[FIXED B579] SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not possible.

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[FIXED B579] SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not possible.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [FIXED B579] SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not possible.

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[FIXED B579] SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagemen... - 10/12/2014 3:45:32 PM

Michal Pielaszkiewicz

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/23/2014
Status: offline

Hi!

First of all, as it is my firs post - I would like to say hello to all of you.
I appreciate devs efforts to polish this remarkable game! Great job guys!!

My case was already reported for SA-5, but I can not paste links as a new forum user.

although I found that SA-2 will also never engage ANY flying target without additional EW site/Interceptor fix.

I understand that adding EW sites can resolve mentioned problem, but it makes me a little confused... If I would like to create scenario with a lot of SA-2 Bn air defense sites - it's very ease to disable whole system by damaging EW radars. And it's strange for me if I would need to group each SA-2/SA-5 with EW radar able to fix targets.

As I can see - HF Radars do not fix target altitude, but form the other player side RWRs can see HF Radars emitting signals.

As attachment a paste small test scenario with SA-2 & SA-5

With best regards!
Michal

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 10/25/2014 9:07:26 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/12/2014 5:03:33 PM

ComDev

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline

Noted, thanks! One of the guys should look into it shortly

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(in reply to Michal Pielaszkiewicz)

Post #: 2

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/12/2014 11:32:06 PM

AFIntel

Posts: 157
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Saginaw, TX
Status: offline

Hello Michal,

Unfortunately it's been a few months since I've gotten to play and I'd have to look at what CMANO incorporates
when you set up an SA-2 site. So the information that I am posting below may be out of date.

With that being said, I don't know if this will answer your question and/or solve your problem.

A real-world SA-2/3/5 will always be paired with an early warning (EW) radar OR have connectivity with a nearby
EW site. The reason being is that these older systems do not have built-in acquisition capability.

As an example that I've posted elsewhere on this forum board: think of the FAN SONG target tracking radar (TTR),
the radar that guides the GUIDELINE missile from an SA-2 site, as a soda straw. If I was to place you out in a field
and told you to look through a straw and slowly pan around the sky to be able to see an aircraft at 35,000 feet and
20 miles away, you'd probably have a very hard time acquiring the target (visually, in this example). What you
need is someone next to you with wide-angle binoculars (alas, an EW or acquisition radar!). This person could sweep
the skies with the binoculars, acquire the target, then tell you EXACTLY where to point your "soda straw" to visually
acquire the target.

In reality, when targeting an SA-2/3/5 site, we'd blow up the FAN SONG and not the acquisition radar. Why? An SA-2
site can only function with a FAN SONG, whereas it can utilize a numerous variety of EW radars to acquire targets.
I'd prefer to go in, bash the FAN SONG and make the system inoperable. I don't want to just go in and hit the SQUAT EYE,
TALL KING, etc. because the SAM operators could very easily pull in another acquisition radar to replace it.

I know this is kind of rambling, but hopefully may help you.

Bottom line: older Soviet SAMs without an onboard acquisition radar (like the STRAIGHT FLUSH on an SA-6), cannot
effectively function without their nearby acquisition radar.

Hope this helps...

(in reply to Michal Pielaszkiewicz)

Post #: 3

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/13/2014 7:20:16 AM

Michal Pielaszkiewicz

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/23/2014
Status: offline

Hi AFIntel,

Thank you for your explanation, I'am newbie and you've opened my eyes for issue that I didn't even realize before... You forced me to read ausairpower website for last two hours :)

It's very clear and understandable what you write, although I've briefly check Baloogan Wiki (as I do not have access to game right now) and for example game's SA-2 Bn is equipped with:

1 x Spoon Rest Radar
1 x Fan Song Radar

SA-5 Grp has in its components:

3 x Square Pair
1 x Odd Pair
1 x Tall King

I believe that Spoon Rest & Tall King should do the job and acquire incoming targets? Am I wrong?

Brgds!
Michal

(in reply to AFIntel)

Post #: 4

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/14/2014 1:24:42 AM

AFIntel

Posts: 157
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Saginaw, TX
Status: offline

You are correct. Originally, the USSR established their SA-2 sites with a SPOON REST as the site acquisition radar;
the SA-3 usually used a FLAT FACE, the SA-5 the TALL KING (because of the range of the SA-5, it needed a long range
acquisition and height finder that could look out a long ways).

I only have limited experience in the game (my computer is stacked in a corner as a major home renovation is on-going;
I only access the internet via my iPad and my wife's computer. I haven't played any wargames since summer

)

Therefore I don't know how accurately the sim represents a true integrated air defense system (IADS). In reality,
an SA-2 in most Cold War era countries would not have to rely exclusively on its on-site acquisition radar; it would
also get information fed into it by other nodes in the IADS.

If CMANO DOES accurately reflect an IADS, destroying an on-site acquisition radar won't defeat the SAM, but would reflect
a delay in the SAM being able to acquire and engage a target. From what I've seen from the sim, I believe it does have
the capability to simulate this.

Because, let's face it, the game is awesome...

(in reply to Michal Pielaszkiewicz)

Post #: 5

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/25/2014 8:07:00 AM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Fixed issue in Build 579.

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(in reply to AFIntel)

Post #: 6

RE: SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not pos... - 10/25/2014 2:01:01 PM

AFIntel

Posts: 157
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Saginaw, TX
Status: offline

You guys are faster repairmen than a plumber!

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 7

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [FIXED B579] SA-2 & SA-5 HF (?) Radars issue, engagement not possible.

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