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Some questions - 9/1/2014 8:27:37 PM

SnakE227

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Hi!
Why units "do not see" a smoke from destroyed vehicles/tanks?
Not every player's unit can see enemy unit. But smoke is visible from anywhere.

Screenshot 1:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by SnakE227 -- 9/1/2014 9:39:37 PM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/1/2014 8:37:52 PM

SnakE227

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Screenshot 2:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Some questions - 9/1/2014 9:52:43 PM

rickier65

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That's a good question, but I don't think I can answer why. I might guess that the game considers the smoke as part of the unit and since the second spotter can't see the actual unit, the game isn't showing the smoke either, though you are right, the smoke should be visible to other units even if the destroyed unit isn't.

thanks
rick

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RE: Some questions - 9/1/2014 11:14:37 PM

SnakE227

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And second question...
What about pausable real-time mode for PCO? Like Combat Mission Series.

< Message edited by SnakE227 -- 9/2/2014 1:13:05 AM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/1/2014 11:31:30 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakE227
Hi!
Why units "do not see" a smoke from destroyed vehicles/tanks?
Not every player's unit can see enemy unit. But smoke is visible from anywhere.

Screenshot 1:

Is the smoke of any tactical importance?

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RE: Some questions - 9/1/2014 11:40:26 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakE227
And second question...
What about pausable real-time mode for PCO? Like Combat Mission Series.

We'd rather have the re-play ability.

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RE: Some questions - 9/2/2014 12:03:44 AM

SnakE227

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quote:

Is the smoke of any tactical importance?

No. But it gives more complete picture of the battlefield. And more realistic in my opinion.

< Message edited by SnakE227 -- 9/2/2014 1:10:48 AM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/2/2014 9:22:45 PM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakE227

quote:

Is the smoke of any tactical importance?

No. But it gives more complete picture of the battlefield. And more realistic in my opinion.

If you don't have any unit selected the smoke and destroyed units should show, they are only not shown when you select a unit that doesn't have LOS.

Rick

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RE: Some questions - 9/2/2014 11:04:02 PM

SnakE227

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quote:

If you don't have any unit selected the smoke and destroyed units should show, they are only not shown when you select a unit that doesn't have LOS.

I know. The question lies in the visibility of smoke. Unit can not see the source of the smoke. But smoke from the destroyed tank is visible for miles.

For example:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Some questions - 9/2/2014 11:18:25 PM

SnakE227

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And third question/proposition for next update...

In my opinion order/action icons (or labels) would improve game interface.

Thanks!

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< Message edited by SnakE227 -- 9/3/2014 12:19:57 AM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/3/2014 1:24:45 AM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnakE227
I know. The question lies in the visibility of smoke. Unit can not see the source of the smoke. But smoke from the destroyed tank is visible for miles.
For example:

That probably is the way it should be handled. Though kind of small potatoes of realism. How real is it to see trees and houses the far side of hills?

quote:

In my opinion order/action icons (or labels) would improve game interface.

I like the idea of more info though it may be messy looking. How about a way of showing infantry that are pinned, suppressed and suffered casualties? Maybe on the floating icon or maybe on the icons of the center HUD window?

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RE: Some questions - 9/3/2014 5:15:24 AM

Ratzki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

I like the idea of more info though it may be messy looking. How about a way of showing infantry that are pinned, suppressed and suffered casualties? Maybe on the floating icon or maybe on the icons of the center HUD window?

Now we are talking. That would be a welcomed improvement.

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RE: Some questions - 9/3/2014 12:33:11 PM

SnakE227

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Floating icons example:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Some questions - 9/3/2014 12:36:16 PM

SnakE227

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I made some icons samples:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Some questions - 9/3/2014 2:13:24 PM

Mobius

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Those look pretty good. Though I would use just a simple small colored ball for SOP. The colored bars could be used for infantry casualty levels.

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RE: Some questions - 9/4/2014 10:14:20 AM

major.pain

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Nice to know the game is being worked on again.
I did ask this question long ago when i first picked up the title as it was my main gripe but are there any plans to change the way armor will not fire on the same phase that it has moved????
That was the reason i stopped playing the game. Having your tank sitting there after a move and being shot at without returning fire until the next phase ticked round.
It had me shouting a few derogatory things at my tanks i can tell you.....

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RE: Some questions - 9/4/2014 1:40:24 PM

budd

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Rush and engage I belive are the only orders they won't fire under on the move .Granted having an order named engage and not being able to fire while or after moving is strangely named. I mostly use short rush moves or advance and bound. They revert to defend after a rush order and can fire. It's early, if I'm wrong someone will correct me. I'd like them to stop and fire at a likely when moving under engage.

