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Global war setup - 10/1/2014 8:07:16 PM   
YellowNo5


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Can a few of you veteran gamers send save files of the global war scenario after setup? I am finding it overwhelming just to setup and play the game. I know there are some presets you can load but then you still have to setup all the units and planes. I am just asking as I would like to look at these setups and to try to play a game without the headache of setting up.

OR is there already something like that out there?
Post #: 1
RE: Global war setup - 10/1/2014 11:05:47 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowNo5

Can a few of you veteran gamers send save files of the global war scenario after setup? I am finding it overwhelming just to setup and play the game. I know there are some presets you can load but then you still have to setup all the units and planes. I am just asking as I would like to look at these setups and to try to play a game without the headache of setting up.

OR is there already something like that out there?



Hi YellowNo5, I am not the real expert others will follow, having a slight problem with your question, presets you can load? Maybe you are referring to the Fast start programs of each scenario.

Maybe there is presets but I am not that astute, Actually I love to set up the different scenarios as I do not like to play with fast starts due to the lack of many optional rules, just a suggestion if I may, have you played this computer game at all before this. If you have not then your in the wrong scenario.

I would suggest Barbarossa first to get used to ground and air combat, easy to play. Next I would tackle Guadalcanal and learn the naval moves, they are both reasonably short scenarios of 5 turns, when you jump into Global war you better be prepared, it is not for the light of heart.

Set up is not a headache, I find it enlightening to be able to put units where you think they could start out doing the most good, I have set up from scratch Global war many times in testing it. When the two half scenarios are finished, Day Of Infamy and Fascist Tide it will be even easier to deal with setting up. Hoped that helped.

Bo



< Message edited by bo -- 10/2/2014 12:09:12 AM >

(in reply to YellowNo5)
Post #: 2
RE: Global war setup - 10/1/2014 11:52:35 PM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline
quote:

Can a few of you veteran gamers send save files of the global war scenario after setup? I am finding it overwhelming just to setup and play the game. I know there are some presets you can load but then you still have to setup all the units and planes. I am just asking as I would like to look at these setups and to try to play a game without the headache of setting up.

OR is there already something like that out there?


just use restore setup, and default scrap.

that uses my setup, I have made many years ago

that setup all units that are not random .. convoy, HQ, ship etc.

< Message edited by michaelbaldur -- 10/2/2014 12:54:15 AM >


_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 3
RE: Global war setup - 10/2/2014 12:04:15 AM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
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after restore setup.

all you have to do is select land units and air units. and place them on the map.

the biggest headache are convoys. can´t say that mine is ideal, but they are there.

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 4
RE: Global war setup - 10/3/2014 12:21:00 AM   
Numdydar

 

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Since the force pool for every game is randomized, have a 'default setup' would mean that everyone would start the game with the same units (and in the same locations). So what would be ideal would be a library of different setups from different games/people so that the units and setups would be different depending on which one was used. Now if only 'someone' could start something like that

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 5
RE: Global war setup - 10/3/2014 12:46:52 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
So what would be ideal would be a library of different setups from different games/people


+1. Ideally we should at least have a selection of FastStart saves available for the different scenarios for Novice/Standard/Advanced default options and for historical (or as close as possible) and alternate setups. If this could be further refined by side or major power, then that would be nice. But certainly we could get more FastStart saves to choose from, yes?

quote:

Now if only 'someone' could start something like that


Surely there are experienced players with nothing better to do (when they're not whining and complaining about something), while we wait for the remaining issues to get resolved. Put up or shut up. Geez.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 6
RE: Global war setup - 10/3/2014 2:09:59 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
So what would be ideal would be a library of different setups from different games/people


+1. Ideally we should at least have a selection of FastStart saves available for the different scenarios for Novice/Standard/Advanced default options and for historical (or as close as possible) and alternate setups. If this could be further refined by side or major power, then that would be nice. But certainly we could get more FastStart saves to choose from, yes?

quote:

Now if only 'someone' could start something like that


Surely there are experienced players with nothing better to do (when they're not whining and complaining about something), while we wait for the remaining issues to get resolved. Put up or shut up. Geez.


