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Brainstorming for some scen. ideas - 9/12/2014 4:17:45 PM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		Hey guys,

Since most of the scenarios available are USA Vs some poor country that's gonna get tomahawked back into stone age,I've always tried to diversify and make Europeans scenario...

But as I'm working on old scenarios I've made I'm already wondering what I could do next.

So what in your opinion would be a nice scenario to create/play ?

here a couple of restrictions :
*Involving european countries
*Nothing pre 1991
*Somehow "plausible"

Lets make some (a)history together

Cheers,

< Message edited by greatTop -- 9/12/2014 5:36:13 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 4:47:35 PM   
DeltaIV


Posts: 161
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: EUCCP
Status: offline 		Hi,

i think that possibilities are endless, you can always make some plausible background.

What scale ? Navy included or aircraft only ?

Some countries that are being neglected in general:

Germany (largish airforce)
Poland (also decent airforce)
Czech & Slovakian Republics (small airforce)
Austria (small airforce)
Former Yugoslavian Republics (Croatia/Serbia/Albania/Montenegro/Macedonia - note that these have mostly small airforce)
Belarus ('decent' airforce)
Scandinavia (Sweden/Finland need some love too, decent airforces both)
Denmark ('decent' airforce)
Baltic states are not very usable
Switzerland ('decent' airforce)
Romania/Bulgaria ('decent' airforce)
Italy/Spain had units also included in some scens, they have both more than decent airforce

We already have some French/Spanish scenarios that feature some naval units.

Proposed (and neglected) naval battle locations:

Strait of Skagerrak/Kattegat
Gulf of Bothnia
Black Sea (have only Ukrainian crisis in this one, i think)
Adriatic Sea
Strait of La Manche

< Message edited by DeltaIV -- 9/12/2014 5:49:31 PM >

(in reply to greatTop)
Post #: 2
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 6:50:28 PM   
AdmiralSteve


Posts: 270
Joined: 3/28/2011
From: Red Bluff, CA
Status: offline 		North Africa and Europe with the Straits of Gibraltar offering a choke point and the potential for conflict. Look at the Navy of France or Spain (neither of which is massive)taking on Algeria (which is not exactly a huge underdog). You just have to create the storyline.
I'd like to get Japan and China in a scenario as well. Plenty of real life stories their.
I have a scenario with the Koreas and I really like it since the north has some potential to fight.

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(in reply to DeltaIV)
Post #: 3
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 7:37:16 PM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		Being patriotic I already did I already did a lot of French & Italian scenarios and published a couple... Plus one was a french hostage rescue in Algeria that ended up in open war which was nice and concerning Italy,pick the country Greece,Libya... I've done them all.
Now to more serious stuff I appreciate the help on european geography but living there and having a fair knowledge of their respective military "mights" no need of lecture on the subject. No offense but I'm looking for more expertise than just "look this is a potential hot zone make up some sh*t"

Delta, I personally always wanted to build a scenario on German forces, but the country having limited power projection capability and no potential enemies on its border it's hard to find something. Maybe a military exercise with a neighbouring country ? Or perhaps new balkan War and german AF strikes ? With the latter option adding Italy and France (from Italian bases)isn't an option I guess. What do you think ?



< Message edited by greatTop -- 9/12/2014 8:49:00 PM >

(in reply to AdmiralSteve)
Post #: 4
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 8:23:59 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe the Baltic in 2020ish? Euro navies vs Russia?

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Post #: 5
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 8:30:43 PM   
Meroka37

 

Posts: 770
Joined: 7/31/2009
Status: offline 		I think Spain is already represented in several scenarios (official and Community Package); I remember some:

- Green Tide
- Canary's Cage
- Comao Training day


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Post #: 6
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 11:17:38 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		What I have done--which probably shows I have too much free time on my hands--is to cobble together a couple of random generators. I use this program...

Inspiration Padpro

And here are two random generators I use to brainstorm ideas (and another one that generates random ship names for merchants, fishing boats, etc.). As with many random generators, a lot of the results will be things where you go "Huh?" but since you can generate up to 1,000 scenario possibilities at a time, they lets you scan a lot of ideas quickly.

(Older version removed. Newer version further down in thread.)

