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Once more onto the breach, my friends... Fite 2 SolInvictus202 vs Ammann

 
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Once more onto the breach, my friends... Fite 2 SolInvi... - 11/4/2014 11:12:22 AM   
MAurelius


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Dear armchair generals,

It's been a long time since I have written an AAR on this forum – and back then I was writing about my campaigns in WITP AE....
TOAW has always had my interest – there is no doubt about that, although I have never been fascinated by anything but the largest and most complex scenarios – probably because I simply love WITP AE – despite its many flaws and short comings....

Thus my opponent Ammann and myself (I am usually known as SolInvictus202 around the internet – I had that name here on this forum as well – but I somehow lost the password to this account many years back – I therefore had to switch to my backup Roman idol :) ) have started a Fite campaign a few months ago...

We reached a grand total of 23 turns until the Wehrmacht (played by Ammann) got bogged down in trench warfare all over the map. We still don't quite know whether it was the slow advance by the Germans that gave me enough time to form a continuous MBL/HKL or whether it was the employed Opart3Xb – we shall never know... :)

Well – after we had decided to start over, I suggested that we first tried to look at Fite 2 – an even larger and even more complex scenario than the “normal” Fite...
Thanks to Ammann – who requisitioned the scenario from its excellent designers – we now find ourselves again on the eve of battle....

and like a thousand other commanders, on a thousand other battlefields.... I wait for the dawn!




I know this AAR my be a little different than the “usual” matrix AARs – but having written quite a number of AARs in my time I have developed my own style and hope that people will like it on this forum just as well :) - I usually use a lot of pictures to support my text - consistent with the saying: a picture say a thousand words...
I usually try to stay objective and on topic... if I fail to do so occasionally – oh well :)

Reports will probably stay rather “dry” as I am used to a “to the point” style of writing – having served in the military for quite a while... a fact that will probably also influence my play style a lot....

I am currently working on a list of OOBs that concentrate on the different Russian Fronts/Army groups – using the in-game colours to give the player some help when it comes to organizing the huge amount of forces...
I know there is something like that already included in the graphics folder – but I for one am used to seeing military symbols used for such a thing – and therefore will probably post these lists as part of the AAR as I get around to actually finishing them – hoping that it will help others too...
I for one need an idea where my forces are and where they need to go – and since there is a new “corps” structure in this game – which are only connected to the army by “colour” I thought it might be useful....


As a conclusion: Comments, suggestions, criticism are always welcome and appreciated – I do hope that I will be able to entertain you with this upcoming AAR....

it will be a “joint” AAR – so it will be some time until it actually kicks off – simply due to the fact that my opponent “Ammann” is currently working on turn 1 for the German side (The simple reason for him picking the Germans again is that he has only played this side so far – just as I have only played the Russians – however believe me when I tell you – I am getting more and more interested in playing the Wehrmacht every day )

The way this is going to work is that we will both add each other's post – but a word of warning: my friend Ammann is no expert when it comes to his English – just like me ;) - so please forgive if it isn't always pristine Oxford dialect....

Of course this means that anything like “plans” will have to wait until they have actually be put into action – but this goes along well with my saying “No enemy shall survive contact with THE PLAN”




But now enough of my ramblings



ONCE MORE ONTO THE BREACH, MY FRIENDS....
Cry havoc and let lose the dogs of war.....




< Message edited by MAurelius -- 11/4/2014 1:34:15 PM >


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Northern Front OOB - 11/4/2014 11:20:42 AM   
MAurelius


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As I promised here a preview to the OOBs I was talking about - I have yet to check its validity, considering that there are some differences between the OOBs I use and the ones in-game - as already described by the designers - due to playability!

Since there are soooo many units it will probably take quite a while to compile all the units into such pictures - but I will post them as I get around to working on these....


we start off with the "Northern Front" - of course because this is the most likely front not to lose any units during the first turn, which I currently await from my opponent




< Message edited by MAurelius -- 11/4/2014 12:28:58 PM >


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formerly known as SoliInvictus202

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Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 1:00:19 PM   
MAurelius


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Overview of the armies deployed at the front line:

(only approximate locations – but it gives a general idea, I believe...)










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formerly known as SoliInvictus202

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 2:16:29 PM   
Cfant

 

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Oh well, Sol, how could I overlook your AAR? Shame on me! Of course I will follow this struggle, as I was badly beaten by your Soviets in our FitE-attempt. After 20 turns my Wehrmacht was in the shape of Real-Life-44. AFTER Bagration. I hope Amman can give you a harder struggle for your money
A very good map. What are the blue counters? Do they belong to Northern Front HQ? I also wonder, if 8. Army and 11. Army don't belong to Northern Front? Or is there an own "Baltic Front"? I don't wish you luck, Comrade, as I think Amman will have a hard time in this fight So I just wish you much fun!

