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2 important questions - 10/23/2014 10:10:51 AM

psofos
Matrix Recruit

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
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1) Whats going on with USSR? The instant i attack it with Germany USSR WE skyrockets to 211%!!!! Germany is in war for almost 2 years and with WE in the 130ish and having conquered most of Europe (including Switzerland) i get a bit over 400 and then comes maintenance.... thank god for loans from Italy and Sweden and a couple of F12 "fixes". USSR has so massive production that 3/4 of the huge front is cover with 3-4 lines deep infantry corps, not to mention tens of armor strolling around.... Cant even move lol....
2) Which brings me to the second and most important question. IF I could surround the enemy and cut the supply maybe.... BUT NO! All the enemy units EVERYWHERE, not matter the supply level, as long as they get 1 point of supply function at 100%!!! ABSOLUTELY NO REDUCTION IN EFFECTIVE STRENGTH OR ACTION POINTS DUE TO LOW SUPPLY!!!! On the other hand, my units get normal supply penalties, aka working as intended.

I tried it both with 1.04 and 1.05 patch, same things going on. It makes the game kinda unplayable. Any help would be appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 2:35:42 PM

gwgardner
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Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
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Which scenario? And how many turns into the scenario?

Playing against the AI? What difficulty level?

I ask those questions because I haven't seen what you're seeing. I'll try to reproduce and figure out what's going on if you give the info.

(in reply to psofos)

Post #: 2

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 2:55:52 PM

psofos
Matrix Recruit

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
Status: offline

I am playing the German Campaign scenario. Atm i am on turn 107, started the invasion on USSR on turn 86, don't really recall if the supply problem happened in the western front as well, that is earlier in the game, UK units definitely didn't have reduced efficiency when i noticed them in 1941 with only cut off city supply. Human control for Axis and assorted minors (Slovakia, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Finland, Sweden, Persia) vs AI on normal difficulty mode. USSR had some strange production spikes from early on in the game but 2 or 3 turns after the invasion the amount of points was unbelievable. Not to mention the 120 divisions and 140 corps of infantry, 20 divisions and 15 corps of armor, various other units and 8 battleships in production queue (ROFL!!!). BTW I have tried uninstall and full clean install of the game but didn't make a difference.

< Message edited by psofos -- 10/23/2014 3:58:31 PM >

(in reply to gwgardner)

Post #: 3

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 3:27:07 PM

shermanwar
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 66
Joined: 2/23/2012
Status: offline

I have seen the insane amount of troop strength given to USSR as you have mentioned. The only way I found to make it playable was to take a turn or two and put USSR to human, take control and go in and delete units and F12 FIx them to some number in the negatives. When you see the rows of sharks teeth units they have lined up on the far right of the map screen its just silly.....but ultimately they have given up on this game and it is orphan now. Instead we get 5 games a month about space unicorns with ray guns fighting for planet Jackmeoff or something....Frustrating.

(in reply to psofos)

Post #: 4

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 5:10:49 PM

gwgardner
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Wow, this is disappointing. I have to admit to not having played against the AI in a campaign game that many turns. All of my time against the AI I've played the Barbarossa scenario, in which the USSR startup OOB is historical.

So the problem is occuring in the years 1939-41, allowing the Russkies to buildup.

I wonder if there was an event during those previous turns that triggered a Russian buildup. For instance, did you renege on the Ribbentrop pact? Did you invade Estonia? Intervene in the Winter War in Finland? If you have the time, you might want to go through the events reports for the USSR.

Certainly Shermanwar's method of using F12 to take over just prior to your invasion of the USSR, to set their forces to historical levels is a good workaround to solve this problem. You can startup a Barbarossa Campaign scenario to see what the historical OOB is.

It is also very easy to go into the data files and change practically any factor for the USSR, for instance their war readiness level (whatever that factor is called), their current research level, and so forth.

I'll start a GC against the AI myself and see what happens. If you ever get to the point where you want to try PBEM, contact me. If you go into the Matrix forum options and set it to look back a few years, you can see some of my AARs. Love this game.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 10/23/2014 6:16:10 PM >

(in reply to shermanwar)

Post #: 5

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 5:33:29 PM

psofos
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Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
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I had cut down the massed USSR points a few times already in 1940, thinking it would be enough from my previous attempts.. Alas I was mistaken. I honored the Rib-Mol pact, didn't invaded anything I shouldn't have, tried both options with Finland (Italy supporting and not supporting). I remember that in Time of Wrath there was a USSR event that for the human player it was +a lot unrest and + some WE OR + a few unrest, don't remember the name and i remember that it glitched for the AI and got the WE without the unrest. Maybe its the same problem?
I find the supply glitch more important though, have you guys ever experienced something like that? Even with USSR zergs, if the low supply penalties work as intended, I may have some chance through massive encirclements.

