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RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no MrKane please

 
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RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/27/2014 5:40:25 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I don't see it as an invasion. Perhaps I am wrong, but his closest support is far away in Oz yet.

An attempt to engage in a major fleet action, yes. An attempt to draw Japan's defenses here, to DEI, yes.

Does Mr. Kane have enough ships left over to invade in the centpac somewhere?

I just don't take anything he does at face value. But, I am probably wrong. Batten down the hatches! I kind of feel like Stalin -- no Germany isn't attacking, you are mistaken.

Definitely feel free to ignore my suspicions.

But that screenshot is an eye opener and no mistake!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/27/2014 6:52:14 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1441
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/27/2014 7:33:35 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Can you post please the main combat report of CV clash? Thanks

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Blizzard

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1442
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 2:45:44 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have to say I am on pins and needles here waiting to see what happens!

I counted the BB spotted -- 21.

Good luck!

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 1443
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 4:55:46 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		July 21st 1943

Air Losses: 3 Japanese, 5 Allied, 3 Pilots
Japanese occupy:
Allies occupy:
Japanese land at:
Allies land at: Tjiltjap

Subs

E Fukue is lost to a sub near the home isles.

SS Scamp is badly damaged near Balikpapan.

DEI

At no time have the naval aviators reported any amphibious assault forces. Then the Allies land on Java. Heavy bombardments and in the bombardment we see he has landed:
quote:


Ground combat at Tjilatjap (51,102)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2132 troops, 12 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 78

Defending force 45222 troops, 815 guns, 871 vehicles, Assault Value = 1419

Japanese ground losses:
105 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
85th Naval Guard Unit
30th Engineer Regiment
3rd Indpt SNLF Coy

Defending units:
766th Tank Battalion
24th Infantry Division
7th Infantry Division
25th Infantry Division
767th Tank Battalion
226th Field Artillery Battalion
181st Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
249th Field Artillery Battalion
183rd Field Artillery Battalion
208th Coast AA Regiment
260th Coast AA Regiment


So that is three divisions landed in one day by surprise. I think the problem is that I had too much naval search so they spotted all the BB in the assault task force and didn't see any of the interesting ships because of the 10 ship reporting limit.

A few D4Y4 try night strikes on carriers and a few are lost to flak but no hits scored.

Solomons etc.

Quiet

Engineering

Quiet.

Production

A6M5d-S to 4/44
N1K2-J to 4/44

Reinforcements

Quiet

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1444
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 5:07:12 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		What to do now?

I have a Division, some regiments and a few smaller units in strategic mode that should be able to reach Tjilatjap next day. I have more that can arrive in 3 or 4 days.

I'm going to fly in some Helens for ground strike and put as much LRCAP over the hex as I can afford with the hope that I can thin out his carrier fighters. Then a day or two later send the D4Y4 and torpedo bombers in on naval strikes.

My remaining carriers will rearm, refuel and then poise to strike if he pulls his carriers back at some time.

Subs report an APD force off the North-West Cape so that may be has base forces heading in on a fast task force.

Most of his BB have shot their ammo in bombardments so will have a long trek back to rearm. However, his CA are unused so if I send SCTF in they will be tangling with his CA and DD. I'll position what I can at Merak.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1445
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 6:02:00 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Java in '43... very bold and very risky
Next turn will surely come a direct attack at Tjilatjap, if you send your reinforcements in they will be caught in strategic mode so will suffer a big malus. To unpack them it will take 2, 3 more turns so even if they manage to resist by chance the first turn they will probably be crushed later. Unless you can heavy bombard by air or sea the enemy.
I'd bring in many reinforcements (you're plenty of chinese divisions aren't you?) before attacking, trying to isolate the Landing with the navy and LBA. If you can manage to prevent him to bring more LCU you can win.
There's a very long road for him to reinforce his bridgehead from Australia. Maybe you can manage to attack his CV from 8 hex, or attack his reinforcements ships on the road.
I believe he will bring many AKE to resupply his BB.

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 9/28/2014 7:22:18 PM >

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Post #: 1446
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 6:17:52 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery
At no time have the naval aviators reported any amphibious assault forces. Then the Allies land on Java. Heavy bombardments and in the bombardment we see he has landed:


Fooled me, and it is worrisome. What was the avg exp of your naval search squadrons? That is alot of attack shipping! Jocke got very good at doing this - maximizing loads for landing. I guess every Allied player does eventually.


