Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

A little hard to say that they didn't suffer a lot of casualties in the attack (lots of vehicles listed in the combat report for casualties), but the "isolated with no supply" and then perfect supply in the coming turn is pretty telling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Where is michaelm anyway?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

There is another related problem:

Every time that penalty check (isolated with no supply) kicks in, the AA units are set back (AUTOMATICALLY) to "do not take replacements", and I am pretty sure they were all set to "accept replacements".

This will lead into a "loop" where the AA units will get destroyed by this "combo" of supply expenditure against bombers + penalty check + "forced" do not accept replacements.

Thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Hi Micheal,

I believe I've found, along with Obvert, a bug (or a not-wanted-behaviour) concerning AA units.

Already opened a thread in the main forum where we've discussed the matter with Alfred and others. (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3717174)

I will try to describe the situation we've tested.

the "situation" arises when, in the same hex, are present two opposing stacks of LCUs and there are AA units present in both the stacks.
Both stacks have plenty of supplies and all the close-by supply sources are open.
So, there is NO supply problem.
if you try to ground-bomb the enemy's stack in the contested hex, the AA LCUs will obviously fire at the incoming enemy's bombers.
No matter if the bombers have successfully hit the troops and cause disabled/destroyed devices (visible in the combat report), at the end of the turn, in the op report, you're gonna see the "isolated with no supply" message concerning the AA units present in the stack that has been attacked by the bombers.
Note that, when you open the turn after the resolution, the units (AA LCUs included) are all in a perfect supply status.
The very same AA LCUs have suffered some disabled/destroyed devices during the turn-resolution, devices that do not seem to be related with the bombers' activity (so I assume are due to the penalty check related with the "isolated with no supply" of the op report).

So the problem seems to be that units that fire against the bombers consume ALL their embedded supplies and then are checked by the AI for the "isolated with no supplies" penalty BEFORE the "supply movement phase", thus resulting with NO supplies and so suffering the penalty you've introduced in one of the betas (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3360927&mpage=1&key=isolated%2Csupply�)

I think this is not WAD, because it can easily lead to an exploitation of these very common situations (stacks facing each other with AA units), where the AA units can easily be destroyed (particularly true for the very small Japanese AA companies that only have very few devices)

My modest opinion is that that "penalty check" should be made AFTER the supply/movement phase or, alternatively, the AA LCUs should use less supplies while firing at the enemy's bombers.


This has been tested by me and Obvert on both sides (japan and allies) and always happen

I believe this would worth a look

Still thanks for all your effort and support!

GJ

Here's a save (the "thing" is happening in hex 53:30, near Patna, India)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

I've got a similar problem,
during an enemy Deliberate Attack in an hex owned by my troops appeared this message:

"8th Tank Regiment isolated with no supply!"

and after the end of combat the unit resulted completely trashed;
there was no problem of supplies in hex and in theater and all units had good supplies both at the start and at the end of turn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Where is michaelm anyway?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

I've got a similar problem,
during an enemy Deliberate Attack in an hex owned by my troops appeared this message:

"8th Tank Regiment isolated with no supply!"

and after the end of combat the unit resulted completely trashed;
there was no problem of supplies in hex and in theater and all units had good supplies both at the start and at the end of turn

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I have loaded and played thru this turn and only 'isolated' messages I see are a few for the Allied player. Which look real as the units have no supply at the end of the turn - they start out with really low supply.
26th Group Army isolated with no supply lost 2 device(s)!
200th Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 3 device(s)!
96th Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
22nd New Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
2nd Reserve Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
I play around some more to see if I can reproduce anything.
If a hex is isolated, I would expect all units in hex to be isolated as it does not seem to use the type of unit in determining supply path.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Hi Micheal,

I believe I've found, along with Obvert, a bug (or a not-wanted-behaviour) concerning AA units.

Already opened a thread in the main forum where we've discussed the matter with Alfred and others. (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3717174)

I will try to describe the situation we've tested.

the "situation" arises when, in the same hex, are present two opposing stacks of LCUs and there are AA units present in both the stacks.
Both stacks have plenty of supplies and all the close-by supply sources are open.
So, there is NO supply problem.
if you try to ground-bomb the enemy's stack in the contested hex, the AA LCUs will obviously fire at the incoming enemy's bombers.
No matter if the bombers have successfully hit the troops and cause disabled/destroyed devices (visible in the combat report), at the end of the turn, in the op report, you're gonna see the "isolated with no supply" message concerning the AA units present in the stack that has been attacked by the bombers.
Note that, when you open the turn after the resolution, the units (AA LCUs included) are all in a perfect supply status.
The very same AA LCUs have suffered some disabled/destroyed devices during the turn-resolution, devices that do not seem to be related with the bombers' activity (so I assume are due to the penalty check related with the "isolated with no supply" of the op report).

So the problem seems to be that units that fire against the bombers consume ALL their embedded supplies and then are checked by the AI for the "isolated with no supplies" penalty BEFORE the "supply movement phase", thus resulting with NO supplies and so suffering the penalty you've introduced in one of the betas (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3360927&mpage=1&key=isolated%2Csupply�)

I think this is not WAD, because it can easily lead to an exploitation of these very common situations (stacks facing each other with AA units), where the AA units can easily be destroyed (particularly true for the very small Japanese AA companies that only have very few devices)

My modest opinion is that that "penalty check" should be made AFTER the supply/movement phase or, alternatively, the AA LCUs should use less supplies while firing at the enemy's bombers.


This has been tested by me and Obvert on both sides (japan and allies) and always happen

I believe this would worth a look

Still thanks for all your effort and support!

GJ

Here's a save (the "thing" is happening in hex 53:30, near Patna, India)

I have loaded and played thru this turn and only 'isolated' messages I see are a few for the Allied player. Which look real as the units have no supply at the end of the turn - they start out with really low supply.
26th Group Army isolated with no supply lost 2 device(s)!
200th Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 3 device(s)!
96th Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
22nd New Chinese Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
2nd Reserve Division isolated with no supply lost 4 device(s)!
I play around some more to see if I can reproduce anything.
If a hex is isolated, I would expect all units in hex to be isolated as it does not seem to use the type of unit in determining supply path.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I have been busy at work, and have been involved in a few other projects that have stolen my time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

If you could using the standard pwhex file.
Actually, can you attach the pwhex files you use as that is the only other thing I can think of that is different?

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Just FYI, unless somebody from the AE team was hired by 2X3 without my awareness, nobody from the AE team has done any work on any other Gary Grigsby game.

Bill