< Message edited by Mgellis -- 9/13/2014 3:33:40 PM >

(in reply to Meroka37)
Post #: 7
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/12/2014 11:36:23 PM   
tommo8993

 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		2nd Falklands war UK vs South America (Argentina has a lot of support in SA)
Big Navy, Carrier warfare. Set it in 2020 and you have new carriers and f-35's. Set it in 2010, Harriers, Ark Royal and Illustrious.


Reading Ken Jacks "United State of Europe". The UK attempts to secede from a federalized Europe. Spain, Sweden, Portugal, Denmark and Norway rally around them, the rest Invade the UK.



< Message edited by tommo8993 -- 9/13/2014 12:38:35 AM >

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 8
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 10:13:31 AM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		Interesting answers, Mgellis I gave a look at your generator and I must admit I'm pretty surprised by the sheer number of propositions !

Tommo I think there already is a modern day Falkland/malvines scenario.

Nevertheless "United States of Europe" is a possible gold mine of ideas. I must admit it could make for extremely interesting scenarios, I'll try to find the book. Would you mind telling me if it escalates and becomes an open war ? Do the US join britain ? Where do the Scottish republic created in 2014 stands in all of this ?

< Message edited by greatTop -- 9/13/2014 11:40:49 AM >

(in reply to tommo8993)
Post #: 9
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 12:58:01 PM   
SSN754planker


Posts: 448
Joined: 10/2/2013
Status: offline 		Mgellis...what program do you use to open the files in that zip?

i think i tracked it down to autodesk, but not so sure yet.

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Post #: 10
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 1:26:01 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SSN754planker

Mgellis...what program do you use to open the files in that zip?

i think i tracked it down to autodesk, but not so sure yet.


I just use the Windows zip program (i.e., highlight the files and use the send to --> compressed file). I can just use the file explorer to copy the files from the zipped folder. To run the generators, of course, you do need Padpro. The files themselves are just scripts and won't run by themselves--you can actually open them in the Windows text editor and edit them from there if you want to tinker with them.

(in reply to SSN754planker)
Post #: 11
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 1:39:17 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greatTop

Interesting answers, Mgellis I gave a look at your generator and I must admit I'm pretty surprised by the sheer number of propositions !

Tommo I think there already is a modern day Falkland/malvines scenario.

Nevertheless "United States of Europe" is a possible gold mine of ideas. I must admit it could make for extremely interesting scenarios, I'll try to find the book. Would you mind telling me if it escalates and becomes an open war ? Do the US join britain ? Where do the Scottish republic created in 2014 stands in all of this ?



More E.U. possibilities...

* E.U. vs. Turkey (assuming Turkey is not able to join the E.U. and that leads to various international incidents, etc.)

* E.U. vs. Greece (Greek economy collapses, E.U. demands concessions, Greece refuses, etc.)

* Instead of the U.S. taking on some country that has aroused the ire of the West, let Europe do it. EUROMARFOR might be sent to deal with some international crisis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Maritime_Force
http://www.euromarfor.org/

By the way, I would add that "The Falklands, Part II" can be done many, many times. What if the next attack takes place in 1990? Or 1995...new ships and planes might be involved. After 2000, Brazil and Argentina are more closely allied than before (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina%E2%80%93Brazil_relations)...so what if the 2015 Falklands War is the U.K. (or the E.U.) vs. Argentina AND Brazil. What if the war takes place in 2020? Or 2030?

All conflicts that have happened in the past can erupt again in the future; all conflicts that have happened in the past could plausibly be part of a Command alternate history scenario (e.g., Falklands II in 1990 did not happen, but it could have...what would it have been like?)

I hope all this helps.


(in reply to greatTop)
Post #: 12
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 2:32:11 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		I'm constantly tweaking the generators...here is a new version (I won't update every time but I think this one makes some real improvements on the conflict generator...)

[new versions below...old version deleted]







< Message edited by Mgellis -- 9/20/2014 6:25:07 AM >

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 13
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 4:57:42 PM   
MR_BURNS2


Posts: 974
Joined: 7/18/2013
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Just a few basic ideas, they may be totally unrealistic but they will do.

