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AAR (Battle 1, North Africa - WWII Campaign) - 3/27/2001 3:34:00 PM   
Latka

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
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Well, here's the first in what I hope to be at least a couple AARs for this week. As you'll see, it's rather long-winded. :D ------------ Begin AAR ------------------ German WWII Campaign 1/5/42 (Battle 1) "Agedabea", North Africa. 1700hrs. Visibility 38, Weather Clear German Advance vs British Advance (If this seems strange with me jumping from past to present tense and back again, that's 'cause I was trying to write while playing ) My forces (I was given like 4300 points to go "shopping"...oh, happy day!) Mechanized SS Company Motorized (Mech?) Rifle Co Medium Panzer Platoon (PzKpfw IIIj) 4 88mm ATG with trucks 4 76mm Pak 36s with trucks Motorized Engineer Co 2 SPW-251/17 20mm AAA Halftracks 3 Snipers ------------------------- After getting my butt whipped by several different nationalities and their mechanized Infantry Companies, I finally hopped on the bandwagon and decided to try it. I loaded up my troops and guns in trucks, and to my suprise, only the snipers were left without transport. No big deal though, those guys are supposed to be able to eat snakes and dirt and stuff :) Opened the engagement with an arty barrage (105s and the rocket trucks, forget which type). I then raced forward with the Panzers and followed with the troops in SPW-251/1 Halftracks and assorted trucks. Into the 2nd turn, I spotted British scout cars, some Crusaders, and Mk VIb (Inf support tanks?). Thankfully, my Panzers scored a few hits at roughly 30 hexes, and for that period, their fire was unanswered. As they harrased the approaching vehicles (which became trucks that "pooped" out troops), I quickly scooted my trucks up to the front to drop off all the ATGs. In the next turn or so, I truly appreciated the speed with which all my mechanized forces had moved - the British arty strike landed *way* behind where I was. (Now to keep moving and not get caught in the next one!) The 88s and Pak 36s came up "on-line" soon after I dropped 'em off. The Paks did a good job at dropping a few Marm-Herr III cars (they stick that damn 2 pound gun on just about everything!), but for their efforts they drew some pretty heavy return fire. The 88s did an equally impressive job. (I had divided the engagement area roughly into horizontal quarters and placed an 88 in each "sector). A few Crusaders were dispatched...one 88 gun crew had the skill and luck to destroy 2 of 'em, and both were fairly low percentage shots. Now that the AFVs were occupied, I snuck my Halftracks up and started dropping off the troops. They quickly joined the fray, attacking the British rifle platoons and assorted crewmen in their areas. Up in the Northern part of the map, I managed to really bloody the nose of the thrust up there. The 88, the Pak, and the Panzer concentrated on the AFVs while the 4 groups of Infantry + MMG started laying waste to the infantry. Thinking that I had pinned them fairly well, I rushed forward with a few of the Machinegun equipped Halftracks and attempted to polish off the infantry...but, the surviving Crusaders didn't seem to like that too much - I drew quite a volley of fire (those friggin' 2 pounders again), and both my Halftracks ended up smoking wrecks. Thankfully, after suffering some pretty heavy losses, the enemy infantry turned tail. In the center of the map, I was engaged in a 12 - 15 hex Infantry vs Infantry firefight. My 88 and Pak in that section were trying to work on the AFVs in the area, and the infantry trying to inch their way across to engage the British at closer range. Once again, I suffered a Halftrack loss or two (Jeez, these guys are going to ALL be walking by the 2nd battle!). Figuring that this would be a good time to call in my meager reserves, I committed the rest of my forces. 1/2 of my engineers (err... should have swapped out some infantry positions, but oh well) went south, and the rest went north, hoping to sneak completely around to the rear. The southern folks drew some fire as they passed the already entrenched SS troopers, but all of the Halftracks made it out to where I needed them and dropped their Engineers off. Then things got a little ugly for me. I lost 4 Halftracks and one Panzer in the UK turn. He took a couple of losses, but I was so wrapped up in trying to figure out my next move that I neglected to see which ones they were. My next turn, I moved the Northern force further into enemy territory. It was then I discovered 50 British Infantry , all within about 5 hexes of eachother (20 in one hex alone!). A quick call to the 105 battery...but those rounds would come a few turns later. By this time (only into turn 4), the targets were getting sparse in the northern section for my ATGs, so I called up the trucks to re-locate them. In the south, I decided to shift one of the guns slightly to give it a better field of fire...but my truck broke down on the way there. Jeez! It's hard to find good help these days :) I managed to do some damage to the infantry, but once again at the expense of a few halftracks. Honest...I'm not moving them up into the enemy lines, it just seems that with twin machineguns they draw a pretty heavy volume of fire in return for their actions. In the center of the map there's a height 20 hill. On top of