(in reply to gwgardner)

Post #: 6

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 7:55:28 PM

gwgardner
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Concerning your question 2, I could not reproduce your problem.

Here is a 5-5 Russian tank unit that I cut off from supply. Turn 1 after being cut off it had full supply, turn 2 it was reduced to a 3-3 due to supply/efficiency being reduced, turn 3 it was reduced to a 2-2, and turn 4 after being without supply it was reduced to a 0-0.

IF the unit has a supply line to a city which is itself cut off from supply, it still draws from the city supply. If that city supply level is above 10 I believe the unit will remain at a high level. Can't remember the exact city level for full supply.

So it's vital when creating encirclements not to leave the units with a city supply source.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to psofos)

Post #: 7

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 8:25:47 PM

psofos
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Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
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for some reason i cant upload a screenshot, when i click , select the file and press ok it says: required fields are missing....wth
Anyway, imagine that there is a UUSR controlled city in the hex where Totenkopf is with inherent supply of 6, cut off from the MSS network. Therefore the russian tank would have some supply BUT since it would be under 20 it would have a penalty where it says SUPPLY LEVEL on the info area, a penalty of 70% and lowered efficiency. Thats my problem, AI units even though on low (BUT NOT TOTALLY OUT OF) supply dont have any penalty whatsoever.
(The numbers I have used are from a german unit in my game, cant upload the screenshot as I mentioned)

< Message edited by psofos -- 10/23/2014 9:32:50 PM >

(in reply to gwgardner)

Post #: 8

RE: 2 important questions - 10/23/2014 11:43:47 PM

gwgardner
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I think it's a reporting bug. Only on the fourth turn did the line 'supply level' show -100%. for the turns before that, even though the unit was lowered in strength, the 'supply level' showed -0%.

It's the red highlighted line that shows the end result of all penalties. In your case, what does the red line show?

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 10/24/2014 12:44:23 AM >

(in reply to psofos)

Post #: 9

RE: 2 important questions - 10/24/2014 10:47:20 AM

Rasputitsa
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I am playing against the AI and have used some mods/fixes to make the game more realistic and challenging. The performance of the Soviet AI can simply be adjusted in the initial game settings. In the game described in the Forum AAR section, the Soviet AI was initially slow to build up, so I set the Soviet 'Difficulty Level' to Easy, now I have the Soviets at what I think is an historical level, I have reset the USSR difficulty back to Normal.

The game has great potential, but does need to be adjusted to get the best out of it and as you see F12 can be used as an in-game tool to fix balance problems.

Further adjustments can be made in the game files with some changes to the values in the Scenario 'consts.ini' files.

I am putting together a series of notes on making adjustments to game files and this is the one applicable to encirclements. When time allows I hope to put a guidance package onto the forum.

----------
Encirclement Survival

The way the game handles supply can cause some problems, as supply is distributed through cities (even when cut off from the MSS), any city even captured enemy cities, will provide supply, albeit at a reduced level. The AI is given advantages in supply and if enemy units have access to a city they can draw sufficient supply and are able to rebuild losses each turn, which makes them very difficult to destroy.

The objective in encirclements is to cut enemy units off from any city supply and with the existing game settings they will run out of supply in 3 turns, unless they can receive 'alternative supply' by air, or sea.

Especially during the early part of the war, most national forces were unprepared for the violence and speed of Blitzkrieg and collapsed quickly after encirclement. Nations with little military infrastructure (Denmark), or low morale (France), where organisation quickly broke down and communications by dispatch and telephone were quickly disrupted, could not hold out and this can be replicated by reducing the turns that a unit can survive without supply.

It is suggested that the main scenario 'consts .ini' file is adjusted to place completely encircled units out off supply after 1 turn, for early war scenarios. This can be changed for later war scenarios, or as a running game proceeds into the later war period, by a higher setting.

Units 'out of supply' after 1 turn becomes the default setting in that scenario, but some nations were more resilient, due to better command and control and more efficient use of dwindling supplies. This can be replicated by giving selected nations a higher setting in the relevant National 'consts.ini' file (note that, in a running game the active National 'consts.ini' files are held in the - Documents/My Games/Time of Fury/saves/ “game save” folder -, any changes to National 'consts.ini' file in the main game/data/scenario folder will only apply to a new game).

