Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conversion?

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Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conversion? - 9/13/2014 1:52:23 PM

aaatoysandmore

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It seems it's been years and still there are no real Squad Leader or Advanced Squad leader conversions to the PC. You'd think with all the money they must have made from the boardgames there would be a PC version by now. I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it was $100 (as long as the AI was reported decent in it). I can't believe it's been this long since the PC age began and no real Squad Leader PC game has been released. The guys that own the initial copyright to it would be rich beyond belief I think.

Oh and I know about Hasbro's or MicroProse's idiotic game called Squad Leader but it was "far" from what Squad Leader is like imo. Far far from it. The closest game(s) I've ever seen that really comes close or reminds me of Squad Leader are Steel Panthers and now recently Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad. Some have said the Close Combat series is suppose to be like it but to me that is another game that is far far from the origional game. Even Steel Panthers has too much animation for me but it does feel somewhat like Squad Leader to me.

I guess I want too much the real down to home tit for tat Squad Leader conversion with all the chits and counters, not lil animated units. I like the game so much I bought two sets of the origional Squad Leader game back in the 70's for extra counters and big maps and just made up my own rules and scenarios.

Post #: 1

RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 2:41:11 PM

wings7

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I'd like to see it too, I guess there is not a big demand otherwise they would!

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 2:45:02 PM

bairdlander2

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Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad is the closest you will get.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 3:01:00 PM

Cataphract88

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I too would love to see a PC version of 'Squad Leader'.

There is a version of this (and ASL) available for the Vassal engine though.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 3:20:37 PM

parusski

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I would also pay $100, maybe more. We can keep dreaming.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 3:26:35 PM

wworld7

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Wings7 correctly answered this question in a broad stroke.

Below, your qualification partially answers why such a project will struggle to generate a viable ROI (Return on Investment) to ever get funded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it was $100 (as long as the AI was reported decent in it).

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 3:51:43 PM

Zap

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad is the closest you will get.

It is?. How close is it to Squad Leader.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 5:07:45 PM

Missouri_Rebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad is the closest you will get.

It is?. How close is it to Squad Leader.

It is in the fact that it is squad based combat. The maps are similar and several things that are also like ASL are;

Scale
Heroes creation
Leaders
DC/Molotov cocktails
Leader rally
Leader bonuses i.e. Attack/rally bonus/movement bonuses
Terrain although definitely not as many types
Support weapons
Smoke
Assault move
The boards
TEM's

What's unlike ASL

Spotting (can be very frustrating because you have to spot enemies every turn unless they are adjacent or have fired although the mechanic has grown on me)
To hit chances
No multi story buildings
Not as many movement types
Much of the victory conditions during campaign include keeping a SMC alive
Not nearly as complex
Cards (several of these have characteristics that resemble some ASL rules)
No bypass movement. You pay full cost to enter hexes
No dash

There are many more similarities and differences.

LnL is a great game that shares a lot with ASL. IMO it should be the wargame of the year. Great action, good mechanics, excellent graphics and much more.

It's not ASL. It doesn't try to be. But it shares enough traits that this ASL fan enjoys it very much.

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 9/13/2014 8:29:19 PM >

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 5:25:04 PM

Missouri_Rebel

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But with all of that said, I'd pay $150!for the base game of ASL and buy every module that would be put out, especially if it were done as good as they did with LnL.

Also FYI, there are a ton of counter and map mods. Not sure how easy they are to use. Look at the modding forum in their forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3583418

< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 9/13/2014 7:20:30 PM >

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 8:54:40 PM

MrsWargamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

It seems it's been years and still there are no real Squad Leader or Advanced Squad leader conversions to the PC. You'd think with all the money they must have made from the boardgames there would be a PC version by now. I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it was $100 (as long as the AI was reported decent in it). I can't believe it's been this long since the PC age began and no real Squad Leader PC game has been released. The guys that own the initial copyright to it would be rich beyond belief I think.

Oh and I know about Hasbro's or MicroProse's idiotic game called Squad Leader but it was "far" from what Squad Leader is like imo. Far far from it. The closest game(s) I've ever seen that really comes close or reminds me of Squad Leader are Steel Panthers and now recently Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad. Some have said the Close Combat series is suppose to be like it but to me that is another game that is far far from the origional game. Even Steel Panthers has too much animation for me but it does feel somewhat like Squad Leader to me.

I guess I want too much the real down to home tit for tat Squad Leader conversion with all the chits and counters, not lil animated units. I like the game so much I bought two sets of the origional Squad Leader game back in the 70's for extra counters and big maps and just made up my own rules and scenarios.