Just throwing out ideas here:

Try not to throw your bombers away until you can gain Air Superiority. Have something sweep too...don't rely simply upon LR CAP. Lousy Allied AA there.

Unless you have exp 80+ guys doing night attack don't bother unless you simply want to eat up the ships ammo, which Helens at 15K can do quite nicely with minimal losses and is probably a better use for them in the short run until you have gained air superiority.

What is in Tjilatjap now? Will it hold for a day? Forts level?

Any destroyers you can race in and hopefully race out? You might interfere with his offloading, cause collisions, get lucky, etc. Three ship task forces...they will be very efficient at least, probably die, but oh well...

Mines. Aerial mining?

Low naval Emily torpedo runs...pick a lower aggression leader and they might not fly into the heaviest CAP hex. 24 hexes to Tjilatjap from Koepang, what is it to his carriers? pick a few less hexes and have the Emilies strike from there you might get some TF without CAP.

He needs base forces...both there and will he land on dot bases nearby to create advanced air bases? West of Sumatra? South of Java?

Where will the other shoe fall? Where are the Aussie troops? Marines? Watch the Marianas, Kuriles, but your focus has to be stopping him here I think unless you have as much oil and fuel as you want.

Watch out for paratroops.

Attack his naval supply line somehow...somewhere. Can you raid in the centpac for example?

Your game will never be quiet again!



















(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1447
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 6:19:12 PM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline 		What is the fort level? If it's not 5 or higher I'd think it too risky to rail in those reserves just to have them shattered while they're still in strategic mode. Best to take control of the air and begin other deliberate preparations to clear the island. Did they take a lot of disablements during the landing phases? I'm assuming they had 100 prep points and would be in good shape after landing.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1448
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 6:19:30 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

Java in '43... very bold and very risky
Next turn will surely come a direct attack at Tjilatjap, if you send your reinforcements in they will be caught in strategic mode so will suffer a big malus. To unpack them it will take 2, 3 more turns so even if they manage to resist by chance the first turn they will probably be crushed later.


My experience is that combat throws them out of SR mode...I think. Hasn't happened much, thankfully.

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 1449
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 6:43:22 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		My two cents.

Take a deep breath. Don´t panic. You will have to give up on Tjilatjap but that doesn´t mean you have to give up on Java. But you will have to throw everything you have at him and you need to throw him out. If he can establish a good foothold with numerous supporting bases it will be very hard for you to dislodge him. Your biggest concern right now is if he has 4-6 more IDs sitting on xAKs waiting to unload once Tjilatjap is secured...he will have BFs and engineers with him. That you can be sure of...

Don´t throw your LBA away without the KB. Sweep him to death but save the strike planes until you can combine it with a KB strike. Your LBA won´t break through. Not a chance. Their job will be to wear down the CAP for the KB to smash through. But start sweeping at his LRCAP right away.

You simply cannot allow him a foothold in the DEI this early. Focus everything you have at throwing him out. How many IDs can you get to Java and how fast? If you have to pull them from SOPAC, CENTPAC and Burma do so. Better allow him space there then give away Java.


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1450
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 7:12:33 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		The focus may be Java, but don't forget Palambang. Get a significant fighter presence over that base as quickly as you can, and try to get something to Balikipapan and Miri as well.

The whole reason you defend Java is to protect the oil, if there's no oil, there's no point fighting.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1451
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 7:27:13 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

What is in Tjilatjap now? Will it hold for a day? Forts level?


No, not after the level of bombardment it suffered.

Didn't think it was possible to sweep friendly bases so the only way to engage enemy LRCAP over the hex is to send a strike and Helens seem a more reliable way to do that than using a naval strike.

KB isn't in a fit state for a strike except I could position it 8 hexes from Tjilatjap on the other side of Java where the Allied CV can't strike. How do I keep it from reacting forwards?

I have 3 full divisions on Java at the moment and can add 2 more within a week if not subject to air attack. Then there are another 2 a little further out.