Application :

For new game, or to apply to all nations - Game Folder/data/scenario/"Scenario name"/consts.ini
For running game to change specific nations - Documents/My Games/Time of Fury/saves/ "game save name"/ e.g. consts_Germany

Text :

[TurnsWithoustSupplyModifier]
NoSupply = (3) – reset value to 1 in the scenario 'consts ini' file

Some nations can be given higher survival rates and the following full text can be added to the chosen National 'consts ini' files. For example :

File – 'consts_Germany' add full text :

[TurnsWithoustSupplyModifier]
NoSupply = 3 (set for number of required turns before supply runs out)

Notes: Supply can also be provided by air, or sea, these features can be adjusted in the text :

SupplyFromShips]
Maximum = 20 ............................10 (reduced setting) - max supply level available
Range = 3 .....................................1 ( **** ) - how far inland supply can reach

[SupplyFromBombers]
MaxValue = 20 ..................................5 (reduced setting) - max supply level available
ChanceOfSupplyForBomberStrengthPoint = 10
SupplyPerBomberStrengthPoint = 1................0.5 (reduced setting) - how much supply provided

Note : whatever is in the Scenario 'consts.ini' file will apply, unless overidden by national 'consts.ini' data in the same Scenario folder for new game, or in the Game Save folder for a running game.
----------

I have only added supply from air and sea as an example, it is a subject of its own, with different nations having different capabilities, at different stages of the war and there will be a separate note on this subject,

This goes with a package of items, to reproduce a situation closer to the historical events, in the case of the Eastern Front, if the encirclements are collapsing more quickly, then the larger numbers of replacement Soviet units need to be available, to maintain the historical balance. Increasing the capability for deeper entrenchments restores some more of the defence balance, if the Blitzkrieg slows down and defending units get time to dig.

I am by no means an expert on this game, but I have learnt enough to modify the game for my own enjoyment and if any of this helps others, then I am happy to help. Some simple changes to data values can change most features in this game, using Windows Notepad, or Excel, but you will need to give yourself administration privileges in file properties, to edit and save changes, backup the game files before altering, in case of problems. I have several different installations of the game to work on, before moving modified files into the playing copy. The notes are incomplete and may need further explanation, unless people are familiar with the layout of the files.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 10/24/2014 12:22:42 PM >

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(in reply to gwgardner)

Post #: 10

RE: 2 important questions - 10/24/2014 12:20:40 PM

psofos
Matrix Recruit

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
Status: offline

It is extremely annoying that I can't upload pictures or cant even give u links from imageshack of something....
Anyway, on my unit it says: Strength 12.3(91%) - (11.4) with overall effectiveness of 93% due to -70% supply level (supply 6) BUT on the AI units it says: Strength 3.0 (100%) - (3.7) with overall effectiveness of 123% with 0% supply level penalty even though they have 9 supply.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)

Post #: 11

RE: 2 important questions - 10/24/2014 12:34:26 PM

psofos
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Posts: 9
Joined: 10/23/2014
Status: offline

Rasputitsa, since you seem to understand moding/coding, I noticed a marked difference between the consts_Germany and all other countries respective file in the 1939 Grand Campaign Germany file, mainly see how many info and especially the provisions about low supply penalty that exists in the first as opposed to the other ( i picked the USSR one):

germany
[MovementPointsForLandUnitOnWarfareLevels]
UnitType4 = 7;8;8;9;9;9
UnitType5 = 6;7;7;8;8;8

[MaxStrengthOfLandUnitsOnLevels]
UnitType4 = 2.5;3.5;4.5;5.5;6.5
UnitType5 = 7.5;10.5;13.5;16.5;19.5

[MaximalDamageDealtByNavalUnits]
UnitType43 = 3

[EffectivityBonusForEachWarfareDoctrineLevel]
EffectivityBonusPercentage = 25

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt25]
EffectivityPenalty = 2
ActionPointsPenalty = 25
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -1
AirStrikeModifier = 90
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 70
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 7

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt20]
EffectivityPenalty = 3
ActionPointsPenalty = 34
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -2
AirStrikeModifier = 80
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 45
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 4

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt15]
EffectivityPenalty = 4
ActionPointsPenalty = 50
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -3
AirStrikeModifier = 70
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 30
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 3