By the way: Is the scenario-description available anywhere?

(in reply to MAurelius)
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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 3:08:55 PM   
MAurelius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

Oh well, Sol, how could I overlook your AAR? Shame on me! Of course I will follow this struggle, as I was badly beaten by your Soviets in our FitE-attempt. After 20 turns my Wehrmacht was in the shape of Real-Life-44. AFTER Bagration. I hope Amman can give you a harder struggle for your money
A very good map. What are the blue counters? Do they belong to Northern Front HQ? I also wonder, if 8. Army and 11. Army don't belong to Northern Front? Or is there an own "Baltic Front"? I don't wish you luck, Comrade, as I think Amman will have a hard time in this fight So I just wish you much fun!

By the way: Is the scenario-description available anywhere?






Ahhh - the mighty Cfantus


I do agree and hope that this will be an epic struggle... the stage is set - let's hope the protagonists don't fail in their duty

to your questions:

1) the blue counters are the 23rd Army - which is part of the Northern Front (it holds the line north of Leningrad against the Finns) - the reason it is blue is that it's the colour used in the scenario Fite 2

the main plan for these lists is to help a Russian player organise his forces and sort of connect the colours with his units/armies and thus know where to redeploy/reinforce or position them in the first place!


2)8th and 11th Army are part of the North Western Front - which used to be the Baltic Special Military district ...



overall one should mention that there are 4 armies per front in this scenario - due to colour restrictions imposed by the game - so Western Front is somewhat smaller than it used to be.... etc

< Message edited by MAurelius -- 11/4/2014 4:14:29 PM >


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Post #: 5
RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 3:35:12 PM   
Ammann


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Good day values TOAWler

My opponent has already done the beginning.
I am pleased to be able to play tjis great scenario and test.
Since my English is not very good I let my texts on the internet translate and hope you can read it halfway and all understand what I mean at all.

The first turn is already in the works and when the time comes you will also get to see footage necessary.

(in reply to MAurelius)
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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 8:04:47 PM   
ogar

 

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Amman,

Welcome ! This looks to be an exciting AAR. And with Amman playing defense as the Soviets, this will be very interesting. Don't worry too much about the English text. The excellent screen shots and graphics that you put in your other AARs (SI) tell the story themselves.

Sol, er, Marcus,
Nice to see you. Looks to be an exciting thread, although I can think of easier opponents than Amman to deal with.

(in reply to Ammann)
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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/4/2014 9:16:45 PM   
MAurelius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ogar

Amman,

Welcome ! This looks to be an exciting AAR. And with Amman playing defense as the Soviets, this will be very interesting. Don't worry too much about the English text. The excellent screen shots and graphics that you put in your other AARs (SI) tell the story themselves.

Sol, er, Marcus,
Nice to see you. Looks to be an exciting thread, although I can think of easier opponents than Amman to deal with.



actually Ammann will play the Germans and I will be tasked with the glorious defense of the motherland

I do hope that it will be a good match - most importantly of all - a long one

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/7/2014 12:55:05 PM   
bluesrocks

 

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Very nice! I am awaiting the first combat rounds eagerly! All the best for both sides.

________________

also known as Arminius ;)

(in reply to MAurelius)
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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/8/2014 4:39:22 AM   
Ammann


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From: Germany
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So dear readers,it is seriously....
The round is played by no means finished,but I have now completed all preparations for the first round of combat,and you can sometimes purely make a few pictures.
We would also like that I will need for the round at the end in about twice as long as for Fite 1.

At the beginning you get a first option without partisans to play,but MAurelius and our humble self have agreed not to do these bloodsuckers finally belonge.



The images I have to add something later because unfortunately I can insert just after the left post 10

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:43:44 AM >

(in reply to bluesrocks)
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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/8/2014 9:24:59 AM   
Ammann


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So dear readers, the first turn is completed, if the machining at Stavka, so it is time to begin to evaluate the round.

Come we first recorded the losses both air forces.
If you repeatedly click the button Airbriefing you get mostly 3 different numbers.
Agree the 66's losses, in the inventory counted, but the enemy the numbers look like this ....
6374 or 5078 or 3808 Soviets airplaines
if we did not err us Plankalkül/Telumar the times explains the mean number (here 5078) to take and divide by 2, that are then so much the loss of the Russians, so about 2539 machines ...
you may correct us if we have misrepresented the now.

< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/8/2014 10:38:10 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/13/2014 3:18:15 PM   
Ammann


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The new Turn is there, now it is called first to see 17523 movements.

