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RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 6:19:43 AM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Califvol

... Yes, it is a movie so the story gets a bit contrived, but very authentic look and feel. ...


Well that is about what I suspected.

It was filmed by a British film crew so it goes without saying that would have a very authentic look and feel.

It was the Hollywood plot we were a apprehensive about as it would totally undermine the opportunity of a great film accurately portraying an aspect of the war largely ignored before this.

Glad you liked it. Looks like there might be some hope!!!!




Actually, I found the cinematography, film work and special effects to be one of the picayune shortcomings of the movie. So much for your British crew= best possible equation!


I've now seen the film and if I had to summarise it in one statement, it would be "Is that all??"

I'm afraid my opinion hasn't changed much. The authenticity was excellent and despite Chickenboy's misgivings the cinematography and editing was appropriate to supporting the plot such as it was. The film would have been much better had it been based on a novel with some depth.

For a moment we almost believed Ayre knew his Celtic mythology by including the white horse in the prelude and when the white hooves crossed the screen at the end we thought it was all going to come together in climatic plot revelation but no, it just petered out in the usual Hollywood cheesey ending.... There were several other potential plot hooks that also were not exploited.

Ayres seems to have been struggling as to what his film was really about and as a result it was succession of pointless scenes strung together.

It was great seeing the hardware driving around using plausible tactics but the true test is whether you would recommend the film to others. I would recommend this to someone with an interest in military history for a rarely seen glimpse of another time but I would hesitate to do so for anyone who just wants to watch a good movie.

The young women I saw walk out half way though obviously agree.



< Message edited by Reg -- 11/2/2014 8:00:31 AM >

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RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 8:24:29 AM   
Rising-Sun


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Status: offline 		I may look into it, brad have some pretty good cocky movies going out there. Just glad Jolie wasn't in it, it would have been a mess.

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RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 8:51:47 AM   
Reg


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If you are interested in war movies I would still give it a go as still has some interesting and authentic scenes. I would not say the film was bad, just disappointing.

However your Significant Other might not get so much out of it.

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Post #: 63
RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 9:16:34 AM   
Banzan

 

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Status: offline 		The german tanks like Tiger, Tiger II and Panther come along with a lot of myth. Nazi propaganda of tank commanders like Wittmann and the superior german tanks together with "soldiers talk" clouded the real facts even up to nowdays. :)
The Panther for example, was a great design, but far too difficult to handle for the german industrie. Even the "G" version was breaking down a lot due mechanical problems.

Allied Fighter-Bomber were a constant threat and even while they didn't destroy too many vehicles (in general), they effectly surpressed any daytime moving of armored units during the day. If they were forced to move on daylight, well, the unit would need far less fuel in the near future...

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RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 10:51:09 AM   
zuluhour


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Status: offline 		wonder if Brad would have bought Ema for him with 2 packs of cigs if it was Angelina....

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Post #: 65
RE: Fury - 11/2/2014 1:37:00 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Last scene is Hollywood crap
reminds me of LOTR Aragorn, Legolas and friends killing orcs.

Other than that, it is OK

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Post #: 66
RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 1:01:13 AM   
Ormbane


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Status: offline 		I saw the film today and I must say it brought back a few memories (Vietnam). Two things struck me: 1) the tank seemed to take a lot of punishment and survive. Couldn't believe the German misses with their panzershrecks or panzerfausts from so close, etc. 2) I was surprised at the amount of religious discussion, particularly at the end. Not quite sure what to make of it.

As far as plausible tactics I recall a relative who was with Patton in WW2 saying that one tactic was to try and hit the German tanks at the point where the turret and body met which would cause an instant weld so that the turret could not longer rotate. Then the Americans would try and hit the German from the side or rear.

Last scene was a bit overdone but it did remind me of Audi Murphy's single handed stand in the south of France, which I believe earned him his Medal of Honor.

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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 2:31:48 AM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormbane

Last scene was a bit overdone but it did remind me of Audi Murphy's single handed stand in the south of France, which I believe earned him his Medal of Honor.


Funny. After the movie I told my daughter the same thing....GP


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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 3:35:27 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Status: offline 		I finally buckled and went to the movie. The acting was better than the plot and certainly more credible than the tank battle schenes.....those were like something from a cheap computer game. Frankly Kelly's Heroes battle schenes were much better done 40 years ago!!!