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt10]
EffectivityPenalty = 5
ActionPointsPenalty = 75
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -4
AirStrikeModifier = 50
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 20
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 2

[DetectingAbilityOfNavalUnits]
UnitType43 = 750

[ChanceOfSurpriseAttack]
UnitType43 = 150

[CostOfNavalUnit]
UnitType40 = 260
UnitType41 = 205
UnitType42 = 90
UnitType43 = 21

[CostOfRepairingOneStrengthPointInNavalUnit]
UnitType40 = 24
UnitType41 = 21
UnitType42 = 17
UnitType43 = 8

[CostOfOperationalMovementPoints]
STP = 25

[CostOfAdditionalOperationalPoint]
STP = 1
AIP = 5

[UnitsBuildTime]
UnitType43 = 18

[SeaTransportCost]
UnitType1 = 30
UnitType3 = 60
UnitType5 = 90

[Technology]
SubsCostOfInvestment = 120

[AmphibiousInvasion]
StrengthLostPercentageForDiceRolls = 5;10;20;30;50;66

[ConvoyTransportCost]
SupplyUnitType0 = 1
SupplyUnitType1 = 3
SupplyUnitType2 = 2
SupplyUnitType3 = 6
SupplyUnitType4 = 4.5
SupplyUnitType5 = 13.5
SupplyUnitType6 = 2
SupplyUnitType20 = 3.5
SupplyUnitType21 = 7
SupplyUnitType22 = 10

[UnitComposition]
UnitType0_Level1 = 17901;0;149;0;0
UnitType0_Level2 = 17734;0;161;6;0
UnitType0_Level3 = 17734;0;163;6;0
UnitType0_Level4 = 12772;0;132;12;0
UnitType0_Level5 = 10864;0;113;12;0
UnitType1_Level1 = 62654;0;522;0;0
UnitType1_Level2 = 62069;0;564;21;0
UnitType1_Level3 = 62069;0;571;21;0
UnitType1_Level4 = 44702;0;462;42;0
UnitType1_Level5 = 38024;0;396;42;0
UnitType2_Level1 = 17541;0;148;45;0
UnitType2_Level2 = 16445;0;156;60;0
UnitType2_Level3 = 15489;0;138;78;0
UnitType2_Level4 = 14587;80;98;140;0
UnitType2_Level5 = 14890;68;106;145;0
UnitType3_Level1 = 61394;0;518;158;0
UnitType3_Level2 = 57558;0;546;210;0
UnitType3_Level3 = 54212;0;483;273;0
UnitType3_Level4 = 51055;200;343;490;0
UnitType3_Level5 = 52115;170;371;508;0
UnitType4_Level1 = 10772;86;102;277;0
UnitType4_Level2 = 11792;324;96;431;0
UnitType4_Level3 = 15200;265;84;381;0
UnitType4_Level4 = 14210;170;86;420;0
UnitType4_Level5 = 12000;140;84;412;0
UnitType5_Level1 = 37702;215;357;970;0
UnitType5_Level2 = 41272;810;336;1509;0
UnitType5_Level3 = 53200;663;294;1334;0
UnitType5_Level4 = 49735;425;301;1470;0
UnitType5_Level5 = 42000;350;294;1442;0
UnitType6_Level1 = 7500;0;28;0;0
UnitType6_Level2 = 8040;0;32;0;0
UnitType6_Level3 = 8125;0;32;0;0
UnitType6_Level4 = 9123;0;48;12;0
UnitType6_Level5 = 9870;0;48;24;0

[UpkeepCost]
UpkeepPerOneStrengthPoint = 0.06
MaximumSupportedSizeOfArmy = 32000;45000;64000;90000;180000
UpkeepCostModifierForArmy = 6
UpkeepValueUnitType0 = 1
UpkeepValueUnitType1 = 3
UpkeepValueUnitType2 = 2
UpkeepValueUnitType3 = 6
UpkeepValueUnitType4 = 3
UpkeepValueUnitType5 = 9
UpkeepValueUnitType6 = 1

[SeaZoneStrike]
ChanceForDoubleLosses = 11
ChanceForDestroying = 5

USSR
[Commander]
EffectivenessBonusForSkill = 2
InfluenceRange = 2
MaximumEffectivityForIndirect = 30

[CostOfNewStrengthPointForLandUnit]
UnitType0 = 4
UnitType1 = 3
UnitType2 = 24
UnitType3 = 20
UnitType4 = 35
UnitType5 = 29