that is a cluster of VPs that my engineers are trying to take (they started out as two groups of 10 and one of 8). Well, what I thought was going to be a cake-walk has turned out to be quite a bloody battle. The Brits managed to get 3 scout cars up there, and they've been mucking up the whole operation. I did manage to set one of them on fire with the flamethrower though...muhahahahah. The other guys can't get close enough to do the same thing, so I've started a couple of Panzers up to that location from where they were. Well, for their part, the Brits are definitely making me think of alternate plans. In the center of the map I've lost a few more Halftracks (thankfully I still have about 6 or 8 left), but I managed to claim a few vehicles during the British advance. The "clump of 50" Brits has now almost doubled...but the area they're in has as well. I am hoping I can finish off the work in the southern part (as well as the north) so I can collapse my forces in on the rear of the advancing troops. Well, in a perfect world I'm sure it'd work that way! Hahaha...thankfully I don't have to worry about one of Wild Bill's famous counterattaks (or counter-counter attacks) in this campaign. I'd be dead meat if I did! Ahhh... things FINALLY seem to go my way. In the center "hill battle", A brave little group of Engineers that had thier position overrun finally came up out of the supression long enough to destroy a Crusader that had wandered too close. In the south, things were all but taken care of as the two Panzers in the area wiped out the rest of the AFVs. In the north, 3 Halftracks of Engineers managed to scoot along the top of the map undetected and drop in amongst the British Rifle Squads. They managed to destroy 3 British Rifle sections and chase off a 4th. That'll help my efforts up there. Now... if the Arty hits and my Pak and 88mm guns can get up to save the day... And THEN the Arty arrived. The British troops were still nicely clumped together, and all 6 of my 105s pounded the area, with significant British casualties. I called for fire on the same area with the hopes that I could get off a few more barrages before my troops had to move in. Down in the south, I pushed past the line where the burning British vehicles were and encountered more 2 pounder fire which claimed both of the Panzers marked for that area. My halftracks uncovered a few 2" mortar teams, and those were engaged with maximum machinegun fire. Back on the "Hill" in the center, I had finally repelled the attack. All around there were burning British AFVs, thanks to my Engineer troops and their satchel charges / flamethrowers. Too bad sand doesn't burn, 'cause I'm sure I'd have a nice brush fire going by now! :) (Turn 11) The end is near! This turn I received only sporradic fire from the British, while the rest of the rifle squads that were caught in the Artillery Meatgrinder popped smoke and turnedtail. Hmm...actually, I may have spoken too soon. While all the enemy AFVs have been destroyed, their Infantry and ATGs are definitely still alive. In the south, I am uncovering little pockets of those damn 2-pounder guns. I rushed forward with two Panzers thinking I could ferret them out, but the end result was two smoking hulks of German armor. Hmpf! They're too close to my troops to call Arty in on 'em, so I guess I'll have to coordinate some Infantry attack. Hahaha... in one of the funnier events to happen in a while, one of the crews from the PzKpfw IIIj that got hit earlier rushed forward and destroyed the very ATG that took them out. I guess there *is* some order in the world afterall! Argh - now I'm finding out why you don't have your main force comprised of Engineers - those guys just don't carry enough ammo. The Southern push is almost complete, with just two 2 pound guns remaining before it's all clear. The northern section is shaping up fine, just some stragglers left there. The center section (on some British VPs) still has a fair amount of Infantry occupying it, but thanks to the Arty there is nowhere near the number that started out. Is there something about the MG34 in the desert? I swear, like 50% of my MGs have broken down (granted, these were usually on Halftracks that were later destroyed, but...). (Turn 18) Finally, the south is clear. The northern part of the map is mostly clear, but I've still got to find those 2 pounders...and now that they've destroyed all my AFVs in the area, I get to do it on foot. Joy. I'm going to swing my troops from the south up and try to close off the British Infantry in the center. Time to close down the Arty, 'cause they've been shooting kinda wild the past few turns. Don't need any unnecessary supression on my guys. (Turn 21) Whew... finally pushed the Brits off of the Victory points in the center. I used the Engineers quite extensively there. Once they get within 1 hex of the enemy, they tend to chew 'em up rather quickly. I guess it has something to do with the fact that nobody likes to be on fire :) Now, to push out to the east and destroy those pesky remaining 2 pounders. ...and I fought to a draw. A DRAW? Jeeeeeeesh. All that for a draw. Here are the final results: ------------------------------------ LOSSES: Ger Men - 290 UK Men - 897 UK Arty - 40 Ger / UK Soft vehicles - 3 each Ger APCs - 24 Ger AFVs - 10 UK AFVs - 28 Points Germany 4645 UK 2499 ------------------------------------- Thanks to those of you who actually read the whole thing! -Andy