Actually, even though Squad Leader and then on into ASL is likely one of the most famous board game wargames ever made, a veteran of the game will tell you, there is no such thing as a board game that has made money the way you suggested it had been made. MMP resolved to keep the game alive when Hasbro gained possession of it, but the game has not really made MMP rich in usual usage of the term 'rich'. They have trouble affording keeping any of the portions of the product supply for the simple truth that it is not a money making machine.

Those that love the game, are all likely going to just tell you, if you absolutely must play it, and absolutely can't find anyone to play face to face, then you really just need to download VASL and play it remotely via your computer.

If I were to win 50 million tomorrow, none of it would ever find its way into creating a Squad Leader computer game. There isn't any point in doing it.

Your choices are play the board game solo, play the board game via VASL, or accept the fact that Steel Panthers is so close to the experience that you don't really need to look any further.

Conquest of Heroes though is a damned good emulation of all that you might wish to have for a similar experience in a modern game.

Close Combat vs another person is recommendable and Combat Mission vs another person is also commendable. They stumble pretty hard played against the AI though. But then the AI in Steel Panthers is not entirely satisfying either. My main complaint with Squad Battles is the interface. Battle Academy floats my boat the best though, and anyone that can't cope with the graphics of Battle Academy really just doesn't really want to play squad level tactical enough.

We'll be praising the splendor that is the AI in World in Flames long before we ever see an AI play Squad Leader worth a hoot though (I'm assuming you are realizing the sarcasm in that comment :) ). I can't picture myself playing a computer version of ASL even if it as free.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/13/2014 9:33:42 PM

bairdlander2

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Best to buy "Heroes of Stalingrad" for a good "Squad Leader" like game.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 12:38:47 AM

Werewolf13

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If one has ever played much SL or ASL, doesn't have Heroes of Stalingrad and thinks that it will satisfy their PC jones for SL or ASL you'll be sorely disappointed IMO.

Heroes is a fun game and a quick single setting play that looks a lot like SL and ASL (visually looks) but it is neither. Not even close.

No one has yet ported a decent version of either SL or ASL to PC. It'd be cool if it happened but blue isn't my best color so I don't see myself holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 1:35:25 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

It seems it's been years and still there are no real Squad Leader or Advanced Squad leader conversions to the PC. You'd think with all the money they must have made from the boardgames there would be a PC version by now. I'd buy it in a heartbeat even if it was $100 (as long as the AI was reported decent in it). I can't believe it's been this long since the PC age began and no real Squad Leader PC game has been released. The guys that own the initial copyright to it would be rich beyond belief I think.

Oh and I know about Hasbro's or MicroProse's idiotic game called Squad Leader but it was "far" from what Squad Leader is like imo. Far far from it. The closest game(s) I've ever seen that really comes close or reminds me of Squad Leader are Steel Panthers and now recently Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad. Some have said the Close Combat series is suppose to be like it but to me that is another game that is far far from the origional game. Even Steel Panthers has too much animation for me but it does feel somewhat like Squad Leader to me.

I guess I want too much the real down to home tit for tat Squad Leader conversion with all the chits and counters, not lil animated units. I like the game so much I bought two sets of the origional Squad Leader game back in the 70's for extra counters and big maps and just made up my own rules and scenarios.

Actually, even though Squad Leader and then on into ASL is likely one of the most famous board game wargames ever made, a veteran of the game will tell you, there is no such thing as a board game that has made money the way you suggested it had been made. MMP resolved to keep the game alive when Hasbro gained possession of it, but the game has not really made MMP rich in usual usage of the term 'rich'. They have trouble affording keeping any of the portions of the product supply for the simple truth that it is not a money making machine.

Those that love the game, are all likely going to just tell you, if you absolutely must play it, and absolutely can't find anyone to play face to face, then you really just need to download VASL and play it remotely via your computer.

If I were to win 50 million tomorrow, none of it would ever find its way into creating a Squad Leader computer game. There isn't any point in doing it.

Your choices are play the board game solo, play the board game via VASL, or accept the fact that Steel Panthers is so close to the experience that you don't really need to look any further.

Conquest of Heroes though is a damned good emulation of all that you might wish to have for a similar experience in a modern game.

Close Combat vs another person is recommendable and Combat Mission vs another person is also commendable. They stumble pretty hard played against the AI though. But then the AI in Steel Panthers is not entirely satisfying either. My main complaint with Squad Battles is the interface. Battle Academy floats my boat the best though, and anyone that can't cope with the graphics of Battle Academy really just doesn't really want to play squad level tactical enough.

