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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/1/2014 8:37:13 AM

GreyJoy

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Made some calculations....

if I move 7x30 KI-43 IIb factories along the Oscar line I should be able to get the KI-43 IIIa and the IV for May 1943. Not bad indeed. Once there I may be able (depending on the supplies levels) to move part of those factories (say 4 of them) to the SAM line or the KI-84b (at the moment, only 1 factory is RnDing the "b" version of the KI-84...which isn't good cause many groups will upgrade to the "r" line passing through the "b" one)

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 781

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/1/2014 8:49:03 AM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Made some calculations....

if I move 7x30 KI-43 IIb factories along the Oscar line I should be able to get the KI-43 IIIa and the IV for May 1943. Not bad indeed. Once there I may be able (depending on the supplies levels) to move part of those factories (say 4 of them) to the SAM line or the KI-84b (at the moment, only 1 factory is RnDing the "b" version of the KI-84...which isn't good cause many groups will upgrade to the "r" line passing through the "b" one)

I have 7x30 Ki-43 just to unlock patch for Frank. Several Sentais require Ki-43-IIIa and Ki-43-IV first to get Ki-84a.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 782

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/1/2014 9:21:39 AM

GreyJoy

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Yup...very true tom.

I just don't feel to be finding the right "balance" in my RnD efforts... don't know why but I don't feel really confortable with the present situation of my A/C production and research...

here's the complete list

1x30 KI-43 IIa
1x110 KI-43 IIb
7x30 KI-43 IIb
1x30 A6M2
1x30+1x70 A6M3
7x30 A6M3a
1x90 KI-44a
1x80 KI-45a

(RnD)
4x30 A6M5
4x30 A6M2 sen Baku
3x30 A6M8
4x30 KI-44b
3x30 KI-61 Ia
3x30 KI-45c
1x30 KI-61 Ic (not repaired)
6x30 KI-81 a (not repaired)
3x30 A7M2 (not repaired)
3x30 N1K1 (not repaired)
2x30 J2M2 (not repaired)
3x30 KI-94 (not repaired)
1x30 Shiden (not repaired)

as u may see, the main investment is in the A6M and Ki-43 lines
The idea is to stockpile enough A6M3a immediately, then move 6 out of 7 factories to the A6M5b (while the A6M5 enters into production).
If I'm not mistaken, by june 1943 the "zero" production line should look like that:

1x30 A6M2 (wants to keep a factory going on here cause even in 1945 keep on arriving sentais that are more-or less bound to this old frame
1x70 A6M3 (will produce it for some more months, then i'll move over to the A6M5)
1x50+1x70(the former A6M3 factory)+ 2x50 (enlarged from 30 to 50)
1x30 A6M5b
2x50 A6M5c
1x150+4x50 A6M8

This will free up 8 RnD factories that could be converted to something else (SAM, Frank, KI-83, KI-94??)

At the same time this set-up should give me enough flexibility to be able to correct the mistakes that for sure i'll do with the exact calculations of what kind of A/c is needed for each sentai

The main point will obviously be the supply expenditure. I will see what will be able to do but I will try not to break my economy in exaggerating on the RnD...

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 783

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 6:15:08 AM

Barb

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Ki-43 IV should be a pretty decent plane - armor and 2x20mm CL cannons. Not great durability, but with SR=1 and quite good climb rate they should be allied PITA - both for fighters and bombers.

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Post #: 784

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 9:17:59 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Ki-43 IV should be a pretty decent plane - armor and 2x20mm CL cannons. Not great durability, but with SR=1 and quite good climb rate they should be allied PITA - both for fighters and bombers.

Is a decent plane, for sure. The real weak point is the durability. With ONLY 23, it becomes nearly useless against 4Es because it cannot even get close to them due to the damage it sustains from the defensive fire.
However with a speed of 364 mhp is probably as good as the A6M8. Lower durability (23 vs 27) but better armament (2x20mm CL against 2x20mm F...also the army 20mm are way better than the navy 20mm).

I have faced the A6M8s extensively against MrKane (who used them a lot since 1943) and can say that it is a very good plane (for a "zero" line standards, obviously).
If the Ki-43 IV is just as good as the A6M8, I will be very happy

Unfortunately, few sentais will be using this frame. Many more will be stuck with the KI-43 IIIa, which is just as good/bad as the IIb. But i'll take them!

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 785

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 11:25:37 AM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Ki-43 IV should be a pretty decent plane - armor and 2x20mm CL cannons. Not great durability, but with SR=1 and quite good climb rate they should be allied PITA - both for fighters and bombers.