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Post #: 1
- 3/27/2001 8:23:00 PM   
lnp4668

 

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
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Quit tempting us with morsels. We wants to play now, wah, wah :p

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"My friends, remember this, that there are no bad herbs, and no bad men; there are only bad cultivators." Les Miserables

(in reply to Latka)
Post #: 2
- 3/28/2001 1:49:00 AM   
Fabs

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 6/5/2000
From: London, U.K.
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Excellent AAR, had great fun reading it, but what about mechanized SS in North Africa? As far as I know, no SS units ever fought in that theater.

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Fabs

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Post #: 3
- 3/28/2001 4:42:00 AM   
Latka

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Status: offline
Hey, I've never claimed to be historically correct :) This was a version 4.5 game, not the Mega Campaign. Sorry if anyone got the wrong idea! -Andy

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Post #: 4
- 3/28/2001 7:24:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Latka: ------------ Begin AAR ------------------ German WWII Campaign 1/5/42 (Battle 1) "Agedabea", North Africa. 1700hrs. Visibility 38, Weather Clear German Advance vs British Advance (If this seems strange with me jumping from past to present tense and back again, that's 'cause I was trying to write while playing ) My forces (I was given like 4300 points to go "shopping"...oh, happy day!) Mechanized SS Company Motorized (Mech?) Rifle Co Medium Panzer Platoon (PzKpfw IIIj) 4 88mm ATG with trucks 4 76mm Pak 36s with trucks Motorized Engineer Co 2 SPW-251/17 20mm AAA Halftracks 3 Snipers ------------------------- After getting my butt whipped by several different nationalities and their mechanized Infantry Companies, I finally hopped on the bandwagon and decided to try it. I loaded up my troops and guns in trucks, and to my suprise, only the snipers were left without transport. No big deal though, those guys are supposed to be able to eat snakes and dirt and stuff :) ...and I fought to a draw. A DRAW? Jeeeeeeesh. All that for a draw. Here are the final results: ------------------------------------ LOSSES: Ger Men - 290 UK Men - 897 UK Arty - 40 Ger / UK Soft vehicles - 3 each Ger APCs - 24 Ger AFVs - 10 UK AFVs - 28 Points Germany 4645 UK 2499 ------------------------------------- Thanks to those of you who actually read the whole thing! -Andy
Here are a few comments, based off my German WWII campaign experiance and my current British WWII campaign experiance. Motor/Mech infantry are just spam in a can. One good size AT gun hit wipes out both the squad and a vehicle. The only time infantry isn't fast enough on foot is that lousy sandstorm battle that plagued me in both my German campaign and in my British one, 3 visibility and infantry moving 1 hex a turn, armored cars moving something like 6 or 7 hexes a turn. If you have to get there fast, paras or spec ops are a faster way to get infantry to the far side of the map. You will not get decisive wins if your losses stay that high per battle, plus you will be spending all your after battle points on repair with nothing left over for upgrades. Instead of using tanks to recon, send in foot infantry, most battles in a campaign are at least 20 turns long, and many are in the 30+ range, plenty of time