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Air intercept inside an area? - 9/9/2014 5:11:03 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Hi guys!

I'm trying to create a mission where a squadron will intercept enemy aircraft but only inside an area (i don't want that they will pursuit the enemy too far away, because there are a lot of enemy Sams).
I don't like the patrol mission, because i want that when the enemy is spotted they will engage it like a big group, in close formation.

Is it possible to do that?

Thank you very much and sorry for my poor English
Post #: 1
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/9/2014 5:29:58 PM   
scottb613


Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Wasicun,

Your English is fine...


Use the other tab on the patrol mission screen... Have a set of reference points for your patrol area and a second set for the area where you want to prosecute targets... Setup you normal AAW Patrol Mission - then select the "Prosecution Area" tab and add your second set if reference points... Make sure you have "Investigate Contacts Outside of Patrol Area" selected... That should so it...

Regards,
Scott

< Message edited by scottb613 -- 9/9/2014 6:31:56 PM >

(in reply to Wasicun)
Post #: 2
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/9/2014 5:30:18 PM   
Luidzi

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 8/15/2014
Status: offline 		I would use a standard AAW patrol with investigate outside patrol area checked, patrol area defining where you want your planes to loiter and prosecution area to limit their interception range.
Personally I never use formation for aircrafts. In your case it might work putting them in formation beforehand.

(in reply to Wasicun)
Post #: 3
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/9/2014 6:28:34 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Thank you very much guys!

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Post #: 4
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/9/2014 11:40:15 PM   
Stevechase

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline 		I have been asking for this option for some time now. I have sort of grown tired of saying it but alas, simply using patrols with prosecution zones and even utilizing events still does not get done what is needed. What is needed is a true dedicated air craft Intercept mission which can be created by the player side (in-game not editor)at will based on the players parameters, ie intercept with a portion of the assigned ac (so that there will always be ac ready when the previous ac land and refuel/rearm like the 1/3rd rule) when enemy bomber class is detected in zone B. Then land rearm and wait for next intercept call. The current ac "intercept mission"in the game does not model real life intercepts. Actually I have requested this as new feature numerous times. I can not be the only person who sees the need for this?

(in reply to Wasicun)
Post #: 5
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 12:36:09 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		There is an intercept mission under strike missions. The behavior doesn't utilize the 3rd rule but aircraft will repeatedly take off and land as long as they survive.If you pair this with exclusions zones (which let you designate unfriendly and hostile postures) it does actually let you step into what could happen with real word intercepts.

Mike

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RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 1:01:25 AM   
Stevechase

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

There is an intercept mission under strike missions. The behavior doesn't utilize the 3rd rule but aircraft will repeatedly take off and land as long as they survive.If you pair this with exclusions zones (which let you designate unfriendly and hostile postures) it does actually let you step into what could happen with real word intercepts.

Mike

Yes I know and I have learned to accept that, well until I saw the OP-got me stirred up again. But still would like to have a 1/3rd type rule plus ability to specify the violation zone the enemy must enter. Currently the Intercept will trigger no matter where the enemy ac are on the map, plus would like to be able to specify enemy ac type to intercept. Sort of a complete comprehensive Intercept tool. Or course I realize as Mick told Kieth "you can't always get what you want"

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 7
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 2:03:38 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Steve

You can do this

When you're creating the intercept mission look in the mission options at the bottom. You have a drop down menu specifying when the mission triggers (unknown by default but can set to unfriendly and hostile). You pair this with exclusion zones (the violation zones you wanted) which will define targets as unfriendly and/or hostile which triggers the mission as long as you set it that way in the mission triggers option.

Mike




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 2:44:05 AM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 513
Joined: 3/4/2014
From: Washington, D.C.
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how you can make that work for the situation the OP is describing. Take this example:
I have a squadron of F.6 Lightnings at RAF Akrotiri on Cyprus. The max range of an intercept mission is represented by the red circle. This would be a useful deterrent from Soviet MPAs over the Eastern Med. However, if there are bombers coming down the Aegean towards TF 60.1, the Lighnings will scramble to intercept, since the bombers would be tagged as Hostile and would be visible to the side. If there was a "prosecution zone" available for intercept missions, this could be avoided, with fighters only launching to intercept what they can reach, or having a few fighters on "point defense", only launching if Bad guys get fairly close.

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Post #: 9
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 4:16:45 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ok. For some reason I thought the intercept mission was constrained by the range of the interceptor. I'll double check this tonight.