Is a decent plane, for sure. The real weak point is the durability. With ONLY 23, it becomes nearly useless against 4Es because it cannot even get close to them due to the damage it sustains from the defensive fire.
However with a speed of 364 mhp is probably as good as the A6M8. Lower durability (23 vs 27) but better armament (2x20mm CL against 2x20mm F...also the army 20mm are way better than the navy 20mm).

I have faced the A6M8s extensively against MrKane (who used them a lot since 1943) and can say that it is a very good plane (for a "zero" line standards, obviously).
If the Ki-43 IV is just as good as the A6M8, I will be very happy

Unfortunately, few sentais will be using this frame. Many more will be stuck with the KI-43 IIIa, which is just as good/bad as the IIb. But i'll take them!

A6M8 was cheap 2nd line navy fighter for me, like Ki-44-IIc in army line. Flying at low altitude with decent durability and armor it could take first "super dive" of allied sweeps on back and let K-84 and N1K2-J gain altitude advantage to get revenge. Both were good on escort duty either. I did not want K-43-IV mostly due his high cruise speed. This factor eliminate all late Ki-43 for escort duty for TB&DB bombers.

< Message edited by MrKane -- 9/2/2014 12:26:39 PM >

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Post #: 786

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 2:06:47 PM

crsutton

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Speed is the critical factor with fighters. The Oscar line just never catches up with any Allied fighters.

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Post #: 787

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 2:18:07 PM

MrKane

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Yes it is. But Ki-43 can compensate luck of high max speed with agility. What is rare for Japan fighter near end of war.

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Post #: 788

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 2:35:01 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Yes it is. But Ki-43 can compensate luck of high max speed with agility. What is rare for Japan fighter near end of war.

I find maneuver to be the least helpful trait in game terms. I would rate it as follows.

Speed
guns
durability/armor
maneuver/rate of climb.

Guns and durability are so close that they can flip in order but speed is king by far. Still, the late Oscar is not a bad choice given what the Japanese economy has to work with.

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Post #: 789

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/2/2014 4:42:11 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Speed is the critical factor with fighters. The Oscar line just never catches up with any Allied fighters.

Not that with PDU OFF I can chose.
The only choice Jap player can make is where to invest in order to get it before the normal arrival date.
The Oscar line is the cheapest one, so a good choice imho.
Having some 4/5 Sentais of Oscar IV operating in mid 1943 can be a good reason to invest the needed supplies for RnDing that production line.
The alternative is to spread the RnD effort more on other better planes, but you always have to consider how fast you can get them and how many sentais are going to use them.
Just one example: of the existing sentais, none upgrades to the J2M line.
The first one arrives in sept 1943 and the second one in march 1944. So, obviously, in PDU OFF environement, the J2M line isn't a good mid-war investement

(in reply to crsutton)

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/4/2014 7:23:00 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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Does the speed of your fighters help at all against Allied 4E bombers? I've been looking mainly for high gun value planes. Does the game model slashing attacks etc with speed?

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Post #: 791

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/5/2014 8:45:26 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Does the speed of your fighters help at all against Allied 4E bombers? I've been looking mainly for high gun value planes. Does the game model slashing attacks etc with speed?

Yes, the faster they go, the more passages they are able to make on the enemy bomber formations...

So a KI-45 is just a mediocre plane against B29s, but good enough against B17s.

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)

Post #: 792

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/5/2014 1:49:31 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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cool thank you. I am sure with PDU off its not easy managing the air force!

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Post #: 793

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/9/2014 6:51:54 AM

GreyJoy

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After two weeks of stop, Erik gets back to me as a married man

. Congratulations to him and to his awesome wife, Rachel, that I had the privilege to meet and to dine with (with Erik present, obviously

)!!!
So today we should be able to get this match back on track and running

Where were we again...?

Yes, it's the 4th of August 1942 and Japan's zenith has already passed. The allies have taken back most of the conquered India and now are pushing fast there and along the Marshall islands.
Soon they'll be landing at Tarawa, Makin and Ocean Is. (all these places are heavily reconned).
Japan is trying to prepare the long term perimeter as fast as possible.
For the first of Jan 1943

From East to West

Paramushiro, Marcus, Wake, Maloep, Nauru Is., Kusiae (and Ponape), Shortland, Rabaul, Port Moresby, Horn Is., Mereuake, Darwin (Daily waters), Port Hedland (Exmouth), Cocos, Sebang, Port Blair, Diego Garcia, Attu, Ceylon, Madras, Calcutta, Ranchi, Patna (the so-called "Assam Line").