[CostOfRepairingOneStrengthPointInLandUnit]
UnitType0 = 3
UnitType1 = 3

[EffectivityBonusForEachWarfareDoctrineLevel]
EffectivityBonusPercentage = 10

[MovementPointsForLandUnitOnWarfareLevels]
UnitType2 = 3;4;5;6;7;8
UnitType3 = 2;3;4;5;6;7
UnitType4 = 5;6;6;7;7;7
UnitType5 = 4;5;5;6;6;6

[UnitComposition]
UnitType0_Level1 = 13000;57;96;12;0
UnitType0_Level2 = 18968;16;114;12;0
UnitType0_Level3 = 14483;16;144;13;0
UnitType0_Level4 = 12578;0;130;16;0
UnitType0_Level5 = 11897;0;146;8;0
UnitType1_Level1 = 45500;200;336;42;0
UnitType1_Level2 = 66388;56;399;42;0
UnitType1_Level3 = 50691;56;516;46;0
UnitType1_Level4 = 44023;0;455;56;0
UnitType1_Level5 = 41640;0;511;28;0
UnitType2_Level1 = 13000;57;96;12;0
UnitType2_Level2 = 17540;120;114;36;0
UnitType2_Level3 = 14483;48;144;54;0
UnitType2_Level4 = 12578;12;130;49;0
UnitType2_Level5 = 11897;12;146;56;0
UnitType3_Level1 = 45500;143;336;42;0
UnitType3_Level2 = 61930;300;399;126;0
UnitType3_Level3 = 50691;120;504;189;0
UnitType3_Level4 = 44023;30;455;172;0
UnitType3_Level5 = 41640;30;511;196;0
UnitType4_Level1 = 7313;160;30;32;0
UnitType4_Level2 = 6708;399;30;34;0
UnitType4_Level3 = 10628;440;54;48;0
UnitType4_Level4 = 7120;96;64;48;0
UnitType4_Level5 = 8405;98;68;52;0
UnitType5_Level1 = 25596;400;105;128;0
UnitType5_Level2 = 23478;998;105;136;0
UnitType5_Level3 = 37200;1108;166;229;0
UnitType5_Level4 = 16438;246;180;205;0
UnitType5_Level5 = 21540;280;197;210;0
UnitType6_Level1 = 2491;0;20;12;0
UnitType6_Level2 = 2588;0;20;12;0
UnitType6_Level3 = 2588;0;20;12;0

[UpkeepCost]
MaximumSupportedSizeOfArmy = 70000;105000;140000;175000;350000
UpkeepCostModifierForArmy = 1
UpkeepValueUnitType0 = 1
UpkeepValueUnitType1 = 3
UpkeepValueUnitType2 = 2
UpkeepValueUnitType3 = 6
UpkeepValueUnitType4 = 3
UpkeepValueUnitType5 = 9
UpkeepValueUnitType6 = 1

There is a main "consts" file that has tonz of info (terrain, movement etc) and among them the following regarding supply:

[SupplyLevels]
MaximumSupply = 30
NoSupplyEffectivityModifierPercentage = 15
LandUnitMaxSupplyAtEnemyTerritory = 10
AirUnitMaxSupplyAtEnemyTerritory = 10 #maximum value is equal to max plane strength divided by the given value

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt50]
EffectivityPenalty = 0
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 100
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 10

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt45]
EffectivityPenalty = 0
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 100
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 10

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt40]
EffectivityPenalty = 0
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 100
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 10

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt35]
EffectivityPenalty = 0
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 100
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 10

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt30]
EffectivityPenalty = 0
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 100
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 10

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt25]
EffectivityPenalty = 1
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 75
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 8

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt20]
EffectivityPenalty = 2
ActionPointsPenalty = 25
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -1
AirStrikeModifier = 90
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 50
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 5

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt15]
EffectivityPenalty = 3
ActionPointsPenalty = 34
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -2
AirStrikeModifier = 80
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 35
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 4

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt10]
EffectivityPenalty = 4
ActionPointsPenalty = 50
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -3
AirStrikeModifier = 70
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 30
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 3

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt5]
EffectivityPenalty = 5
ActionPointsPenalty = 75
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -4
AirStrikeModifier = 50
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 20
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 2