Thank the lord Numdydar I am not one of those experienced players Different setups would be nice IMO, the only problem I might have with that is the two different die options, I know that is minor, some players might like to play with the one die some with the 2 die, I think that would lead us to make up too many fast starts, could be confusing with 20 fast starts in your MWIF library, just an opinion.

Now I am not an experienced player as having never seen the game until I became a beta tester, but in testing for the last 2 years and listening to the "very experienced beta testers" I have learned the game or at least portions of the game.

This is just me now but I really like doing new game setups, I realize that Global war can be a bear to setup but I enjoy it as you get to learn the map better with setting all those countries up.

I personally rarely ever test Global war because as a tester I am not supposed to play the game I am supposed to test the game but of course I play the game too I have setup Guadalcanal new game at least 6 or 7 times with different optional rules trying this and that. I never test fast start anymore.

Forgive me for saying this but why do players want different fast starts put into the game, those fast starts would be at the whim of the beta testers and myself, you might not like where we position the units of different nations.

The most logical way IMO to do this is to create from scratch [new game] your own setups and then save those setups, I understand as a gamer I don't want to read the rules I don't want to do setups I just want to jump right in and kick butt this game has so many options that exploring them is the heart of this game.

I also believe that when Steve inserts Day of Infamy and Fascist Tide into the scenarios a lot of the negativity will go away even though right now we still have a few problems, I really like the 2 map scenarios instead of Global, now that's just me, as I am a beer and pretzel player you know faster play with less nations.

Bo

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 7
RE: Global war setup - 10/3/2014 2:25:06 PM   
Numdydar

 

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I agree Bo. But there a lot of people who just want to learn how GC works without having to worry about how their units are placed. Or which ones to scrap, etc. So these people (I am one) would love to see different setups with different options, etc. as an examples. AAR are nice (and thank you for yours. I actually read them ) but those are hard to follow if you are trying to replicate them in a game yourself.

So I really think a library with different options like pzgndr stated above would be a big help to newcomers to the game. And maybe some experienced players too Or maybe every AAR should provide a save game for the beginning of the game so at least that way it would start building a library of sorts.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 10/3/2014 3:27:30 PM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 8
RE: Global war setup - 10/3/2014 5:20:50 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I agree Bo. But there a lot of people who just want to learn how GC works without having to worry about how their units are placed. Or which ones to scrap, etc. So these people (I am one) would love to see different setups with different options, etc. as an examples. AAR are nice (and thank you for yours. I actually read them ) but those are hard to follow if you are trying to replicate them in a game yourself.

So I really think a library with different options like pzgndr stated above would be a big help to newcomers to the game. And maybe some experienced players too Or maybe every AAR should provide a save game for the beginning of the game so at least that way it would start building a library of sorts.


I agree too about a library of setups, but they will have to be setups done by Steve or the beta testers and what I am trying to get across [maybe doing a poor job of it] is that it will be done according to our preferences, how we like to place the units and not the players preference who purchased the game. There is a library started, and the first one is Fast Start, hopefully some more can be added to the library but I am afraid that is above my pay grade

That is why I felt, maybe wrongfully so, that a new player can set up his own setups and save them which I thought was a nice feature created by Steve. An AAR would be a very good idea to have in the game files.

One other thing the set up is critical to how a player thinks he will handle his naval movements and such in Guadalcanal and in Day of Infamy.

In Guadalcanal do I set up the Japanese carriers In Singapore, Truk, Rabaul, or the Japanese home islands? On and on, do I set up the game with one die or 2 die there is just to many options in this game, one might satisfy one player and the other player might hate the set up.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 10/3/2014 7:59:17 PM >

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 9
User Setups - 10/3/2014 9:23:03 PM   
Omnius


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From: Salinas, CA
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Wouldn't the Scenarios and Mods Section be the place to go for or upload starting games for any scenario?