I repeat that my idea is to force the allies to attack on the CentPac vector. Even the Sopac could be good if they take the NG route.

Let's see what happens...

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)

Post #: 794

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/9/2014 4:30:47 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I repeat that my idea is to force the allies to attack on the CentPac vector. Even the Sopac could be good if they take the NG route.

What's the rational for this? Frankly I think the Marshalls are a pretty decent place to fight for the Allies in 1943 as long as they have their CVs. Lots of atolls that can be built up to decent sizes - but not by Japan. Once the USAAF starts flying 4E there it's going to be hard to stop that juggernaut.

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Post #: 795

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/9/2014 4:36:56 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I repeat that my idea is to force the allies to attack on the CentPac vector. Even the Sopac could be good if they take the NG route.

What's the rational for this? Frankly I think the Marshalls are a pretty decent place to fight for the Allies in 1943 as long as they have their CVs. Lots of atolls that can be built up to decent sizes - but not by Japan. Once the USAAF starts flying 4E there it's going to be hard to stop that juggernaut.

Atolls with decent size? I don't see them. Most of them cannot be built more than AF 4 and have a max SL of 6,000 men. To mount an offensive from there it's really really hard.
I know everybody consider the Marshall/Gilberts a good place for the allies to fight from. But I really don't see it in this way.
What can you bomb with 4Es from the Marshalls? Ponape maybe... but you can't hope to base 200 4Es in the Marshalls... simply no room for them.

However if I can choose I prefer the allies to take the shortest possible route for Japan...the Pacific one... lots of Atoll landings...lots of risks...and a very complex logistic

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/9/2014 6:00:18 PM

rook749

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Atolls with decent size? I don't see them. Most of them cannot be built more than AF 4 and have a max SL of 6,000 men. To mount an offensive from there it's really really hard.
I know everybody consider the Marshall/Gilberts a good place for the allies to fight from. But I really don't see it in this way.
What can you bomb with 4Es from the Marshalls? Ponape maybe... but you can't hope to base 200 4Es in the Marshalls... simply no room for them.

However if I can choose I prefer the allies to take the shortest possible route for Japan...the Pacific one... lots of Atoll landings...lots of risks...and a very complex logistic

I would agree with your fighting options from the Marshall Islands is rather limited, but once the Allies have the Gilbert Islands there are too many airfields that build to level 5 in the Gilbert Islands to hold Marshall Islands for long.

The key airfields in the Marshall Islands are Ponape, Kusaie Island and Ailinglaplap all of which can be built to Level 5. Kusaie Island and Ailinglaplap are withing too many Level 5 airfields from the Gilbert Islands to hold for long. Once the Allies have Ponape and Kusaie you can reduce Truk to nothing then bypass it or take it.

I only care about those three Island in the Marshall Islands, I will have to take more to secure my rear and provide some medium range bomber bases but all I need is those three Island to suppress Turk and open a line of advance between the Solomon/Bismark areas and the Marshall Islands.

If you fear atolls than you are in trouble but atolls are not that bad to take. You need BBs and/or air support, the correct lift, 100% preparation, HQ support and lots of supply.

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/10/2014 12:57:07 AM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Atolls with decent size? I don't see them. Most of them cannot be built more than AF 4 and have a max SL of 6,000 men. To mount an offensive from there it's really really hard.
I know everybody consider the Marshall/Gilberts a good place for the allies to fight from. But I really don't see it in this way.
What can you bomb with 4Es from the Marshalls? Ponape maybe... but you can't hope to base 200 4Es in the Marshalls... simply no room for them.

However if I can choose I prefer the allies to take the shortest possible route for Japan...the Pacific one... lots of Atoll landings...lots of risks...and a very complex logistic

As rook says most of the Gilberts can be built up nicely as well as a few of the Marshall Islands. The Gilberts especially have larger stacking limits and I believe there are a couple of 10k stacking islands in the Marshalls. And the Allies can slowly creep forward under LBA, fast transports, etc, to really reduce the risk here. It's slow but there's not much the Japanese can do to counter except committing the KB.

That being said, a lot of Allied players really muff operations here because they lack the patience to sit through the base building. JocMeister just did that against MrKane. They go right after Japanese bases like under CV/CVE cover w/o much LBA then get burned in the big battle before they are really ready. I've done that before as well which is why I know the CentPac can be a huge trap for the Allies.

