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GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6

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GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/10/2014 3:02:38 PM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

Hello,

I am having trouble with the Fighter weapons school - GAT 5&6 scenario. The two F-4s equipped with GBU Paveways will not fire the Paveways against the AC revetments. I have tried Land Strike, Auto and manual attack and no dice. I modified the scenario to eliminate all opfor forces so that my planes would not be harassed and they just circle the revetments until they run out of fuel. The other two F4s equipped with Mk20 Rockeye IIs drop the bombs successfully. I am not sure if this is a bug or if I am doing something wrong, e.g. the Paveways are unable to acquire lock on due to terrain, or incorrect target. The only hint I have seen is weapon outside of boresight. Am I missing something?

Thanks for your help,
Bill

Post #: 1

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/10/2014 3:14:20 PM

scottb613

Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
Status: offline

Hi Bill,

Check your aircrafts altitude vs what it says is required in the DB for a Paveway release... I've found that's the most common issue...

Regards,
Scott

(in reply to billapgh)

Post #: 2

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/11/2014 1:33:49 AM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

Thanks for your help Scott.

The GBU-10A/B (#733) Paveway I lGB KMU 351B/B lists a launch altitude of 10000 - 65000 ft. My planes were approximately 20000 ft and failed to launch. Also I noticed that MCM/POD did not appear to be consistently saving state.

I am concerned this behavior is a bug or a test of my (lack of) knowledge of this game. I would gladly race to the "finish line" after an F-5 shoot down and claim victory for positive points but I doubt that satisfies GAT 5/6 pass criteria :)

Thanks,
Bill

(in reply to scottb613)

Post #: 3

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/11/2014 2:52:46 AM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

What's the weather like in that scenario?

Rain and clouds can impact laser guidance.

Thanks!

Mike

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Post #: 4

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/11/2014 2:30:43 PM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

Hi Mike, thanks for the reply. The weather is set to no rain, relatively clear and calm. (light low clouds 5-7k over target, no rain, wind/sea 2). Changing the cloud cover to none did the trick. Apparently cloud cover over the target (thanks to thewood1 for pointing this out as well) is prohibiting the GBUs from launching. Interesting choice for a default inflexible loadout

. Had the loadout been flexible I would have just changed it without learning. Thanks for your help.

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 5

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/11/2014 3:08:55 PM

DeltaIV

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: EUCCP
Status: offline

Indeed, that's Paveway laser's guidance for you. Either get below the clouds or use some other weapon. They're working on it though, new generation of GBUs (EGBU) will allow preplanned GPS based guidance.

(in reply to billapgh)

Post #: 6

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/11/2014 5:31:26 PM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

I wonder if expecting this to be covered in the auto planner for strike missions is realistic. I guess a better question is would the altitude be planned ahead of time or are pilots expected to compensate for cloud cover in real time? I hesitate to fly low over a SAM/AAA protected target.

(in reply to DeltaIV)

Post #: 7

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/12/2014 12:46:42 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

Yes we have a few items on the list to help improve the mission planner. To a large extent though this game is about planning strikes etc so need to figure out more ways to help players make better decisions as well.

Mike

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Post #: 8

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/12/2014 1:38:33 PM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

Yep, I understand. Thanks again for your help Mike.

-Bill

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 9

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/12/2014 2:53:21 PM

Elouda

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

There's actually an interesting solution to this kind of tactical situation - since the GBU-10A/B supports buddy illumination, and you have two aircraft with these plus a Pave Spike on each, you can have one aircraft drop below 5,000ft to designate the target while the other drops the bombs, and then invert roles. The designator on the Pave Spike has a 10nm range, so you don't even have to be directly over the target, allowing you to keep the designating aircraft (relatively) safer.

I think its stuff like this that shows just how incredible and flexible this game is.

< Message edited by Elouda -- 9/12/2014 3:54:02 PM >

(in reply to billapgh)

Post #: 10

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/12/2014 5:06:46 PM

billapgh

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/10/2014
Status: offline

Agreed Elouda, I did not consider that tactic. I was considering a low level attack under the clouds (5-7k) but the Paveway min drop altitude is 10k. The buddy system sounds like a great solution.

-Bill

(in reply to Elouda)

Post #: 11

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/12/2014 10:55:06 PM

ryszardsh

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline

One below, one above should not work either if it is a cloud deck problem. The target has to be illuminated by a laser and the Paveway has to sense the illumination for relase. Above a cloud deck the Paveway ahould not detect the targeting laser.

RAS

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Post #: 12

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/13/2014 2:30:20 AM

Elouda

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ryszardsh

One below, one above should not work either if it is a cloud deck problem. The target has to be illuminated by a laser and the Paveway has to sense the illumination for relase. Above a cloud deck the Paveway ahould not detect the targeting laser.

RAS

Are we talking in game here or in reality? My understanding is that in reality LGBs (at least modern ones) do not require illumination on release, and in many cases the target is only painted towards the end of the bombs flight. As long as the release is approximately on target the weapon will still have enough time to adjust once it picks up the reflection. I do not know if this was true for older bombs, since presumably the seekers have developed a fair bit.

In game terms I believe this situation is covered by the 'supports buddy illumination' property, which I presume allows a platform to release the weapon if another platform is in position to designate, even if it can't see the laser on release.

< Message edited by Elouda -- 9/13/2014 3:30:52 AM >

(in reply to ryszardsh)

Post #: 13

RE: GBU Paveways not launching - GAT 5&6 - 9/13/2014 2:59:55 PM

ryszardsh

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline

I am unsure about real life LGB - altho I do recall seeing that early generations LGB >2000) do have to "see" a lase for release.

In the game I have struggled with LGB release and thus my post. Often I get a "no reflection, no LOS" message when I try to manually force release, even when I have a buddy unit in flight also lasing. Thus my response. I think I will create a scenario with clouds and a simple target and try multiple methods to see how it works with different generations of bombs.

RAS

(in reply to Elouda)

Post #: 14