Good question as to what the Australians will do. 2nd Marine is on Namatanai and I expect more attacks in that area. Don't see how he can attack Marianas or Kuriles with only the 2 later Essex CV. If he pushes against Southern New Guinea, New Britain, Ponape, etc. he can have them.

All NavS pilots have 70+ NavS skill, experience varies from 60-75.

Aerial mining only works once the base falls, and I still haven't worked out how to do it...

Can't send any SCTF in for 2 days.

The consequences of being in strategic mode seem very unclear. There are some reports that it is quite minor but I think it may depend on how many other troops are in the hex. Troops arriving in strategic mode won't be bombed or bombarded so may be a lot better than troops in the hex anyway.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1452
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 7:42:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I don't know if it will work or not by try Sweep: commanders discretion. I was always curious if you could sweep enemy carriers that way...probably not. Maybe save your planes for when the base falls?

KB reacting: pick a very low aggression leader? Pray?

Really stinks about the naval search.




(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1453
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 8:09:01 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Nice tight delivery package there. Well orchestrated.

I would ask... What is Mr. Kane going to do next? Where might he land? Where is he going to go first?

You are in a bit of a pickle as I believe his planes are upgrading to better models that can actually defend well. Assuming he does what he does with other games the pilots will be very well trained.

My guess is that there will be a follow up either locally or globally. Be careful not to react too quickly.

/ end fortune cookie

_____________________________


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1454
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 8:34:25 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I believe you can sweep a friendly base if there are enemy LCU inside.
You have a good number of divisions for holding till all your reinforcements come in; I believe MrKane need some more bases before moving away with CVs to give mutual support. I believe he will bring much more forces maybe landing in another point, there are some few nice locations on the south Java coast.
To prevent his CVs reacting and moving towards yours you have to jump in undetected in your start position.

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 9/28/2014 9:35:39 PM >

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(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1455
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 9:08:23 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....

Does he already own Christmas Island IO? It will be vital for his reinforcement

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 9/28/2014 10:09:15 PM >

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(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 1456
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/28/2014 9:31:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....

Does he already own Christmas Island IO? It will be vital for his reinforcement



Gee, Wargmr, have any experience attacking thru the DEI?


(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1457
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 12:24:04 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....

Does he already own Christmas Island IO? It will be vital for his reinforcement



Gee, Wargmr, have any experience attacking thru the DEI?





Tiltijap was the 2nd to last hex I took on Java due to the terrain and access. The last one was Bandoeng because it is not bombardable by the ocean hexes. And that is where Mr. Kane will be moving next. He will then move the armor east to the plains and cut Java in half.

At least that is what I would do.


< Message edited by Wargmr -- 9/29/2014 1:26:11 AM >

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1458
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 1:29:12 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		He could just as easily land 3 more divisions at Loemadjang in south Java too. Cutting Jave in half makes sense, and is routinely done.

It is going to be clash of the titans here I guess...


(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1459
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 9:05:02 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

To prevent his CVs reacting and moving towards yours you have to jump in undetected in your start position.


His CVs can't react towards me because there will be an island in the way. It is to prevent mine reacting into range of his that I want.

There is a comment that a TF set to follow another wont react so I may do that.

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 1460
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 9:06:38 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He could just as easily land 3 more divisions at Loemadjang in south Java too. Cutting Jave in half makes sense, and is routinely done.

It is going to be clash of the titans here I guess...




Loemadjang was where I considered a landing most likely and have put some defensive forces in place.

He could use sub-assaults to grab Semarang and other bases on the North coast of Java.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1461
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 9:07:33 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....

Does he already own Christmas Island IO? It will be vital for his reinforcement


No but he could take it without too much difficulty.

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1462
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 9:08:16 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....


No it doesn't. One thing about MrKane is to expect the unexpected

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1463
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 9:51:48 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		Some rough economy estimates.

Assume I can reduce supply and fuel usage to an average of 25,000 supply and 5,000 fuel per day for the rest of the game.

If I keep the DEI and Burma producing until end of October that would give me enough supply to last until about end of April 1945. Each extra day the DEI remains in production gives 1.5 days more with full supply.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1464
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 10:27:13 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

The location of the invasion tells you where he is going next....