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:13:04 AM   
Ammann


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Please, does not surprise you, but I will write my first texts individually and if then it goes also insert my pictures, afterwards I will write all following(resulting) summarised.

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:15:13 AM   
Ammann


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Here we see the majority of the army group the north to recognise(see) always in the counters black on grey.
The Russian border troops are surrounded and the armed forces are ready to the attack, with the enemy's troops it concerns around the 10Th and 11Th infantry corps the 8Th Russian army.
While our infantrymen still with these enemy's troops deal own motorised associations are already a little other(farther) and pursue armed clarification.



< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:42:47 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:18:39 AM   
Ammann


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Here the army groups the north and middle separate (white on grey).
It is first everywhere same(identical)... encircled enemy's troops.



< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:44:21 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:28:51 AM   
Ammann


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Enclosed a close-up of the fight space of Bialystok to recognise(see) how is nicely our armoured troops have already covered(referred) in the back of the enemy's position(standpoint)
and with it(thus) it had to do possibly his(its) to the enemy the escape(getaway) to refuse provided that his(its) troops are not shocked.



< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:44:54 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:36:57 AM   
Ammann


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In the fight for the fortress Brest the last preparations are made at the moment, held we this bulwark by the 28Th corps the 4Th Soviet army.



< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:45:24 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/16/2014 4:47:10 AM   
Ammann


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Troops of the army group the south penetrate(insist) one into the gigantic empire......., nevertheless, are disturbed everywhere by border troops now it is a matter of switching off.





Now this is everything still to round one, round 2 is currently in treatment(adaptation).

< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 11:46:31 AM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/23/2014 10:57:27 AM   
Ammann


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Turn 2

We are to broadcast Riga very close and it would happen who knows what not to reach this next round.



Last round was in Riga incidentally, a heavy artillery regiment stationed which has, however, withdrawn.
Our scouts it was under eat but managed to make it so we could find our losschicken not quite as far-reaching bombers and fighter planes.
For the actual beginning of the attack, the regiment possessed about 23-25 big guns ....
.... in this picture the unit after the second attack ..... good conclusion to the entire unit could be destroyed.



.... The only destroys times as an example .... in the whole round were at least 8 artillery regiments, of course, not all of our bombers .....

Since in round 2 nothing happens too earth-shattering, we show below the boiler Bialystok.
After we have completed the movements of our associations in this section, the store is described as tight.



Here again a little further out.



At the end of the round, the smaller of the two boiler is already well cleaned, with the evacuation of the entire battle space expects the OKH in round 4, but the
Thing will be completed next round already to 80% so that a large part of the organizations involved the advance will be able to continue.



To conclude with the evaluation of the Air Force.
Despite this, we were able to destroy a lot of enemy airmen Counter again the launch numbers seem to us rather low.


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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/23/2014 11:08:29 AM   
Ammann


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Turn 3

The image of what they see gentlemen is the broadcast .....
but to start of the round succeeded the reconnaissance battalion of the skull Division a small Hussarenstück.
We have achieved the largest city of the Baltic states.
Where the unit is now had a Russian artillery regiment want to obtain its position, but even as the gun crews tried
convulsively set up their guns to ground attack they were already overrun and everything was over so quickly that they could understand it not at all what ever was going on.
Subsequently, the commander of the reconnaissance agreed to air liaison officer who immediately ansetzte out on some of the available Ju-87 on these fleeing unit and this could also be destroyed.

After a certain person from TOPPING about the situation in battle space had made an image associated this to the two reconnaissance units of the armed forces who had surrounded the Russian armored regiment with
to be detached by standing near infantry advance over Riga addition, unfortunately sent the commander of this fast combat group both units at the same distance to the front, he had a
the Wehrmacht had recognized these units along the other rail line still can take one or two kilometers of railway track undamaged.
By the end of this round, the rail was damaged namely at 0%, starting next round, all the tracks are our troops enter 100% destroyed.

Over the next round of our armored associations will advance further to come across large currents do us the division's engineer units nothing, that requires another device ....
and this only counter such as the circled here in red, so you can tell by the these are the only units that can prepare a stream to cross.



Next round will be the first of our units come in the near Minsk.
The field fortifications before the city could be identified in part already, it will be interesting what we can expect here.



In Bialystok the situation could still be cleaned up quickly as anticipated, however, rendered the enemy forces in view of their hopeless situation fierce resistance.
After most of the fighting was over now pulled the Local commander a rough balance of what destroyed, looted or was captured.
It was here no less than 11 armored regiments, artillery regiments 2, 9 motorized infantry regiments, 1 Anti Tank Brigade, 1st Cavalry and 3 regiments of infantry,
that comes a whole host of 10th and 3rd Army headquarters .... .... 11th, 13th and 14th Mechanized Corps .... 4th, 33th, 7th and 29th Panzer Division and 204th Mechanized Division 29th .... .. ..184th and 85th Infantry Division.