for that infantry to stroll forward until they have found all the nasty surprises the ai has left you. Unless you see Matildas, any tanks before 6/42 are dead meat to your tanks and at guns. Don't sweat the ai throwing crusaders at you, even the 75RR will kill them. If you think 2pdrs are pesky just wait until the Brits start putting out 6pdrs at 6/42, or the dreaded 17pdrs in 1/43. Even tiger I's die in droves when faced by 17pdrs. Keep your upgrades planned, don't just upgrade when a new weapon comes along. Your plan should be to maintain a quality edge along with an experiance edge. The Pzkw III j(s) will take out the allied tanks in 42, the IV f2(s) does a better job of it in mid 42, and the VIe is the best tank available until the VIb comes out. Since you started your campaign in jan/42 I am surprised you didn't start with j(s) tanks to get the long 50, it even blows away Grants when the Brits get them, and long before the western allies have anything better than Grants you should have upgraded to tigers. When you start facing American airpower you hopefully will have traded all those trucks and halftracks for SPAA, With a 2200 pt core started in 39, by 44 I was seeing at least 24 enemy planes in the battles with the US. Luckily the Brits don't throw airpower against you, they just have better tank killers earlier, the US doesn't catch up until all their infantry shows up with bazookas. Remember a man lost is only 1 vp, but if you lose 100 men to take a 50 point victory hex you are working backwards, losing a 90 pt tank is like losing most of a company of infantry, spend your foot infantry not vehicles if you have a choice. The toughest scenarios now seem to be where the ai is defending or delaying and has victory point per turn hexes to defend, you are in a tough time bind to take those hexes fast enough to keep the ai from piling up points. The infamous sandstorm battle where the hexes were 15 pts a turn and 21 turns away from the start line is this sort of battle. To me the easiest battles to win are delay or defend battles where setting up clear lines of fire for guns and spreading out enough to minimize casualties due to artillery are your major decisions. After setup I rarely move units when defending or delaying against the ai. thanks, John.

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(in reply to Latka)
Post #: 5
- 3/29/2001 3:41:00 AM   
Latka

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
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Thanks for the feedback, John. That's exactly the kinda thing I was lookin for. Regarding my choice of tanks - I don't know which ones are better! I have only a casual knowledge of WWII vehicles and equipment, so what I do most of the time is look at the armor / max penetration / cost and decide from there. As far as my tactics go, I've gotta stop lining everybody up on the "flags" from the start and racing across the map. I always feel like I'm behind in where I need to be. Maybe I should start using the infantry as you've suggested. Let 'em walk! :) Thanks again, Andy

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Post #: 6
- 3/29/2001 4:11:00 AM   
Coachace


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From: Fountain Valley, California
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Latka, thanks for the play-by-play. It got me through lunch here at work. I'll try all the advise given to your gameplay tonight! Is it just me, or does anyone else go to bed at night with that damn target reticle still in your mind's eye?? -Coachace