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Post #: 69
RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 7:05:45 PM   
Numdydar

 

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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 7:35:54 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg
The film would have been much better had it been based on a novel with some depth.


Usually good novels with depth do not make good movies (or the other way 'round), but their are exceptions. I wish they could've added 15 or 20 minutes to the "Killer Angels" movie about Culp's Hill etc..

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Post #: 71
RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 7:51:29 PM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		It's funny, even though Chrichton worked on the screenplay for "Jurassic Park" the only animal from the Jurassic was Dilophosaurus. All the rest were from the Cretaceous or Triassic, and some of those weren't in the book. Another one of his, "Andromeda Strain" was an outstanding book, and a good movie too, though they had to leave a lot of stuff out.

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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 7:58:25 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Last scene is Hollywood crap
reminds me of LOTR Aragorn, Legolas and friends killing orcs.

Other than that, it is OK


Yeah, what happened to all those Panzer Fausts and why did one cause so little damage?

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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 7:59:28 PM   
geofflambert


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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 8:01:10 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I may look into it, brad have some pretty good cocky movies going out there. Just glad Jolie wasn't in it, it would have been a mess.


Playing an SS soldier?

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RE: Fury - 11/3/2014 11:12:47 PM   
Adolf Galland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Here is a clip of the Tiger vs Sherman tank scene in the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FymIXRr3HF0

I also found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7TRLpCM48

50,000 Shermans to kill 1,500 Tigers it says in this other clip. Is that true?


I think they were killed mainly by P-47s and tank killers etc.



The greatest part of tiger Tanks was give up by mechanic problems and combat damage (tracks) and fuel out......................... the tiger was not easy to recover. The Wehrmacht retreats make it difficult to recover the heavy tanks all german H Tanks have a short endurance 100 - 150 km all half hour or hour must the Heavy tank unit take a break... the engine overheat very fast !

What killed the german Tanks ? I say the Fuel........


I hear everytime... you need 5 sherman to kill one Tiger, i say that is Bullshit (sorry) Tiger Tanks operated never alone the work together. The smallest Tiger unit: the squad... the Tiger squad have 4 Tanks. When he operated alone the other Tanks was not Combat ready or loss !

( Tiger Tank have excellent Fire rate for his big gun and the important fact a superior optic ! )


I think the best method for a sherman to kill a tiger is not a open Firefight... a dirty ambush at a short distance. That make a sherman happy...

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 1:03:07 AM   
brian brian

 

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quote:


I've seen the claim that to American soldiers, all German tanks were Tigers and all German artillery were 88s. And of course, all Japanese fighter planes were Zeros.


I have read some collections of American soldier's diary entries, including a couple self-published ones (a little dry, but sometimes illuminating). You do take that away from such text, particularly about the 88s. Every incoming shell is from "those 88s opening up again"


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormbane

2) I was surprised at the amount of religious discussion, particularly at the end. Not quite sure what to make of it.



I think the point of that was all of a sudden Pitt's character knew his Bible quotes, chapter and verse, and this was suddenly new to the crew and a key part of his relationship with the religious crew member. And the general public of all nations was more involved in religion in the 1940s. I thought it gave the movie a boost in the authenticity department. It is also telling who smokes and drinks in the movie, and when.



Someone else mentioned the Celtic mythology. I caught the two appearances of the white horse, yes…I'll check the opening scene again someday to see if that horse had a red ear...

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 4:52:52 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		Saw it last night. Really worth watching for the technical effects. Otherwise really nothing new from most other war films. "We gotta hold this position." Tired and formulaic with the same ole stereotypes but decent acting. The battle scenes are made for the mass market and the video game generation and we history nuts just have to accept it. Quite frankly 200 SS infantry equipped with panzerfausts are going to make simple work out of a lone disabled tank and probably would not take a single casualty in the process. A guy standing on the deck of a tank mowing down huns with the 50 caliber is something out of my old Sargent Rock comic books. But I loved the tank and the other vehicles that were shown off very well in the film, so yes, go see it.

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 4:59:47 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		If you like tanks then I think this is a much better movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_(1988_film)

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 6:14:18 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Quite frankly 200 SS infantry equipped with panzerfausts are going to make simple work out of a lone disabled tank and probably would not take a single casualty in the process.


