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Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 3:50:27 AM   
BattleMoose

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 2/17/2014
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I am having a really hard time gauging the effectiveness of sea mines. I have laid minefields (my pbem opponent will no doubt read this thread) and often bombardment forces will come through and appear not to be hindered by them. Sometimes having 200 to 300 mines at island locations.

I only have evidence of one instance when his ships hit some mines. Am I supposed to just not know if he hits mines, that seams really reasonable. And I understand that once a minefield has been hit, then the Japanese will know not to go there again?

I really have no feel for what I can expect from minefields of 50, 400 or 1200 mines (more random numbers)? If I wanted there to be a good chance of a bombardment force hitting a minefield , how many mines should I be using?

Any information regarding the effectiveness of mines or how to better use them would be most welcome.
Post #: 1
RE: Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 4:30:53 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		If you check the combat report, you will see if your opponent hit mines
This is from my PBEM game (I am Allies):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 11 encounters mine field at Batavia (49,98)

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Mine hits 1


I don't know how much damage Mogami took, but I know my opponent has lost 1 destroyer to mines in a different place.

Mines might not sink a ship, but floatation damage is difficult to repair, requiring a shipyard/ ARD and time. Thus, better to avoid them

I am very interested on what the more experienced players have to say about the # of mines. I have had poor results when mines < 100.
Based on very imperfect intelligence, I would aim to have at least 300 on prime targets, with more if inventories allow


(in reply to BattleMoose)
Post #: 2
RE: Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 10:40:47 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Bombardment forces seem to almost always be able to stand outside the minefield and still bombard.

Transits through the hex and forces coming to the shore seem to be more readily hit by mines.

Don't count on minefields as a deterrent to surface bombardments.

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Post #: 3
RE: Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 11:22:03 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Bombardment forces seem to almost always be able to stand outside the minefield and still bombard.

Transits through the hex and forces coming to the shore seem to be more readily hit by mines.

Don't count on minefields as a deterrent to surface bombardments.


+1
Also, I played a test game against the AI with a heavy (600+) minefield at a contested port and FOG OF WAR told me a CA and DD hit 1 mine, However when I turned on the IJN side to have a look, the IJN had 4 ships hit mines with a xAP sinking. The CA was a CL. So, I would say if you are using FOW on, the results you see may be a little off from what really happened....GP

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 4
RE: Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 1:01:40 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Remember, 300 mines are a field in a 40 miles hex ... 300 mines is actually a very tiny area in that 40 miles hex. If there is a port, they will be setup just outside the port entrance. Unless you are steaming into port, you will never encounter the mine field.

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Post #: 5
RE: Sea Mines - 10/21/2014 7:43:25 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think 300 mines in game represent 300 mine in real life. If i remembering right the discussions about mines besides the desire for game play reasons to deny most of mine warfare there was also to take an account how many minefields are necessary to cover a location. One of the points is that in real life there is need for anti submarine and anti ship mine fields while in game there isn't that need.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 6
RE: Sea Mines - 10/22/2014 7:26:21 AM   
guctony


Posts: 669
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline 		I think there is relation between the bombardment range and effectiveness of mines. landing ships must go to specific areas for landing where mines becomes more effective. But when I set range of bombardment to 9 or 12 I never hit mines with bombardment TF. But landing TF do get hit by mines.

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(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 7
RE: Sea Mines - 10/22/2014 12:59:08 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline 		Sort of off topic. An interesting article about an Atlantic ASW fight. The last paragraph mentions damaged ships wandering into a mine field off of Cape Hatteras. A tugboat hit a mine and sank.

http://monitor.noaa.gov/science/u-576.html

(in reply to guctony)
Post #: 8
RE: Sea Mines - 10/23/2014 9:24:16 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

If you check the combat report, you will see if your opponent hit mines
This is from my PBEM game (I am Allies):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 11 encounters mine field at Batavia (49,98)

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami, Mine hits 1


I don't know how much damage Mogami took, but I know my opponent has lost 1 destroyer to mines in a different place.

Mines might not sink a ship, but floatation damage is difficult to repair, requiring a shipyard/ ARD and time. Thus, better to avoid them

I am very interested on what the more experienced players have to say about the # of mines. I have had poor results when mines < 100.
Based on very imperfect intelligence, I would aim to have at least 300 on prime targets, with more if inventories allow




Mogami took 5 sys and 15 float (7 major). I think that was on the light side.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 9
RE: Sea Mines - 10/28/2014 12:15:05 AM   
leehunt27@bloomberg.net


Posts: 533
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline 		To really blunt an enemy TF, I think you need 200 mines or so. The only times my opponent has been like "oh man, that hurt" was when a bombardment TF stumbled into a 225+ minefield (at Truk in this case). Otherwise my mines of like 20-70 number in various bases has not registered much notice

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Post #: 10
RE: Sea Mines - 10/30/2014 12:31:28 AM   
derhexer


Posts: 251
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		I've been playing the Allies and have had at least 10 of my submarines damaged by Japanese mines in ports. 1 sank trying to get back to base with heavy damage. I also know that when the Japanese invaded Noumea at least 1 AP was sunk by one of my mines.

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(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)
Post #: 11
RE: Sea Mines - 10/30/2014 9:13:37 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The other thing to consider in defending a base is that other elements like subs, PTs, and surface combat TFs of any kind can make ships react in unexpected ways and run into minefields.

As to the OP, if you know he's coming or what base he's heading back to for replenishment, you can also lay mines in shallow or base hexes on his path or at the origination base for bombardment runs. In the Solomons for instance it's tough to avoid moving through tight quarters where mines could be placed. Same for some areas of the DEI. In open sea deep hexes the mines will degenerate very quickly but in shallow hexes they won't, so you'll also have to be careful not to hit your own minefields later.

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/31/2014 10:40:46 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Sea Mines - 10/30/2014 7:34:44 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		I find mines quite effective especially versus subs. I would trade my US torps for more mines any day!!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 13
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