off pirates and invaders.

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 11:54:38 AM   
Icemania


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Status: offline 		Okay with that awesome patch I'm now working on 1.02! The more ideas for changes the merrier but my focus will be the Design Templates.

With Carriers yes I was focused on the AI who don't use them at all if they are not focused on Fighters/Bombers. For human players yes Blackstork the Mortalen or Securan designs will do the trick and that's what I'll do as a fix as well. There was a token Torpedo or Missile on the Carriers but with recent patch changes that may not be needed anymore. I see the new patch will increase Carrier sizes now so the late game Fighter battles should become even crazier!

With Resupply Ships, since I don't use them so I didn't pick that problem up, and will fix it up in 1.02, thanks! Each template will need to be changed but the race uses different weapons, you can't copy and paste.

With Tactics now available for Modding, I'll put a 1.02 Beta out this time, it would be good for a few of you to have a look and play some test games before I put out an official update.


< Message edited by Icemania -- 8/27/2014 12:55:31 PM >

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Post #: 532
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 12:13:04 PM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		Much appreciated and anticipated, mate. I will focus on beyond stuff till you release final update then will do reintegration.
I will also appreciate lust of files been changed and changes done in excel file, so I could reintegrate things swiftly.
You will change queues/race files in 1.02?
I thinking to build programmed with formulas excel module which will automate certain portion of race queues and specialization for future megamod, it could be our sub-project and it will make your mod and its integration, as well some more things more modular. What you say?

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 8/27/2014 1:16:31 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 12:18:00 PM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
Much appreciated and anticipated, mate. I will focus on beyond stuff till you release final update then will do reintegration.
I will also appreciate lust of files been changed and changes done in excel file, so I could reintegrate things swiftly.
You will change queues/race files in 1.02?

Cool. But Blackstork, the list of files will be very long, given I can apply Tactics now. What I can do is summarise the tactic selection for each race in the Summary Sheet of the Excel file.

What did mean by queues?

Yes I could change the Alliances in the race files to keep people on their toes, if that's what you mean?

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Post #: 534
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 12:24:33 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
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Status: offline 		I mean its makes hard time for me if you change racial files. So I wanted to know if you change them and I can skip them and queues for research are unchanged.
I just will need your file patch from the 1.01 to 1.02 without all the base, only changes. Is it possible to have?
Also check my edit about excel file . You didn't quoted it.

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 8/27/2014 1:25:36 PM >

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 12:46:38 PM   
Icemania


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Status: offline 		Okay the plan is to make no change to the race files / research build orders anyway Blackstork, hope that helps.

The Excel file automation is an interesting idea but between the races there are lots of little tweaks I've put in. Automating between the Excel files and race files is beyond me.

I'll try to provide a summary of template changes which make it clear. Note there are 3,540 ship and base design template files (Vanilla plus Extended) so it won't be at a file by file level of detail.

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Post #: 536
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 12:58:14 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
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From: Australia
Status: offline 		Blackstork, with the Resupply Ships, I'm thinking 20 Docking Bays. 10 per Vanilla seems too small given the fleets sizes. So to fit that in, I'm reducing fuel cells from 25 to 20 and Shields from 30 to 25 (unshrunk design per the templates).

Any Resupply Ship gurus around that want to have a closer look at those designs? As mentioned I don't use them.

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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 1:01:56 PM   
Blackstork


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Status: offline 		Such level of detail is not needed. The best way to see the changes is to see direct file patch update, without "the base" - extended mod files and 1.01 files which remained unchanged from 1.01 to 1.02.
Also I am sure automation could help obcourse to build queues for research for integration into megamod between Ai mod, beyond and lurchis research.

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Post #: 538
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 1:11:00 PM   
Icemania


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Status: offline 		All good, I'll put out a Beta so you can see the files that change quickly with the changelog, and we'll keep in touch.

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Post #: 539
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) - 8/27/2014 1:29:09 PM   
Hikikomori

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/16/2014
Status: offline 		Probably the most important changes would be stations and tractors, to utilize the new "you shall not invade so easily" tractorbeam behaviour. Also ridding carriers of the token weapon would be great.

That said, the sheer amount of changes and files even on a relatively generic level is terrible, you are in for a lot of work.
If you can use a typing monkey, i volunteer.


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Post #: 540
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