Uh...no. You're forgetting that these 200 supermen were in echelon march formation and surprised by the 'disabled' tank. IRL, an assumed harmless tank astride a line of echelon march that opened fire with its main gun and 4 MGs would have cut that column to pieces.

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 6:16:55 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
A guy standing on the deck of a tank mowing down huns with the 50 caliber is something out of my old Sargent Rock comic books.


I know. So unrealistic, idn't it?






ETA: You may recognize Audie Murphy in the artist's drawing. He won the Medal of Honor for just such a feat.

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< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 11/10/2014 7:17:40 PM >

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RE: Fury - 11/10/2014 11:29:24 PM   
Zigurat666


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I had to go to Jurassic park three or four times before I heard the music, really.

Sure,sure Gorn,the music...are you sure you didn't go four times because you thought you saw some lost relatives??

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 12:40:40 AM   
Ormbane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormbane

2) I was surprised at the amount of religious discussion, particularly at the end. Not quite sure what to make of it.



I think the point of that was all of a sudden Pitt's character knew his Bible quotes, chapter and verse, and this was suddenly new to the crew and a key part of his relationship with the religious crew member. And the general public of all nations was more involved in religion in the 1940s. I thought it gave the movie a boost in the authenticity department. It is also telling who smokes and drinks in the movie, and when.


Someone else mentioned the Celtic mythology. I caught the two appearances of the white horse, yes…I'll check the opening scene again someday to see if that horse had a red ear...


I heard an interesting story which illustrates the not uncommmon knowledge of the Bible in those days: The CO of the British forces surrounded at Dunkirk communicated his intentions to his superiors by sending just 3 words: "but if not". Someone not familiar with the book of Daniel (KJV) would probably not understand the reference and the intention.

While I have to agree with your observations about the sudden Bible quotes from Pitt's character I think the authors had more in mind than just that. Still, can't quite verbalize it myself.

I'm not familiar with the use of white horses in Celtic mythology but white horses as a symbol were fairly common in early times and were used to signify conquerors. They do show up in various Bible prophecies as well.

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 2:08:06 AM   
brian brian

 

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 2:33:50 AM   
Footslogger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

well, as they say, there are no atheists in foxholes.


Apparently, No Atheists in Foxholes originated in 1942 at the Battle of Bataan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 12:53:42 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Quite frankly 200 SS infantry equipped with panzerfausts are going to make simple work out of a lone disabled tank and probably would not take a single casualty in the process.


Uh...no. You're forgetting that these 200 supermen were in echelon march formation and surprised by the 'disabled' tank. IRL, an assumed harmless tank astride a line of echelon march that opened fire with its main gun and 4 MGs would have cut that column to pieces.



Well, a high school marching band might have been fooled like that but well trained troops would not let it happen. Besides they (the superman) seemed to spend the better part of the evening charging the bow MG. Even my dog knows to stay clear of my walking stick when I am mad....

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 1:50:48 PM   
Spidery

 

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quote:


Well, a high school marching band might have been fooled like that but well trained troops would not let it happen.


I assumed they were a scratch formation formed from Hitler Youth, cooks, etc. and not an experienced combat unit. Probably led by an officer with no combat experience and with inexperienced NCOs. That allowed me to suspend disbelief enough...

The youth of the German in the penultimate scene was supportive of this.

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 3:32:26 PM   
Endy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormbane

I heard an interesting story which illustrates the not uncommmon knowledge of the Bible in those days: The CO of the British forces surrounded at Dunkirk communicated his intentions to his superiors by sending just 3 words: "but if not". Someone not familiar with the book of Daniel (KJV) would probably not understand the reference and the intention.



Not entirely related but just an interesting fact is that in 1920 during the war against the Soviets the Polish military intelligence was jamming Soviet radio communications and filling their radio bands with quotes of large fragments from the Bible :) Not because of religion of course but it was an easy source of large parts of text suitable for the purpose and also because someone had a sense of humour to use it against the communists :)

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 9:22:40 PM   
jcjordan

 

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Status: offline 		I saw Fury the other day. I was pretty good only thing that I really hated was that the tracer fire looked more like a laser bolt fire from Star Wars rather than tracer fire.

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RE: Fury - 11/11/2014 10:42:08 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zigurat666


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I had to go to Jurassic park three or four times before I heard the music, really.

Sure,sure Gorn,the music...are you sure you didn't go four times because you thought you saw some lost relatives??







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