Omnius

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 10
RE: User Setups - 10/3/2014 11:04:09 PM   
Extraneous

 

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For a more detailed discussion on the game...

The War Room



For some suggested setups and strategies go to...

The War Room ~ Strategy Discussions

And pick a country.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 11
RE: User Setups - 10/8/2014 1:48:32 PM   
ByronBond

 

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I'm going to throw in my two cents on the side of adding some fast starts with setups from experienced players. A couple months back I almost posted the same request YellowNo5 did, but then recognized the challenges of optional rules, random force pools, etc and so did not. Numdydar articulates my own thinking very well.

MWiF IS complex, and while many (most?) players love the challenge of finding that optimal setup, I'm willing to start with someone's elses setup as a springboard into my own game, using it as a learning tool, or heck, maybe even play the whole game through from that point on. MOST wargames do not let you choose your starting units or force pool, so in my mind, starting with someone elses intitial setup is no different than setting up a game where the designer determined where everything went and I had no choice in the matter. Loading a saved game would, for me, be akin to duplicating one of the setups in the WiF Annuals from over the years. True, it may not be my creation, but it's educational and useful in its own right. And with a library of sorts, if it were properly organized so you could get a feel for which rules were in place, the user of those saved games would be able to choose one probably very close to their own preferences. Or not, which might be an easy way to try other options without having to go through the entire setup.




(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 12
RE: User Setups - 10/8/2014 3:33:03 PM   
brian brian

 

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I guess customer requests, especially multiple requests, are worth fulfilling, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around this one. If you don't want to set up several hundred pieces to start the game, I'm not sure how much interest you will have in moving several thousand pieces each turn in the middle of the game and later. Can't someone just move the D-Day assault units into position for me?

Also, it should be repeated … the best way to learn the combat systems are to play the two introductory scenarios, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal, which have the lowest amount of units. Guadalcanal in particular has pretty few setup decisions to make. If you haven't tried combat in the simple scenarios you will quickly be in over your head after starting the Global War scenario with some pre-determined set-up. Perhaps the Barbarossa scenario would be best suited to using a default set-up, but even in that one, there aren't all that many set-up decisions to make as there are rules on where the units go, and then the same circular question in this post appears …. if you don't want to pick a hex for a unit to start in, do you want to pick which units attack the other units on the first go? You have to start making decisions somewhere.

Not a lot happens at the start of Global War, most of the time, due to the weather. Germany conquers Poland (quite easily). Then all powers maneuver their units around to get ready for the main event which gets going when the good weather appears in the spring of 1940. So you could use a default set-up in Sep/Oct 1939 but you would then most likely end up moving all the pieces to where you really want them later.

And … World in Flames is a strategic level game, and less so an operational one. This means that the Germans don't win by taking that ridge on the other side of the map from where they start, so your options are a frontal assault or overloading a flank. The decisions on what to do are much, much deeper than that. You end up making operational decisions for each country in different parts of the map, sure, but those are subset of the strategy decisions you make.

Using a default set-up for many countries would then mean you are picking someone else's strategy. If you don't want to decide a country's strategy and just want to mash the pieces together to see what happens, you will never be very successful playing this game.

Let's look at each Major Power's initial decisions at set-up for Global War:

USA - actually nothing to decide. Dump everything into two big stacks in Washington D.C. and San Diego. Done.

USSR - huge decisions to make. They can operate in their areas allowed by the Nazi-Soviet Pact (Rumania, Finland) right from the get-go. They can just simply sit in Poland conservatively applying pressure on the Germans while they campaign in France. The Russians can set up in an offensive or defensive posture in Manchuria. They can consider campaigning in the Middle East. It is your Red Army, you decide.

Italy - a few minor decisions, as they have an option of attacking Yugoslavia I guess. But the Italian forces almost all start in Italy, and the Axis naturally want them to conquer things outside Italy. So after they set up, you have to decide where they will be going anyway. I guess it would help to note that La Spezia is their best fleet base, but if you have played the Guadalcanal scenario you would recognize that immediately.