[TurnsWithoustSupplyModifier]
NoSupply = 3

[SupplyFromShips]
Maximum = 20
Range = 3

[SupplyFromShipsValue]
FriendlyUnitType40 = 1
FriendlyUnitType41 = 1
FriendlyUnitType42 = 2
FriendlyUnitType43 = 0
FriendlyUnitType44 = 0
FriendlyUnitType45 = 0
EnemyUnitType40 = 1
EnemyUnitType41 = 1
EnemyUnitType42 = 1
EnemyUnitType43 = 1
EnemyUnitType44 = 0
EnemyUnitType45 = 0

[MaximumSupply]
AfterNavalInvasionForAICountries = 1

< Message edited by psofos -- 10/24/2014 1:37:43 PM >

(in reply to psofos)

Post #: 12

RE: 2 important questions - 10/24/2014 2:59:06 PM

Rasputitsa
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

The consts.ini file in the main scenario folder contains the settings for all units and should be considered as the default settings. Where a country is being given a different setting for any items, these are listed in the national consts.ini file for that country, this will over-ride the default scenario costs.ini values for that country only. Countries that have little info in their national consts.ini file is because they mostly use the default set and don't have many special settings.

Remember that if you want to make changes to a national consts.ini file, to affect that country only, then for a new game, changes can be made to the national consts.ini file in the main game data/scenario folder, but if you have a game in progress the copy of the national consts.ini file in the documents/My Games/Time of Fury/"game save name" must be used.

You can see from the consts.ini file how much of the game can be altered, here's another example :

----------
Rail Repair

Rail can be damaged when an enemy unit passes through a rail hex, the existing game settings permit rail hexes to repair too quickly, especially when compared to the historical record on the Eastern Front.

The total time and chance for repair odds can be changed in the scenario consts.ini file, into more realistic settings.

Application :

Game Folder/data/”scenario name”/consts.ini

Text :

Existing text -

[Railroads]
MaxRepairTimeAfterOwnerChange = 3 – rail will repair anyway after 3 turns
RepairChanceForWeather = 90;35;50 - % chance for repair during -Good;Rain;Snow- conditions

These values can be adjusted for example -

[Railroads]
MaxRepairTimeAfterOwnerChange = 5
RepairChanceForWeather = 20;10;15

Effect : The chance for repair each turn is less likely and reduced to a more realistic time scale, the repair will take place after 5 turns, if the odds check hasn't happened sooner. The overall effect is to delay rail repair.
----------

I don't pretend to understand what all the values in these files mean, or how they all work, but there is enough to make adjustments and changes to get a more historical and challenging game from the AI.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 10/24/2014 4:07:35 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: 2 important questions - 10/25/2014 2:46:19 AM

baloo7777
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I always enjoy reading the questions, comments, and solutions here in this forum. It's just that I rapidly lose interest in playing a game that I have to make so much adjustment to. I tried to get up and going recently, but in the end I just decided to play a different game. I feel let down by this game these several years later.

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/25/2014 7:09:09 AM

Rasputitsa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

I always enjoy reading the questions, comments, and solutions here in this forum. It's just that I rapidly lose interest in playing a game that I have to make so much adjustment to. I tried to get up and going recently, but in the end I just decided to play a different game. I feel let down by this game these several years later.

I understand how you feel, it looks daunting when you see it all written down, but I am covering all the bases for people who are new to this, most of it is a one-time adjustment.

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/26/2014 6:44:24 PM

psofos
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Thnx for all the input guys but still I didn't get an answer or solution the the supply paradox that I mentioned

supply 6

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< Message edited by psofos -- 10/26/2014 7:52:22 PM >

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/26/2014 6:51:06 PM

psofos
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supply 9

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< Message edited by psofos -- 10/26/2014 7:55:18 PM >

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/29/2014 9:07:52 AM

Rasputitsa
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quote:

2) Which brings me to the second and most important question. IF I could surround the enemy and cut the supply maybe.... BUT NO! All the enemy units EVERYWHERE, not matter the supply level, as long as they get 1 point of supply function at 100%!!! ABSOLUTELY NO REDUCTION IN EFFECTIVE STRENGTH OR ACTION POINTS DUE TO LOW SUPPLY!!!! On the other hand, my units get normal supply penalties, aka working as intended.

Thnx for all the input guys but still I didn't get an answer or solution the the supply paradox that I mentioned.

The supply paradox you initially mentioned is that the AI is given advantages and doesn't have all the supply and re-build restrictions, which apply to the human player. The answers are in the earlier posts, you have to cut off AI units from all supply, capture the cities and note that units may still receive supply from the sea, if within 3 hexes of the coast, or supply by air, if enemy bomber units are in range (alternative supply).