We'll be praising the splendor that is the AI in World in Flames long before we ever see an AI play Squad Leader worth a hoot though (I'm assuming you are realizing the sarcasm in that comment :) ). I can't picture myself playing a computer version of ASL even if it as free.

That is very surprising as I would have thought Squad Leader an Advanced Squad Leader would be in "every" wargamers home over the years. I mean it's still talked about and very much wanted as a computer game. I'm not saying that isn't the truth what you said about it. I just find it hard to believe as it's the best squad level game ever made imho. You are right about the AI in Steel Panthers as well. It's not the greatest thing this side of chocolate cake for sure. I do beat it regularly. I think it just needs a few more difficulty levels or handicapping settings. The maps though do remind me a lot of Squad Leader boards as well as Mark Walkers Heroes of Stalingrad maps. But, he kept saying it wasn't Squad Leader or play anything like it. (those are his words not mine).

As for Battlefront's Combat Mission. While the graphics of it are nice the AI is worse than Steel Panthers. If you don't let it be the attacker in assault mode all the time it's a piece of cake to defeat. Unless you give it 2 to 1 odds and +3 (I guess on the die rolls it gets) there's not much there in the way of challenge.

Now, Battle Academy I do like but how realistic is it? Is it more of a chess or card game with like tanks are 5' and 6's depending on tank and infantry are 2's or 3's? I mean does it really authenticate what the pieces actually represent from WWII? It feels more like a chess match than a wargame. I do like it though.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 2:00:02 AM

Zovs

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I prefer ASL, it still has a very large and thriving community of games the biggest tournament of the year is happening in October (for the last 27 years, this is the 28th year running). Last year there were over 170 people there.

ASL is best played face to face with the counters, maps and dice and most of all a good buddy across the table from you.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 2:17:21 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

I prefer ASL, it still has a very large and thriving community of games the biggest tournament of the year is happening in October (for the last 27 years, this is the 28th year running). Last year there were over 170 people there.

ASL is best played face to face with the counters, maps and dice and most of all a good buddy across the table from you.

and beer, don't forget the beer!!!

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 2:47:35 AM

MrsWargamer

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"Now, Battle Academy I do like but how realistic is it?"

The ONLY way to answer this question is the same way I would be inclined to answer most wargames when the question is asked.

Ok squad level, you take a rifle and you go out in the woods and try to find me, knowing full well I will be trying to find you with the intent being I plan to shoot you. That's the only way you are ever going to experience realistic at the squad level.

Divisional level just means you are in command of a few thousand lives and if you screw up you get potentially thousands of people dead.

That's the only way you're ever going to experience realism.

Battle Academy is great for several reasons. Realism, well that isn't possible in some ways of thinking. The game is played on squares. Some will freak on it for having squares. It doesn't hurt the game play. Some will freak on it for the minor animations. The minor animations reduce the boredom factor, and they don't hurt the game play. The maps are modest, and the sums of units are modest meaning you can play a turn in minutes not hours or days. Because 1000 units doesn't make the game more real, just more work. It rewards a clever crafty cagey play style. If you play dumb you lose. I get the same response in Chess. Some units require more thought than others. I regularly defeat Tigers in the game. They are not super tanks. Sure a Stuart likely can't take one out frontal single shot. And you don't want to try doing it. But like I say I can defeat them easy enough, and often they surrender, not blow up. Because the game models morale as well as armour thickness. They have humans in them. And Tigers are slow moving and prone to break downs and you get more mileage out of the simple units in most cases. Given a choice of a Tiger or 3 mortar squads, I want the mortar squads. Mortars get the job done.

The new Battle Academy 2 has a random skirmish mode which I think is going to be a big hit with the insists on playing solo crowd.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/14/2014 2:53:38 AM

MrsWargamer

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There's really only two problems with Squad Leader/ASL the board game.

Well considering how frequently I see people complain about paying anything past 40 bucks for a computer wargame, and how they got hysterical over World in Flames, realizing that ASL is a game that when you consider a full set of gear new not obtained in some bulk purchase is likely going to cost you somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2000+ bucks.

That and how MMP frequently doesn't have any stock of large chunks of the game available doesn't help.

Generally you won't get a lot of sympathy about game prices from an ASLer :)

Want to see my ASL collection?

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 5:48:46 PM

Hertston

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Who actually has the PC rights for ASL/SL at present? I assume somebody does, and that it's the wrong someone, reluctant to sell at a reasonable price?

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 6:19:48 PM

Zovs

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Hasbro own's the rights to ASL/SL. MMP is licensed to publish the printed game, as far as I know no one has the right to do any PC game. The best or closet thing we have is VASL.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 6:51:14 PM

Jeffrey H.