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Post #: 7
- 3/29/2001 5:07:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Latka: Thanks for the feedback, John. That's exactly the kinda thing I was lookin for. Regarding my choice of tanks - I don't know which ones are better! I have only a casual knowledge of WWII vehicles and equipment, so what I do most of the time is look at the armor / max penetration / cost and decide from there. As far as my tactics go, I've gotta stop lining everybody up on the "flags" from the start and racing across the map. I always feel like I'm behind in where I need to be. Maybe I should start using the infantry as you've suggested. Let 'em walk! :) Thanks again, Andy
A few other things I failed to mention yesterday were: Possibly the best direct fire weapon vs infantry is the 88AA gun, think of it as an 88mm sniper rifle, it has the accuracy to hit infantry units where other artillery just hits the hex. Instead of spreading out your at guns keep them together, use their concentrated fire to clear an area of enemy armor, then load them up, move them all and set up shop in a new area to clear. You don't want 8-10 tanks fireing back at a lone 88, if all 4 88's were there they would kill all the enemy tanks before they were lost themselves. With that 11 man crew it takes a good bit of firepower to knock out an 88, don't be afraid to put it out on the front line to kill anything that moves. I'll admit that the 88AA in my German campaign never got much over 100 exp each, the ai would make sure that I lost 1 or 2 each battle, generally the best ones at that, but before they went down each battle they might have killed half a dozen tanks and a dozen other vehicles each. When facing an ai player that is throwing massive artillery and air at you, you have to kill off enough of its force fast enough to force a surrender early in the battle. I had several games that lasted 6 turns or less, at least one was only 3 turns before the ai surrendered. Don't be afraid to change your oob if you don't like the weapons that are standard, in my campaign I changed a german infantry company to FJ infantry, and used them to drop on the rear vic hexes in almost all my assault battles. My A0 unit was also changed to FJ infantry, when the fg42 rifle was available, just so that it was more capable of defending itself. Engineers may not have a lot of ammo for their flamethrowers, but they have an unlimited supply of mines. For my early defend and delay battles I didn't even buy mines I let my core engineers lay all I wanted along with up to 3 companies of support point engineers. Since you didn't start in 39, you missed the era where the German infantry is a better tank killer than their tanks, you are starting where the tanks are at parity, and starting in 8/42 when you get tigers you slip into an era of advantage that you never lose unless you try fighting on the eastern front. If you have ever seen the tv show Hogans Heros, you will recall the horror the Germans there held for a possible transfer to the eastern front, they knew what they were facing. Never go to the east! It isn't a coincidance that the highest cost tank is a Soviet one. IS-3's eat Tiger II's. Something I noticed your force lacked was an onboard large caliber infantry killer, an armored vehicle with a 150mm gun that can roll forward and pound entrenched infantry will make your assaults go a lot easier. The sturmtiger is the ultimate expression of this, but earlier in the war the Brummbar, is good. Just keep your infantry killers away from enemy tanks and at guns. In my current Brit campaign I have 2 crusader ICS tanks, that die if anyone shoots ap at them but are my most effective tool for removing infantry due to the extra mg's they mount. German tanks make excellent mobile pillboxes, they almost all have a main gun with he and 2 mgs. Use them to hose infantry once the enemy has no more antitank weaponry, the return fire against the tanks is ineffective, if you use infantry to shoot his infantry, your losses will be higher. The ai has a tendancy to run his tanks right up to enemy units. Don't do the same. Early in the war, infantry can only take out light armor with rifle grenades, or med armor with close assaults. If you stay at least 4 hexes away from enemy infantry they can't touch your armor early on. Later when bazookas show up, the danger range is 6 hexes, and the ai gets higher experiance units so you don't always see the unit until you are within that six hex range. At the end of the war you don't want to attack US infantry with tanks at all. If you have FJ with fg42's or SS with SG44's you have the firepower edge to take on all those garand armed infantry and still win. If you haven't had the points to upgrade your units and are still armed with Kar98's, then I feel sorry for you. Though I never upgraded my engineer company to mp40's. I thought the reduction in range more than offset the added firepower at 3 hexes or less. Other things like assigning a unit to be assistant commander like I did might be an item of discussion. I took a squad and transferred it to be A1, that way if my A0 was ever killed it would take over the A0 duties (hopefully), I never lost my A0 unit so I never had a chance to test if this was a good choice. In 44 and 45 where the German experiance levels start on the downhill slide I would have hated to replace that 100 exp A0 unit with a 60 exp unit had it been killed. thanks, John.

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Post #: 8
- 3/29/2001 6:27:00 AM   
Latka

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
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Wow...thanks again for all the feedback, John. I never even realized that my engineers had mines (duh!). I guess they could have thrown down a serious minefield to stop the British advance. Hmmm - then again, I may start the campaign over, but this time back in '39. I'll have to give your suggestions a workout and let you know how they worked. Thanks again! Andy (New, with fortified sandbags!)