Long story short, as long as the KB can threaten the CentPac you will probably be OK. But be mindful of a large Allied buildup. Certainly if the KB is off on the other side of the ocean and the Allies have a lot of LBA here then it could become a problem very quickly.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/10/2014 1:30:24 AM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I repeat that my idea is to force the allies to attack on the CentPac vector. Even the Sopac could be good if they take the NG route.

What's the rational for this? Frankly I think the Marshalls are a pretty decent place to fight for the Allies in 1943 as long as they have their CVs. Lots of atolls that can be built up to decent sizes - but not by Japan. Once the USAAF starts flying 4E there it's going to be hard to stop that juggernaut.

Atolls with decent size? I don't see them. Most of them cannot be built more than AF 4 and have a max SL of 6,000 men. To mount an offensive from there it's really really hard.
I know everybody consider the Marshall/Gilberts a good place for the allies to fight from. But I really don't see it in this way.
What can you bomb with 4Es from the Marshalls? Ponape maybe... but you can't hope to base 200 4Es in the Marshalls... simply no room for them.

However if I can choose I prefer the allies to take the shortest possible route for Japan...the Pacific one... lots of Atoll landings...lots of risks...and a very complex logistic

GJ is right the best avenues of advance for the Allies is via paths that offer level 9 airfields. And there are plenty. Central Pacific just does not offer the air bases. There are much better avenues of approach.

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Post #: 799

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/10/2014 5:32:12 AM

GreyJoy

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Aug 4, 1942

Not much happened.
P-38Es show up again in China. This time over Chikkiang. Just 3 of them.Luckly the A6M3s i sent there arrive before the bombers and down all 3 of them.
We are still pushing south of Chikkiang. A bloody hex. Hope to be able to smash those damned 4 chinese corps. Another attempt is planned for tomorrow.

In SOPAC, fast transports deliver the 148th US IND Rgt at Nadi, where a small SNLF unit of mine is defending... not much hope to hold.

Almost ready to buy a division from Manchuria. Let's see where to send it (India or SOPAC?).

In a general observation, i don't feel very confortable with the perimeter so extended. Too many weak spots now in my defences... i think i need to start asap a clever retreat to safer positions (especially in Western Oz)

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/10/2014 3:48:30 PM

GreyJoy

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Aug 5, 1942

Another bad day in China.

The 6th Attack on the hex south of Chikkiang resulted in another crushing defeat. 1-3 AV ratio and losses are 4 times higher than those inflicted. Chinese units don't even suffer (-) for supplies or distruption (despite the bombing of 200+ bombers the very same turn)...OUCH!Time to rotate my attacking units for the 3rd time in the last month...

We've lost Ndeni (lower Solomons), while our CVs are spotted E of Kusiae and we are forced to retire back to Truk (surprise gone!).

35,000 more allied men are advancing towards Hyderabad...

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/10/2014 5:42:50 PM

MrKane

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Nicola, can you show us China map ?

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/11/2014 6:56:41 AM

MrBlizzard

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I noticed too that whenever Chinese are well fed, it's almost impossibile to dislodge them from good terrain hex.
They have supplies to build forts that cannot be reduced (that is not so correct IMO) and are almost immune to aerial bombing.
So the point is how can they have all these supplies?
I don't think they came from Burma in the short window at the biginning (only a small amount), in my game I thought it was probably a huge air transport through Himalaya.
But in yours?

You own the starting bases in India so I can't figure how they're so rich, what do you think?

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 9/11/2014 7:57:51 AM >

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/11/2014 7:39:27 AM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

I noticed too that whenever Chinese are well fed, it's almost impossibile to dislodge them from good terrain hex.
They have supplies to build forts that cannot be reduced (that is not so correct IMO) and are almost immune to aerial bombing.
So the point is how can they have all these supplies?
I don't think they came from Burma in the short window at the biginning (only a small amount), in my game I thought it was probably a huge air transport through Himalaya.
But in yours?
You own the starting bases in India so I can't figure how they're so rich, what do you think?

Well, here are day one numbers just LI + gift. I do not know how much of those is in hand GJ now.
City Daily Supplies Gift LI production
Changsha 160 16
Changteh 20 20
Chengchow 60 30
Chengtu 180 180
Chungking 400 162
Hengyang 40 40
Loyang 20 20
Kunming 80 80
Kweilin 40 40
Kweiteh 20 20
Kweiyang 60 40
Lanchow 60 60
Liuchow 40 40
Nanning 20 10
Neikiang 20 20
Paoshan 20 20
Shaoyang 20 20
Sian 60 60
Siangtan 20 20
Sining 20 20
Tsiaotso 40 40
Urumchi 20 20
Wenchow 80 80
Wuchow 60 60
------------------------------------------------
1560 1118
------------------------------------------------
Total 2678

So, you need push really hard to burn all those supplies.