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FWIW I'd settle for a good adaptation of Combat Commander. I liked SL when it came out along with the first 3 modules, but I never really got into ASL. ASL attracted another sort of gamer than SL, IMO.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 8:35:43 PM

MrsWargamer

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Jeffrey, I think you summed it up nicely. Attracted another sort of gamer :)

I sometimes wish I could turn back the clock, unbuy ASL, and just enjoy the experience that Squad Leader is.

I have even pondered just playing Squad Leader with ASL counters and ignore the details on the counters not relevant to Squad Leader rules and just use them as if ASL had never been made.

< Message edited by MrsWargamer -- 9/16/2014 9:36:20 PM >

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 10:39:03 PM

Zovs

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Sorry I am one of the other sort. I started playing SL in '78 and by the time GI came out it was a complete and utter mess, thank GoodNess for Don Greenwood and ASL.

Oh, lets play this SL scenario, wait which version of SL 3.5 or 4.11? Oh, we need some COI, which version? 2.5 or 3.3, wait you got 4.0? Cool, okay how about COD, 1.91? Nope, I don't have 2.3, GI. 1.0, oh wait 1.75, okay what about the errata from the Generals? Four hours later...wait Errata which?

ASL is the deal man and and has been for 25+ years.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/16/2014 11:30:18 PM

MrsWargamer

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Yep ASL. only costs you about 2000 bucks to play it, assuming you can find it as it is generally out of print right when you need a piece of it :)

ASL. likely THE most substantial example of over tweaked and over rules lawyered in all of wargaming. Although the A3R system and World in Flames can be impressive for that too.

It is possible, the RIGHT choice for Squad Leader might have been to never do anything past it and just hand out sets of new counters and boards of missing nations. But a wargamer not fiddle with a design? That's like asking a woman to be brief :)

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/17/2014 12:57:13 AM

Zovs

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Nope, I started collecting ASL in 1986. Not over tweaked or over rules lawyered at all. In fact anyone that says such has no idea of how ASL is played.

You sound very much like the other fellow that hates ASL, he has never played ASL and wrote a book on how to design ASL scenarios and yet he does not play the game just yaps his mouth. Hum...

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/17/2014 1:44:38 AM

MrsWargamer

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Nah I like ASL, I likely could play it all the time, if I had a FTF opponent. It loses something by itself though. Played most of my games during the 80s as well. My collection is mainly first editions.

But I disagree, I think they took a great idea, and added a bit too much to it. Then forgot why it was called Squad Leader I think. I bought the HASLs but in retrospect, I think I had more money than common sense at the time.

But I think I have bought a lot of wargames before thinking long enough too :) All that glitters isn't golden.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/17/2014 1:58:27 AM

jwarrenw13

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ASL. I loved it. But I never played with all the rules. I played solitaire like all my games, computer or board, and simply used the rules I liked. An example. No prisoners. Ever. I just ignored those rules and other rules I didn't want to deal with. It worked fine for me. A brilliant game, but I think if someone tried to play using all the rules accurately is was very rules lawyered.

< Message edited by JW -- 9/17/2014 4:18:10 AM >

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/17/2014 2:41:07 AM

Zovs

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At the ASL Open (held in the spring in Chicago) there normally is about 50 to 75 people that show up. At the annual ASLOK held every October in OH, around 150 to 200 show up to play ASL.

There is still a vibrant alive community playing ASL, without the 'rule lawyering', there is at least two to three groups in Canada, a couple in Australia, one to two in France, one in Germany, at least one in Italy, and one help up in the northern regions of Europe. There is also two groups that meet in Asia.

Plus there is VASL and Skype.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/17/2014 3:03:49 AM

parusski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

Nope, I started collecting ASL in 1986. Not over tweaked or over rules lawyered at all. In fact anyone that says such has no idea of how ASL is played.

You sound very much like the other fellow that hates ASL, he has never played ASL and wrote a book on how to design ASL scenarios and yet he does not play the game just yaps his mouth. Hum...

I agree with you dlazov66. I started buying, and playing, ASL in 1988. ASL is THE tactical game.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/18/2014 1:14:38 PM

wodin

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Ask Paradox..they bought the digital rights a fair few years ago and did nothing.

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RE: Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conve... - 9/18/2014 1:25:36 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Ask Paradox..they bought the digital rights a fair few years ago and did nothing.

Oh be careful about what you say about Paradox the wrath of Kahn will be upon you. lol

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All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conversion?

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Slitherine

Why are we stil waiting for a Squad Leader PC conversion?