As fas as OP a no navigate zone could work as well.

Mike

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Post #: 10
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/10/2014 8:54:13 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ok looks like the fuel range constraint is still working. See attached scenario.

The Lightnings don't seem to chase a target outside their range.

I'll add the request anyways as it could be used in giving units sectors to intercept and strike in.

Thanks!

Mike

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 9/10/2014 9:56:22 PM >

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RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/11/2014 5:03:56 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Is it possible maybe in a future patch to add a patrol area/prosecution area for intercept mission?

I mean: the aircrafts stay at the airport, but WHEN enemy aircrafts are inside an area they will rush to the position and engage the enemies.


(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 12
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/11/2014 5:14:04 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

Is it possible maybe in a future patch to add a patrol area/prosecution area for intercept mission?

I mean: the aircrafts stay at the airport, but WHEN enemy aircrafts are inside an area they will rush to the position and engage the enemies.



You can already do this:

- Set up Intercept Missions as desired but keep them deactivated.

- Set up an exclusion zone where you want the intercept to happen.

- Set up an event to activate the intercept missions when the enemy aircraft enters the exclusion zone.

- Done, this should give you the effect that you're looking for.

-C

(in reply to Wasicun)
Post #: 13
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/11/2014 6:52:23 PM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		Thank you very much mate!


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Post #: 14
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 4:31:13 AM   
Stevechase

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

Is it possible maybe in a future patch to add a patrol area/prosecution area for intercept mission?

I mean: the aircrafts stay at the airport, but WHEN enemy aircrafts are inside an area they will rush to the position and engage the enemies.



You can already do this:

- Set up Intercept Missions as desired but keep them deactivated.

- Set up an exclusion zone where you want the intercept to happen.

- Set up an event to activate the intercept missions when the enemy aircraft enters the exclusion zone.

- Done, this should give you the effect that you're looking for.

-C

I understand what you are saying and agree. But again what you are saying MUST BE DONE BY THE SCENARIO DESIGNER NOT THE PLAYER. So if I play someones scenario I can not just create an intercept mission in the game that does what you are proposing. What I am asking and I believe the op is really asking is for a new feature that allows the player to create an intercept that simulates reality.


< Message edited by Stevechase -- 9/13/2014 5:37:47 AM >

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 15
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 8:41:03 AM   
Wasicun

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
Status: offline 		I think that a prosecution area option for an intercept mission will be simple and solve a lot of problems.... I don't think it will be hard to implement for developers.

(in reply to Stevechase)
Post #: 16
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 12:52:36 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I understand what you are saying and agree. But again what you are saying MUST BE DONE BY THE SCENARIO DESIGNER NOT THE PLAYER. So if I play someones scenario I can not just create an intercept mission in the game that does what you are proposing. What I am asking and I believe the op is really asking is for a new feature that allows the player to create an intercept that simulates reality.

There's no requirement to shout. The Player can set up Exclusion Zones in a game to tag violators as Unfriendly or Hostile. Since you can set the threat level for an interception mission to Unknown, Unfriendly or Hostile and edit the Exclusion Zone after creating it, I still don't see what the real problem is. You can customize the intercept mission triggers and parameters during a game and without the Editor. Particularly since interception protocols vary depending on too many factors for a standardized one-size-fits-all "intercept" mission, something that is more a matter of personal opinion than a real-world universal, timeless and consistent doctrine.

-C

(in reply to Wasicun)
Post #: 17
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 3:16:53 PM   
VFA41_Lion


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/30/2014
Status: offline 		I'm still holding out hope for some sort of range limiter for aircraft at base for interception missions. Like if in the strike/intercept options, the mission would only launch aircraft from the base if anything unknown/hostile/whatever entered a certain range from that airfield/carrier. Exclusion zones don't work out so great if hostile aircraft are detected and identified well before they enter or approach the zone. :(

edit: i should read the above replies. That should work (i havent tested it) but it is rather clunky. Unless its less clunky than coding in a player-editable range limit. :3 (i hope that didn't come off as condescending...)

< Message edited by VFA41_Lion -- 9/13/2014 4:19:31 PM >

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RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 6:43:23 PM   
Stevechase

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

quote:

I understand what you are saying and agree. But again what you are saying MUST BE DONE BY THE SCENARIO DESIGNER NOT THE PLAYER. So if I play someones scenario I can not just create an intercept mission in the game that does what you are proposing. What I am asking and I believe the op is really asking is for a new feature that allows the player to create an intercept that simulates reality.