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Post #: 9
- 3/29/2001 6:29:00 AM   
Latka

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else go to bed at night with that damn target reticle still in your mind's eye??
Hahahaha... yes! That and my fiance says she goes to sleep every night with the sound of the German 20mm cannon (boom boom boom boom boom) in her mind. "I swear I turned it down, honey!" :D

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Post #: 10
- 3/29/2001 10:08:00 AM   
Toey

 

Posts: 82
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From: Melbounre
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Latka, I am far from a grognard and I like to play the game for fun not historically. It was refreshing to read your AAR. Well done!

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Post #: 11
- 3/30/2001 5:08:00 AM   
Billy Yank

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 5/18/2000
From: Northern Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by john g: Other things like assigning a unit to be assistant commander like I did might be an item of discussion. I took a squad and transferred it to be A1, that way if my A0 was ever killed it would take over the A0 duties (hopefully), I never lost my A0 unit so I never had a chance to test if this was a good choice. In 44 and 45 where the German experiance levels start on the downhill slide I would have hated to replace that 100 exp A0 unit with a 60 exp unit had it been killed. thanks, John.
I have done this and it works pretty well. What you want to do before you play is use Chlanda's editor to promote your A1 leader to a Major or Lt. Colonel. If you don't, then your battalion will be commanded by 2nd Lieutenant.

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Billy Yank
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
-- Thorin Oakenshield

(in reply to Latka)
Post #: 12
- 3/31/2001 12:07:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Latka: Wow...thanks again for all the feedback, John. I never even realized that my engineers had mines (duh!). I guess they could have thrown down a serious minefield to stop the British advance. Hmmm - then again, I may start the campaign over, but this time back in '39. I'll have to give your suggestions a workout and let you know how they worked. Thanks again! Andy (New, with fortified sandbags!)
Here is how it worked for me, I pulled up the save game of the end of the war status screens. For a campaign 39 - 3/45 Casualties German Opponents men 2381 15074 artillery 4 253 soft vehicle 2 41 apc 12 88 afv 45 455 glider 1 0 aircraft 0 69 5 marginal 39 decisive 47 battles 48325 rebuild points left over As you can see I averaged less than 1 afv loss per battle, the majority of those were pre-tiger losses. After I got tigers I only lost a couple of tanks the rest of the war. The key to keeping armor losses low are never letting your opponent have a side or rear shot and staying out of the infantry danger zone. I don't know how many other people noticed it, but the Pzkw IV especially and German armor in general has Klingon armor (for those who played Star Fleet Battles years ago), great in the front, mediocre on the sides and terrible in the rear. Keep your frontal armor facing the enemy. Another thing you may notice is my lack of aircraft casualties, I used paradrops quite often but never used strike aircraft, they just don't kill the enemy in relation to their cost. Another item like engineer mines you may have overlooked is priority fire targets in the indirect fire screen. Always set priority hexes. .1 delay when firing at the hex, only .3 delay when targeted on the hex and then shifted up to 2 hexes away. Really great when you spot where your opponent is sure to have units during the battle. Another factor to consider is starting core size. The larger your core, the less impact victory hexes have. If your losses are in the 10% range each battle, for a 4300 pt core plus perhaps a 700 pt support force that means you took 500 pts in casualties. To get a 8-1 decisive you need to get 4000 points, which means you have to take out enough of the enemy to make up the differance beyond what the victory hexes give you. If the victory hexes (by taking and holding all of them) are worth 2100 points you would have to kill 1900 points of the enemy or a 4-1 kill ratio. If you start with a 2000 point core + support and again take 10% casualties, the taking of the victory hexes alone with send you over the 8-1 level, you don't even need to kill any units, aside from the fact that the ai has to be broken before it surrenders. Those that play with 10000 pt forces are reducing the effect of victory hexes to a minor addition and making it tough to get decisive wins. To me with the map sizes and victory hex values that I have seen, a 1500-3000 pt force is the range I would target for a starting core size. thanks, John.

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