No it doesn't. One thing about MrKane is to expect the unexpected


I think you are dead on, so keep your search up. However a forced deep island invasion in places where you are fairly strong (Marianas, Bonins, Truk, seem relatively unlikely since most of his BB are heading back to Oz for ammo; without heavy aerial bombing prior. I think...

Still, your economic analysis forces you to throw the kitchen sink at him here in Java. Let loose the dogs of war.

I take it you have slowed down your pace of turns while you counter Mr. Kane's strategy. If yes, what is an acceptable amount of time? Do you feel pressured to flip the turn to keep the game going?




< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/29/2014 11:54:28 AM >

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1465
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 1:05:57 PM   
setloz

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/14/2013
From: Romania
Status: offline 		It's a very bold move to invade Java this early, especially considering that you can bring 7 divisions and more in quite short time.
I would plan for a kitchen sink here as Lowpe already said.

His LOC is quite long and he will need to secure several other spots, including the Christmas Island IO. All of these present you with oportunities to strike.

And if you do manage to stall him here, it will be hard to resupply and it should present you with even more oportunities to strike.

Anyway, I wanted to say: Good Luck!

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1466
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 3:18:38 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		July 22nd 1943

Air Losses: 3 Japanese, 1 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy:
Allies occupy: Tjilatjap
Japanese land at:
Allies land at:

Subs

Various ASW attacks.

DEI

The Allied Armada heads SW from Java, probably heading for resupply. A sub finds them and is damaged and 2 Glenns are lost to CAP. No other Allied task forces located.

The attack at Tjilatjap easily captures the base.

Bombers fail to fly against it and anyway the Allied CAP has withdrawn.

Solomons etc.

Quiet

Engineering

Quiet.

Production

Quiet

Reinforcements

E Mutsure, SC Ch 48, SC CHa-46

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1467
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 3:37:28 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

I take it you have slowed down your pace of turns while you counter Mr. Kane's strategy. If yes, what is an acceptable amount of time? Do you feel pressured to flip the turn to keep the game going?


My original player wanted advert was for 1 turn a day. I consider at least doing 2 turns a day sufficient. Things have slowed down a bit recently because of other demands on my time and Tom has, sometimes, been slow to respond in the evening/morning. So if there is no turn to capture my interest in the morning, I may not look again until the evening. As it happens, probably won't be any turns next week.

Added: we have a number of times stated to take as long as is needed. I may push off doing the pilot checks for a few turns to get a turn out but otherwise I aim to do everything that I think needs doing.

< Message edited by Spidery -- 9/29/2014 4:39:01 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1468
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/29/2014 3:48:16 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		A few philosophical musings.

Barring a miracle I am not going to win this game. I've had only one major success (China) and a few minor defeats and victories. To get to the end in 1946, Japan needs more than a few major successes and what is needed for a major success grows as the game progresses.

However, that doesn't matter as the fun in the game is dealing with the day-day, month-month and year-year operations. MrKane's attack massively increases the fun level as I try to defeat this incursion without overly weakening other defenses and making sure that if I fail to drive the Allies out of Java I will be able to manage an orderly retreat.

Also,

Lots of good advice folks and please keep it coming. However, I may well ignore it because I want to try things for myself and see how they work out. Not having got this far before I am almost completely in the dark in predicting what the result of many actions will be. I like this, it seems a pretty good approximation to the real world situation so is more fun.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1469
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 9/30/2014 9:23:20 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		July 23rd 1943

Air Losses: 4 Japanese, 2 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy:
Allies occupy:
Japanese land at:
Allies land at:

Subs

I-170 puts a torpedo into BB West Virginia near Tulagi.

I-34 has a lucky escape as she is hit by a dud torpedo from SS Barb.

2 xAK near Makassar are hit by torpedoes but neither sinks.

DEI

Most Allied forces have withdrawn but a new task force is reported approaching.

BB bombard Tjilatjap does only light damage.

Allied forces are heading NW, tanks have run on ahead. I think I will see how much I can bomb them.

An aerial minelaying mission against Tjilatjap fails to fly - I do wish I could find some confirmation that is supposed to be possible.

Solomons etc.

Quiet

Engineering

Davao airfield to 5.

Production

Quiet

Reinforcements

Quiet

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1470
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