British-Spanish conflict over Gibraltar, after the spanish economy collapses and an extremist regime takes over, leaves NATO etc.

Brasil invades French Guiana, similar to fonz´s brilliant Caribbean Crisis scenario, Brasil could pair up with other SA states.

Angola invades St. Helena after big oil reserves were found around the island. Use Angola as Chinese proxy and buff them with Chinese equipment if necessary. Future UK Carrier group and long range RAF flights intervene.


Many South American nations have small decent Air Forces and Navys, what about

Colombia and Ecuador vs Peru fight for claims for fictional oil fields around Galapagos islands. I think their OOB´s would match up nicely, would be interesting to see sea battles with those diesel subs and small units.

Chile vs. Peru, surely there is some silly old conflict that can be warmed up for CMANO.


These aren't really well thought out, but they may provide inspiration for somebody.

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Post #: 14
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 6:11:56 PM   
tommo8993

 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		http://www.amazon.co.uk/United-States-Europe-Ken-Jack-ebook/dp/B004QO9VL0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410631799&sr=8-1&keywords=united+states+of+europe

Yes it escalates into a full scale war. Its not too futuristic so I think its alternate history where the EU became federalized about 2010 and the war happening about 2016ish.

(in reply to MR_BURNS2)
Post #: 15
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 11:04:58 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not really interested in current/contemporary/future scenarios but I think that CMANO is accurate and flexible enough to model weapons and doctrines whether Cold War or to the end of the decade, at least for mature systems.

Part of the reasons why my scenarios Deter, Detect, Defend and Wargasm 1962 were written the way that they were was to test NORAD and SAC respectively, at that particular point in time. Of course it's up to the Player as to how successful this approach was but the I believe that the concept is sound for generating interesting scenarios. Possible scenario examples might be:

- Soviet Echo Class SSGN's were intended to counter USN CVBG's using LRMP or satellites for targeting. How might that have worked from the standpoint of a Red Banner Fleet submarine captain? Before Aegis and after?

- Tactics for defeating or defending SSBN bastions.

- Custom/plausible different air group compositions in CVBG's with similar missions.

As a test vehicle for hardware and doctrines the scenario narrative becomes less important as it can be written as an exercise. A rather spectacular example of this approach is Tomcat84's Red Flag 2017.

-C

(in reply to tommo8993)
Post #: 16
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/13/2014 11:45:11 PM   
mikeCK

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		How about an arctic naval battle over oil rights?maybe Norway v Russia or the EU v Russia?

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 17
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/14/2014 4:45:57 PM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mgellis


More E.U. possibilities...

* E.U. vs. Turkey (assuming Turkey is not able to join the E.U. and that leads to various international incidents, etc.)

* E.U. vs. Greece (Greek economy collapses, E.U. demands concessions, Greece refuses, etc.)

* Instead of the U.S. taking on some country that has aroused the ire of the West, let Europe do it. EUROMARFOR might be sent to deal with some international crisis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Maritime_Force
http://www.euromarfor.org/

By the way, I would add that "The Falklands, Part II" can be done many, many times. What if the next attack takes place in 1990? Or 1995...new ships and planes might be involved. After 2000, Brazil and Argentina are more closely allied than before (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina%E2%80%93Brazil_relations)...so what if the 2015 Falklands War is the U.K. (or the E.U.) vs. Argentina AND Brazil. What if the war takes place in 2020? Or 2030?

All conflicts that have happened in the past can erupt again in the future; all conflicts that have happened in the past could plausibly be part of a Command alternate history scenario (e.g., Falklands II in 1990 did not happen, but it could have...what would it have been like?)

I hope all this helps.




A lot of things to answer to :

Mgellis, I do to believe Greece(EU) Vs Turkey whatever the timeframe since the Cyprus invasion is an extremely viable source of scenarios for command, I remember trying to build one just after buying the game... Can't remember what went wrong but I should give it an other try !
Now I already did a Italy Vs Greece, Although I need tweak it a bit this week... Operation Sulla
Anyways, as you pointed out EU countries have quiet a lot of multinational "non-standing" military forces and cooperation agreements between them, which look good (on paper). As you said,it would be interesting to build a scenario around an European Task force intervening somewhere in the world to resolve a crisis instead of the US. This would most probably be my next scen. project !