(in reply to MrBlizzard)

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/11/2014 12:10:09 PM

GreyJoy

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Here's a map of China. The yellow circles are where our offensives have been stopped cold.
South of Chikkiang is where the chinese are really doing a great job.

Tom's correct: China produces way more supplies than what i can make them consume or destroy. The HR that limits strat bombing to manpower makes China playable (finally).
Alo Erik still has the fuel produced at Sian and Lanchow in order to run also his HI centers.

However...
Aug 6-8, 1942

Not much happened.
A6M5 accelerated to 10/42
Four Divisions are ready to be embarked at Camra Bay.
The 1st ID has been bought at Fusan and now is moving south.

In China we're reinforcing the western vector. Wanna try to use the tanks in that rough terrain west of Kweyang...
In the meanwhile we'll continue to attack towards Chikkiang...sooner or later he'll have to move out those damned 4 corps heavily entrenched that are repulsing all my attacks...(in 2 months they went down to 770 AVs from 1100...).
Aerial bombings continue all over Central China. Little results so far.

Shokaku and Zuikaku are upgraded with Radar and operative

Attachment (1)

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/11/2014 2:35:53 PM

Lokasenna

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I hold to a different view vis a vis Level 9 airfields and the Allied advance.

Japan loves Level 9 (and 8) AFs. The Allies...well, as long as you have enough space for your planes, you're good to go. And you can basically vomit bases out of your LSTs via the Seabees, so...if you choose correctly, you don't need to care about having a L9 AF. It's more work, for sure.

However, there's a downside to fighting against Japanese level 8 and 9 AFs. The Japanese player doesn't have limited aircraft pools to the extent that the Allied player does. If you want to take away the Japanese numerical advantage in the air then you should fight over, near, and for airfields that still have stacking limits, unlike L9 AFs.

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/12/2014 5:33:23 AM

GreyJoy

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Hi Lokasenna,

that's an interesting view! quite opposite from mine. When i play the allies i tend to like AFs lvl 9 even more than when i play Japan. In smaller AFs there always seem to be no space to place my 4Es, the escort and a decent CAP...

Talking about superior numbers... In India now the allies have them both in the air and on the land. Their offensive is ready to begin, i can smell it.
Now the units marching towards Hyderabad are even more...i count at least 3 more divisions...american ones...

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/12/2014 5:51:12 AM

Yaab

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Device 755 is 15cm T96 howitzer. These guns have twice the anti-soft value of divisional 75mm guns and you should have them in big numbers. Maybe you should bring 4 regiments of them , each having 24 guns, and blast the Chinese with 100 such guns coupled with the aerial bombardment? At this point the Chinese have supplies and can replace their losses but they cannot repair disablements since they lack adequate support squads.

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RE: Back from vacations... - 9/12/2014 12:54:27 PM

veji1

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Joined: 7/9/2005
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China is really a matter of crust : When you give them enough time to entrench and they can still have some supply (it will alwasy be scarce, but won't be amiss), well the crust hardens pretty well in an SL game. But if you can puncture it, the middle is still quite soft. As Yaab said, you have to really optimize you offense and be relentless, even if it seems costly, because such a big China in 44 would be a big PITA. Good luck !

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Adieu � Dieu odieux... sign� Adam

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 809

RE: Back from vacations... - 9/12/2014 3:50:53 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Aug 9, 1942

CHINA: Another failed attack south of Chikkiang. Despite the 200 bombers sent in at 6,000 feet and despite the presence of more than 300 tanks, the Japs achieve a mere 1-2. More units need to be rotated out and the Chinese have reinforced the hex with another corp. We won't give up however. Attacks will continue, while the western front is taking shape. 2 Tank Divisions and two Infantry units, supported by 4 artillery units are arriving...

Yes guys, I've bought as many Heavy Artillery units as possible. They aren't cheap however and I cannot buy them all at the moment. Anyway in that hex I have concentrated more than 12 units with 15mm guns and several bigger units (30 and 27 cm tubes). Can't really do much more than that.
I have high hopes for the western front however. In that rough terrain that leads to Kweyang, I think my tanks should be able to make the difference...

INDIA: the allies attack. They bombed bases not covered by my fighters. Losses are high in terms of squads lost and disabled, but the defensive perimeter should be save until he decides to attack my main defensive line.
Bringing back 350K fuel from India to Singapore

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 810