There's no requirement to shout. The Player can set up Exclusion Zones in a game to tag violators as Unfriendly or Hostile. Since you can set the threat level for an interception mission to Unknown, Unfriendly or Hostile and edit the Exclusion Zone after creating it, I still don't see what the real problem is. You can customize the intercept mission triggers and parameters during a game and without the Editor. Particularly since interception protocols vary depending on too many factors for a standardized one-size-fits-all "intercept" mission, something that is more a matter of personal opinion than a real-world universal, timeless and consistent doctrine.

-C

Whoaa!!! My apologies. Don't get your dander up. All caps simply denoted highlighted importance. And certainly is not meant to indicate I was angry or frustrated with your reply. Besides I never shout . Maybe I should went bold. Really I appreciate your reply.
Tell you what. Would you consider taking a scenario or create a simple one and setup an intercept mission per your guidelines above or one that you feel accomplishes as close to a solid intercept and upload it here so that I can look at it/test it to see if does what I am asking. In this way I can better describe what or why there are sufficient deficiencies (if indeed there are any) in the intercept. If it does the trick I will gladly say so.

< Message edited by Stevechase -- 9/13/2014 8:10:32 PM >

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 19
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/13/2014 11:27:48 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Don't get your dander up.

No dander, no problem, no offence. I took the caps lock as stating what I should have determined was a blinding glimpse of the obvious or a motherhood statement while I did not think that it conformed to either. Bold or italics are good but I probably overreacted. Sorry.

quote:

Would you consider taking a scenario or create a simple one and setup an intercept mission per your guidelines above or one that you feel accomplishes as close to a solid intercept and upload it here so that I can look at it/test it to see if does what I am asking.

Therein lies at least part of the issue in that I am not sure what effect you want that cannot be simulated. Is the intercept in peace or war? Home territory or third party? What, if any are the ready asset limitations? Are we defending an area or a point? What's the threat? What's our detection capabilities and characteristics? Where do we wish the intercept to take place relative or absolute from the area/point to be protected? Part of the problem may be, unless I misunderstand, that you're trying to fully automate an evolution that is generally under close human control in the real world.

Not all interception missions are equal or even equivalent because not all intercept situations are identical. CMANO allows you to customize intercept missions using the above parameters as a minimum but it appears to be insufficient for what you want it to do. I find that it works pretty well as is and will only get better as the Team improves the event and mission editors.

-C

(in reply to Stevechase)
Post #: 20
RE: Air intercept inside an area? - 9/14/2014 1:42:21 AM   
Stevechase

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

quote:

Don't get your dander up.

No dander, no problem, no offence. I took the caps lock as stating what I should have determined was a blinding glimpse of the obvious or a motherhood statement while I did not think that it conformed to either. Bold or italics are good but I probably overreacted. Sorry.

quote:

Would you consider taking a scenario or create a simple one and setup an intercept mission per your guidelines above or one that you feel accomplishes as close to a solid intercept and upload it here so that I can look at it/test it to see if does what I am asking.

Therein lies at least part of the issue in that I am not sure what effect you want that cannot be simulated. Is the intercept in peace or war? Home territory or third party? What, if any are the ready asset limitations? Are we defending an area or a point? What's the threat? What's our detection capabilities and characteristics? Where do we wish the intercept to take place relative or absolute from the area/point to be protected? Part of the problem may be, unless I misunderstand, that you're trying to fully automate an evolution that is generally under close human control in the real world.

Not all interception missions are equal or even equivalent because not all intercept situations are identical. CMANO allows you to customize intercept missions using the above parameters as a minimum but it appears to be insufficient for what you want it to do. I find that it works pretty well as is and will only get better as the Team improves the event and mission editors.

-C

quote:

Therein lies at least part of the issue in that I am not sure what effect you want that cannot be simulated. Is the intercept in peace or war? Home territory or third party? What, if any are the ready asset limitations? Are we defending an area or a point? What's the threat? What's our detection capabilities and characteristics? Where do we wish the intercept to take place relative or absolute from the area/point to be protected? Part of the problem may be, unless I misunderstand, that you're trying to fully automate an evolution that is generally under close human control in the real world.

Ok. It may be better then if I setup the initial scenario and then kinda give you some basic ground rules as to what is expected for the intercept mission. It may take me a while, after all there is still a lot of college football to be played tonight. But I'll try to have you something tonight or by tomorrow. Cheers

(in reply to Randomizer)
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