You can moderate these effects if you want to modify the game scenario data files, as described in an earlier post, so that isolated units collapse more quickly that the 3 turns without supply, which is the default setting.

Your screen shots don't give much information, are these AI, or human controlled units. Supply distributes beyond cities at the movement cost for motorised units.

Manual Page 79 : Supply from cities to units is delivered with a cost. Supply level is reduced using movement
cost of motorized unit at given hex. So, if unit is three hexes (one plain and two forests) from
city connected by rails to the MSS, then the unit is getting supply equal to 25 (30-1-2-2=25).

Can't remember, right now, but these movement costs may be affected by weather effects (select F3 to see weather).

Main thing is that supply can vary for several reasons, but mainly the AI gets unrealistically greater help, which makes its units difficult to kill.

If you are fighting on enemy territory, you are restricted to re-build units at 10% each turn (units have to be returned to home territory to re-build to 100% in one turn). The enemy is already on his home territory and can re-build to 100% each turn, if they have any supply. They can out-build you every turn, especially if your units are getting weak. This AI advantage maybe too strong, but it makes you more careful with your planning.

Strategy helps, get the cities, don't let your units lose too much strength and Mods can restore a more historical balance to all of these features.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 10/29/2014 5:37:35 PM >

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/29/2014 2:05:59 PM

gwgardner
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Rasputitsa has answered most fully.

A couple of comments on your screenshots: in the first, there are positive factors adding to the units strength, as well as the negative for supply.
the unit starts with 12.3 strength. 12.3 x .81 for doctrine, x .71 for supply, x 1.2 for experience, x 1.35 for leader = 11.29 then there must be other factors raising that to 11.4 total strength.

In the second, the unit has been out of supply for only one turn - in my post above in this thread I showed that the negative effect for being out of supply does not occur until at least 2 turns out of supply.

I believe everything is working as designed.

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/29/2014 2:55:38 PM

psofos
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Every unit needs supplies to perform its basic action, which is moving and fighting. Shortages
in supply cause units to be weaker and movement range reduction
When maximum supply level is equal to 30, a unit is operating with full strength and all Action
Points. When this is reduced to 0, unit is almost defenseless and useless and also unable to
move.
Usually your units will operate with a supply range between 10 and 25, where 20 is not so bad,
but below that it’s good to find new sources.
Every country controls at least one MSS (usually capital), which is producing 30 supply. It
delivers supply to other cities and neighbor units
Every city is producing ‘Own Supply’ which can be equal to a value between 1 and 30. Supply
from cities is delivered to units.
If a city has a railroad connection to MSS through owned or allied territory, then that city’s
available supply is at level 30.
If a city hasn’t got a railroad connection to a MSS, but there is a land connection through land
or allied territory, then MSS is delivering supply at level 15 to that city. If city’s ‘own supply’ is
higher than that, then city is using ‘own supply’.
There also can be a situation when the city is not connected with the MSS by land, but a convoy
is sent. If the convoy with supply is delivered to a city with railroads, then supply is delivered
using standard rules to other cities. In this case, supply is connected with the convoy, port and
by railroad or land to units.
Supply from cities to units is delivered with a cost. Supply level is reduced using movement
cost of motorized unit at given hex. So, if unit is three hexes (one plain and two forests) from
city connected by rails to the MSS, then the unit is getting supply equal to 25 (30-1-2-2=25).
17.2. LOWERED SUPPLY
A unit that has a lowered amount of supply also has the following:
»» lowered efficiency
»» lowered AP
»» lowered column during battle
»» lowered air-strike modifier
»» lowered maximum replacements
»» It might be impossible to perform strategic redeployment.

Above is what the manual is saying. In every game these rules apply only to german units and not to allied or soviet ones, no matter which is human or AI controlled. German units get the lowered efficiency for low supply (I am NOT talking about being out of supply for 1, 2, 3 or more turns etc etc, I am talking about supply being lower than 20)while the allied and soviet ones retain full strength with no low supply penalty. Don't tell me this is working as intended because it would mean the game designers just hate the germans lol. I am afraid I can't explain the problem any more thoroughly than i already have, but it seems that even the screenshots I posted fail to make me understood

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/29/2014 5:37:43 PM

Rasputitsa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: psofos

Don't tell me this is working as intended because it would mean the game designers just hate the germans lol

There are so many variables in the game it can be difficult to see 'the wood for the trees', but now you have explained your observations more fully I can see your point better.