China - probably the most difficult one to set up, with a new map now, and the basic problem of this is still being a solitaire game. Perhaps a default set-up would help the most here. There is no grand strategy decision to make, only operational land combat decisions to consider. You have to set up before you see which axis of advance the Japanese select, and they have excellent sea mobility to work with … anything can happen. Experience with retreating the Russians in the Barbarossa scenario would be critical to running the Chinese in a first game of Global War.

France - some basic tactical decisions to make. If this is your first game, you probably won't have to worry about the Germans blitzkrieging into Belgium in mid-September 1939. It is easy to forget that you will be adding four Reserve units to the set-up on the first Allied impulse, that is a key reminder. Otherwise, your units probably won't see combat for several turns and then you have to be in charge of which one goes where anyway.

CW - the land units are simple. They should be in a port, so they can move somewhere, again at your decision. The main set-up decisions they make are for the Royal Navy, which is so huge it matters little which exact ships you assign to Force H and which go to Home Fleet. Over time you will learn the nuances of the factors on the counters and how that influences where you send them (hint: put the good AA factors in the Med), but to start you just give each main force some Battleships and some Carriers and things will work out fine. The Asian fleet can start in Aden so it can instantly join the Mediterranean fleet. The Indian and Pacific oceans will of course be quiet for the Royal Navy until sometime in 1941.

Japan - a main strategic decision to make is to consider an early war with Russia, but that is a complex undertaking a new player will pass on most likely. Then you have to set up in China. China has tropical weather in the south (you can campaign there during the winter months), and more classical European type weather in the north (war grinds to a halt in the winter). There are resources to approach in each area, and you can choose to hammer on only one of the two Chinese factions. It would gain the Japanese army little to have a pre-ordained set-up which couldn't possibly be based on where the Chinese have focused their defense. It would quite likely be a detriment to use a default set-up. The IJN will have little to do for several years and it matters little where they start.

Germany - somewhat tricky to set up. For a first game, you simply need to conquer Poland on the first turn. You have overwhelming force to do it with, and the Rhine river, the neutral Benelux countries, and US public opinion to shelter you from any Allied adventures in the west. You don't want the French to get four corps across the Rhine to activate Yugoslavia, but in a newbie game it is unlikely the Allies would reach that conclusion anyway. The Poles actually set up after you, but as long as you have a bit of good stuff in East Prussia and Czechoslovakia both, there is nothing their set-up can do to hurt you.


I agree that setting up that many pieces is a bit of a daunting task. But things only get more challenging as you go into the game. The old tag-line on the box of many a war-game applies massively: You are the Commander. YOU decide.

< Message edited by brian brian -- 10/8/2014 4:42:08 PM >

(in reply to ByronBond)
Post #: 13
China Sea 1947 Showdown - 10/13/2014 9:30:52 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowNo5

Can a few of you veteran gamers send save files of the global war scenario after setup? I am finding it overwhelming just to setup and play the game. I know there are some presets you can load but then you still have to setup all the units and planes. I am just asking as I would like to look at these setups and to try to play a game without the headache of setting up.

OR is there already something like that out there?



YellowNo5,
I just uploaded a saved game file of my current game. While it isn't a saved game to start a scenario it is one that gives you a rare look into what things could be like in 1947. I set up a massive naval battle in the China Sea and remembered your request. I had a blast playing it through the first time so made sure to save it for future reference so I can enjoy it many times.

I put in some notes about the situation and things you should look for like invasions that are ready to go. You'll enjoy being able to play a major naval battle right off the bat and when done you'll be able to explore many other aspects of the game like carpet bombing and having a supply of offensive chits to use as the USA. I saved it in the Mods and Scenarios section of the forum and the thread title is the same as the title for this reply.

Omnius

Sorry I couldn't figure out how to attach a link to my saved game in the Mods and Scenarios section.

< Message edited by Omnius -- 10/13/2014 10:32:51 PM >

(in reply to YellowNo5)
Post #: 14
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