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RE: Some questions - 9/4/2014 2:14:46 PM

major.pain

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I am fine if for example a tank will not return fire while it is "rushing" but when it has stopped i do not see the logic in why it would not fire, even more so if it is being fired upon.
I do fire the game up once in a blue moon as i do like the game it has massive amounts of content and detail but as soon as my tanks start sitting there without returning fire i jump up and down for a bit and turn it off lol.

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RE: Some questions - 9/5/2014 2:39:57 PM

Mobius

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Defend, Advance and Withdraw allow firing in the same phase as moving. In fact while moving. But Rush, Charge, and Engage do not allow it even after the unit has stopped during the phase. I believe it was something Rick was going to look at changing.

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RE: Some questions - 9/5/2014 7:21:26 PM

major.pain

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That would be great if its changed somewhat :)

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RE: Some questions - 9/6/2014 3:28:49 AM

rickier65

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We have been looking at this. I don't know if it will be in the patch or not, but we are looking at allowing AFVs with Engage --> Move orders that have reached their destination during a phase be able to target and fire as long as there is enough time left in that phase.

thanks
Rick

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RE: Some questions - 9/6/2014 4:29:45 AM

budd

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i guess while moving under an engage order it would not be possible to have them stop there move if they come upon a target of opportunity and fire instead of finishing their move and then firing.

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RE: Some questions - 9/6/2014 6:28:57 AM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

i guess while moving under an engage order it would not be possible to have them stop there move if they come upon a target of opportunity and fire instead of finishing their move and then firing.

I don't think that's what we have in mind. but I think it will make things better if it can
fire after reaching destination with Engage Move and I think that's more in line with what was intended for that tactical order.

Thanks
Rick

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RE: Some questions - 9/6/2014 8:23:37 PM

major.pain

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Thanks for looking at altering this rather placid AFV behavior Rick.
Budds suggestion is great to be fair as you could then use the "Engage" move as a "Engage/Move to Contact".
However, i will take what i can get

< Message edited by M J R -- 9/7/2014 8:25:48 AM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/7/2014 2:54:22 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M J R
Thanks for looking at altering this rather placid AFV behavior Rick.
Budds suggestion is great to be fair as you could then use the "Engage" move as a "Engage/Move to Contact".

I wonder if this could be done with the SOP setting and not an order?

< Message edited by Mobius -- 9/7/2014 3:54:48 PM >

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RE: Some questions - 9/7/2014 3:35:31 PM

budd

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that is a good suggestion. You can already use the sop to scout and withdraw when you come upon the enemy, maybe some kind of hunt sop or something...... or add the capability to another sop, Can the actions of an sop be defined by a specific order?

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RE: Some questions - 9/7/2014 5:56:36 PM

Mobius

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SOP is kind of a mystery to me. Very often I don't know what my troops are going to do.
From the description in the manual I would of thought that Normal SOP would be halt when contact. But sometimes they continue to move and other times they retreat. I think the random morale influence is too great in the SOP.

And if I didn't know what the units were going to do before now that Rick has fixed the sighting that might change the reaction. I noticed changes in AI behavior because now units can actually see better.

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RE: Some questions - 9/7/2014 6:19:48 PM

budd

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are you playing new builds? How's it shaping up if you are. The cautious sop seems to work well. I was thinking if you could define an action under an sop by order type then using engage as an example you could have a unit continue to move forward[maybe fire on the move] using engage under an aggressive sop and maybe stop and fire under engage order using the normal sop and withdraw while firing under cautious sop. Now if this is even possible or really difficult to do i have no idea.I have used a lot of the cautious sop for scouting but aggressive not so much, at least not enough to compare any differences.

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RE: Some questions - 9/7/2014 6:45:29 PM

Mobius

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Yes, I had been testing builds with some sighting fixes.

German protocol was not to fire on the move. They would fire then move. Or move then fire. �Fire on the short halt. Though this can�t be modeled very well.

Russians did train to fire on the move. If the Engage and Bound orders were changed to fire after moving and halting at the end of the phase then I�d go for taking Advance orders away from the Germans. Though that would be kind of drastic.

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RE: Some questions - 9/8/2014 5:18:02 AM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

SOP is kind of a mystery to me. Very often I don't know what my troops are going to do.
From the description in the manual I would of thought that Normal SOP would be halt when contact. But sometimes they continue to move and other times they retreat. I think the random morale influence is too great in the SOP.

And if I didn't know what the units were going to do before now that Rick has fixed the sighting that might change the reaction. I noticed changes in AI behavior because now units can actually see better.

The behavior of units for different SOPs depends not only on sighting or contact with enemy units, but I beleive it also depends on the threat level of the enemy units sighted. At least that is my recollection.

Thanks
Rick

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