PS: I think the The Lancaster House Treaties (2010)is by far the only true start of military cooperation between two European countries that isn't defensive since... Well WWII with the creation of the Combined Joint Expeditionary Force. Imagine the HMS Queen Elizabeth escorted by two Type-45s next the Charles de Gaulle and 2 Horizon-class with a couple of FREMMs in the mix...


< Message edited by greatTop -- 9/14/2014 6:42:28 PM >

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 18
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/14/2014 4:49:24 PM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

Just a few basic ideas, they may be totally unrealistic but they will do.

British-Spanish conflict over Gibraltar, after the spanish economy collapses and an extremist regime takes over, leaves NATO etc.

Brasil invades French Guiana, similar to fonz´s brilliant Caribbean Crisis scenario, Brasil could pair up with other SA states.

Angola invades St. Helena after big oil reserves were found around the island. Use Angola as Chinese proxy and buff them with Chinese equipment if necessary. Future UK Carrier group and long range RAF flights intervene.


Many South American nations have small decent Air Forces and Navys, what about

Colombia and Ecuador vs Peru fight for claims for fictional oil fields around Galapagos islands. I think their OOB´s would match up nicely, would be interesting to see sea battles with those diesel subs and small units.

Chile vs. Peru, surely there is some silly old conflict that can be warmed up for CMANO.


These aren't really well thought out, but they may provide inspiration for somebody.



Your UK(With or without scotland ) against an Angolan 2017/18 army buffed up by Chinese military hardware, and the constant progress and modernization of their armed forces for the last decade would make for a brilliant high intensity, small to medium sized scenario !

< Message edited by greatTop -- 9/14/2014 5:50:26 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/14/2014 5:17:43 PM   
greatTop

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline 		@Randomizer, you are absolutely right. The scenario shouldn't be that important as what I do generaly is simply testing out a country military capacity at a certain given time... But sometimes it's just fun to create a whole new alternate history around it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeCK

How about an arctic naval battle over oil rights?maybe Norway v Russia or the EU v Russia?


What comes to mind immediately and is related to current events is the rising tensions between Russia and Canada over the Artic. And regarding Norway and Russia I think there are already a couple of extremely well done scenarios on the subject !

Perhaps something like that: Arktika 2016 trespassing on Canadian EEZ claimed by russia is borded and seized by candian special forces during the night. The crew is detained on the ship until evacuation by a ship of the RCN the next day, but a Russian SAG isn't far away either... Blabla Canada Vs heavier Russian naval force have to hold the position until the cavalry arrives (perhaps a USN SAG sailling in the area). Or make it playable on the Russian side ?

(in reply to greatTop)
Post #: 20
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 9/20/2014 5:26:08 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		[old files deleted]






< Message edited by Mgellis -- 10/3/2014 3:56:28 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/3/2014 2:58:23 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		[posted deleted...new files posted below]








< Message edited by Mgellis -- 10/4/2014 2:28:30 AM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 1:29:32 AM   
pandoraefretum

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 9/27/2013
Status: offline 		I second the Falklands war

(in reply to tommo8993)
Post #: 23
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 1:29:32 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline 		New versions of the random generators (and a new generator, randomly creates Soviet "aid packages" for Third World nations). Various bugs fixed...I hope. :) New versions posted 21:30 EST Oct. 3 2014. Enjoy!





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 24
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 6:41:29 AM   
jtoatoktoe

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 10/9/2013
Status: offline 		If it isn't already in the game, maybe a Greece vs Turkey over Cyprus.

Or a modern Israel against a modern Arab Attack, though you might want a deeper ground campaign, but you could try to overwhelm the Israeli Air force and it could be interesting as many of the local Arab nations have F-16's and some F-15's as well, mixed in with some Russian, it could be a interesting battle.

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 25
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 3:23:14 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jtoatoktoe

If it isn't already in the game, maybe a Greece vs Turkey over Cyprus.



Even if it is, some situations lend themselves to a large number of possible scenarios...

For example, say Greece has landed forces to help Cyprus finally get rid of Northern Cyprus; they will also use bombing raids, naval blockades, etc.; Turkey, not surprisingly, disapproves and plans to stop the Greeks...