Game settings can vary between nations and scenarios, AI and human play, but now you have highlighted the situation for German units. The following extracts are from the data files of the scenario 'Fall Weiss', the values that effect the supply hit on effectiveness levels are covered in the main scenario 'consts.ini' file as follows :

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt25]
EffectivityPenalty = 1
ActionPointsPenalty = 0
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = 0
AirStrikeModifier = 100
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 75
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 8

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt20]
EffectivityPenalty = 2
ActionPointsPenalty = 25
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -1
AirStrikeModifier = 90
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 50
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 5

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt15]
EffectivityPenalty = 3
ActionPointsPenalty = 34
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -2
AirStrikeModifier = 80
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 35
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 4

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt10]
EffectivityPenalty = 4
ActionPointsPenalty = 50
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -3
AirStrikeModifier = 70
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 30
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 3

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt5]
EffectivityPenalty = 5
ActionPointsPenalty = 75
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -4
AirStrikeModifier = 50
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 20
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 2

These values will apply to any nation (e.g. Poland) which doesn't have different values in its own 'national consts.ini' file.

Here are the same group of settings for Germany in the 'consts_Germany' file, which over-rides, for that nation, what is in the main scenario 'consts.ini' file.

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt25]
EffectivityPenalty = 2
ActionPointsPenalty = 25
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -1
AirStrikeModifier = 90
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 70
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 7

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt20]
EffectivityPenalty = 3
ActionPointsPenalty = 34
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -2
AirStrikeModifier = 80
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 45
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 4

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt15]
EffectivityPenalty = 4
ActionPointsPenalty = 50
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -3
AirStrikeModifier = 70
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 30
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 3

[UnitsPerformanceInRelationsToSupplyAt10]
EffectivityPenalty = 5
ActionPointsPenalty = 75
ColumnShiftDuringAirCombat = -4
AirStrikeModifier = 50
MaximumReplacementsForLandUnits = 20
MaximumReplacementsForAirUnits = 2

So these are the values for supply levels of 25 and lower and the Germans have been set to have a higher effectivity penalty than other nations. This is a design decision by the Devs, can't say whether it's because they hate the Germans

, but it is more likely that, with early versions of the game, the uberPanzers had way too much power and completely unbalanced the game. I am guessing that this was part of the attempt to re-balance things, but you can change these setting if you wish, like most things in these data files.

In your second screen-shot the 'Armia Poznan' is showing supply level 9 from Poznan and you would expect an effectivity penalty to apply at that level, so which scenario is this and is Poland under AI, or human control ? Many of the provisions in the data files do not apply to the AI, so that it will have a better chance against a human player, otherwise there would be little challenge in the single player game.

However, the Germans in particular, had supply problems from the beginning and throughout the war and most German units, even with an effectiveness drop, are still more powerful than comparable units of other nations, until the Allied get things together later in the war. The game may not be far wrong on this issue.

Overall the supply situation seems to work OK, it is difficult for the Germans, but so it should be, as they were not prepared for the long war they ended up with.

Much of the discussion on game features comes down to scenario design and at least the structure of the game is open and easily changed, if you don't agree with these design decisions.

Worth noting that, for the start of most games, the Axis is fighting on other countries' territory and therefore have supply and unit re-build restrictions. Other nations are usually defending on home territory and supply and unit re-build is much easier, carrying less penalty. It is easier to be in supply levels over 25 when in your own territory and where there will be no effectiveness penalty.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 10/30/2014 3:53:26 PM >

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RE: 2 important questions - 10/30/2014 12:16:31 AM

gwgardner
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quote:

ORIGINAL: psofos

Above is what the manual is saying. In every game these rules apply only to german units and not to allied or soviet ones, no matter which is human or AI controlled. German units get the lowered efficiency for low supply (I am NOT talking about being out of supply for 1, 2, 3 or more turns etc etc, I am talking about supply being lower than 20)while the allied and soviet ones retain full strength with no low supply penalty. Don't tell me this is working as intended because it would mean the game designers just hate the germans lol. I am afraid I can't explain the problem any more thoroughly than i already have, but it seems that even the screenshots I posted fail to make me understood

I'm tired of boring you with the facts. I've played this game since playtesting days, and there is no problem as you are describing. You are misinterpreting the facts.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 10/30/2014 1:18:15 AM >

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