Okay, if the attempt took place in 1985 (two years after Northern Cyprus declared its independence), the units would be very different than if the attempt took place in 1996 or 2003. And what if one of Greece's allies, a former Soviet republic like Bulgaria, decided to assist in a 1992 operation? And so on.




(in reply to jtoatoktoe)
Post #: 26
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 6:45:34 PM   
Coiler12

 

Posts: 1203
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Ran the generator.

"Canada vs. regional warlords, 1987"-Hockey fan brawls?

"Israeli war with Lebanon (1982-1985) escalates into a proxy war--main factions backed by regional or global powers"-Kinda already was?

"International coalition vs. Micronesia, 2020"<-Now that's a naval power so big it needs an international coalition to stop!

All quite uh-interesting, I think.

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 27
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 8:41:01 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1529
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: offline 		Greatop....... I like this thread.... I've been thinking about this subject..... I should learn to design some scenarios myself… But here are some things I've been thinking about but I would like to see…

^ Scenarios that are not designed just for gaming quality… But that are also possible or plausible in the real world or future world..... So the game is actually becoming an educational tool…
^ that scenario briefings would be structured and use similar protocols to real military theater/operation/Mission briefings....
^ that there is plausible Intel on opfor .... ..
^ that on opfor assets and order a battle are or somewhat realistic to the theater in the given time period.....
^ some scenarios can't be in balanced… Because that's life… And it would be more about management of prosecution of the mission…
^ that if the scenario mission is one that is planned… That they start with plausible assets OOB with some plausible loadouts...... And disposition…...

I think there are currently great opportunity of defining scenarios emphasizing European and NATO allies with what is currently going on in the region of the Black Sea and Eastern Mediterranean… One country that needs more attention… Without doubt is Turkey... They are a critically important ally… whatever happens in East Med and Black Sea regionis is vital to their interests… And they have a large arm force and population to support it…

There are also a lot of opportunities for scenarios and West Pacific Indian Ocean…

I also like the scenario notion of scenario designs of large theater operations being broke down into subcomponent scenarios.....

I'm really glad you asked us to respond for input to your interests in scenario design… Good luck… I'll be looking for your stuff…


< Message edited by magi -- 10/4/2014 10:02:30 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 11:04:39 PM   
AbuM

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/29/2014
Status: offline 		If you want something in Europe, perhaps something based on the incident at Pristina airport and what if things went the wrong way with it?

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Post #: 29
RE: Scenario Brainstorming - 10/4/2014 11:52:31 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Coiler12

Ran the generator.

"Canada vs. regional warlords, 1987"-Hockey fan brawls?

"Israeli war with Lebanon (1982-1985) escalates into a proxy war--main factions backed by regional or global powers"-Kinda already was?

"International coalition vs. Micronesia, 2020"<-Now that's a naval power so big it needs an international coalition to stop!

All quite uh-interesting, I think.


Oh, yes, you are definitely going to get some results that make you go, "Huh?" The generators are designed to give you a lot of ideas really fast, so you can scrap a bunch of them and still have plenty left over. Or just hit the "go" button again. :)

In fairness to the three ideas above, however...

Canada vs. warlords, 1987: After the kidnapping and murder of four Canadian students in a small West African nation, Canada sends a task force centered on a Protecteur-class AOR carrying 3 CH-47F helicopters and three platoons of Canadian commandos. While the three destroyers escorting the AOR bombard the coastal towns that are home to the warlord responsible for these atrocities and guard against the armed speedboats (which is the closest thing the warlord has to a navy), the commandos will seek him out and dispatch him!

Israel-Lebanon turns into a proxy war...well, it could be a bigger proxy war. Maybe the Soviets will get directly involved--no invasion of Israel, that would trigger a response from the US, but maybe the Israelis will get a bit of a surprise in the form of a Soviet squadron flying alongside their Syrian allies.

International coalition vs. Micronesia, 2020...maybe it's a really small international coalition, like one frigate from New Zealand and some Australian and Malaysian OPVs. Technically, you know, if you had two patrol boats, one from Tonga and one from New Guinea, that would still count as an international coalition. :)


(in reply to Coiler12)
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