Here we see the next bastion on our march .... the Stalin Line, let's see here are what Sol has to stop us, hopefully takes the story not too long.



The aircraft losses amounted to 33 own machines ca 560 enemy (1132 divided by 2).



< Message edited by Ammann -- 11/23/2014 3:51:38 PM >

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/23/2014 11:17:39 AM   
Ammann


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Turn 4

Wheels must roll .... and they also roll the reconnaissance battalion of the 1st Armored Division is on the rise durch's Baltic States,
to come up against this and ever convert a few hexes we will send you our partisan unit to the southwest ....
meet is not a problem, but we can not convert hex with this unit, those are things that can not ancestral, well you can not change.



All enemies in Riga were turned off and you could maintain the city would have been in that round our .... but if it is not,
because the Russians were able to light their explosives still stands in the urban area not only bridge more and unfortunately we did not have enough movement points pioneers on site.



Our advance troops reach the Russian positions in front of Minsk, an attack that round but we did not, here we are next round see what to do.



It was previously assumed in the Army High Command of the Russian Stalin Line had always occupied, but that's probably not the case, just north of Shepetovka is a large gap in the position
and accurately characterized, we will send our mobile formations and afterwards to circumvent the infantry divisions to the Russians and starve.



The Romanian leadership has now to participate in combat on the Eastern Front to the stolen Bessarabia to get actively committed back.
Leaving behind 6 full-fledged divisions in the home country (this is a house rule) exceed the Romanians together with their German brothers in arms the border and go on the attack.



The enemy aircraft losses decrease and ours rise in proportion to the launch digits sharply.
This is due to the fact that the Russians slowly recovering from his initial shock, our squadrons by the permanent missions to the limit and it is these were just a few enemy counter for us to reach.




Any spelling and grammatical errors may keep them

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RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/24/2014 8:57:42 AM   
MAurelius


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Just wanted to drop you a quick note from my side as well:


I believe it is quite obvious why the Russian side is a bit more cautious posting detailed maps of its new positions after the initial onslaught....
This is one of the major restrictions of an AAR that includes both sides....

Rest assured however that I am preparing maps for every turn - and eventually i will post them... I have just sent my turn 4 back to my opponent - so the game is coming along nicely....
I believe once we reach turn 5 or 6 I can safely start showing pictures of the "earlier" turns... the main problem is simply to avoid giving my opponent any idea of my MLR...it's the one thing standing between the German army and the rest of Russia :P




on a more general note:

Playing this monster scenario for the first time is a huge undertaking - and unlike Fite1 it is much more complex for the Russian player.... even FINDING the units that belong to one army (direct in-game formations are only shown on a corps level) is a nightmare - and utterly impossible without the beautiful OOB sent to us by the designers - especially since not all the units are depicted historically due to balance and other issues...


The first few turns have been marked by utter defeat - the cancellation of the initial plan of "taking the fight to the enemy" - and most of all - lots and lots of shocked troops....
one turn 1 and 2 almost all of my front line troops were unable to move at all....

I have recently started a game as the Germans and there my opponent has had no issues withdrawing lots of troops from the frontline in turn 1 - simply because he had more luck than me when it came to "which troops were shocked".... oh well....



one issue that has really come up was the ridiculous interdiction... neither me or my "Russian" opponent have complaint about the intensity... it's rather the "range" that is a bit off.... because trains are being attack far east of Moscow and some even in the Caucasus.... not quite realistic...

I suppose it has to do with the maximum range of the Ju88 etc... but still... Germans did not attack trains in the first week of the war far east of Moscow :) - that much is certain ;)




apart from that it is simply a highly addictive and beautifully created scenario which finally presents a proper challenge for both players....


currently STAVKA is working on forming a proper MLR angled on natural terrain obstacles and other useful positions... ahead of this army we have positioned troops in strategically important towns and villages, that provide the defenders with some better terrain to slow the enemy down...

unlike the initial plan we decided NOT to defend the Stalin-line - simply due to the fact that soooo many units of the Russian army have values of "1 1" - especially the Mech Corps are utterly useless - and can , IMO, only be used in conjuction with other units in defensive lines.... the few "better" units the Russian army has been able to save from the initial slaughter of turn 1 and 2 have been placed, or are currently being maneuvered into the most important positions along the MLR....

only contact with the enemy in these prepared positions will show us if the Russian army has ANY chance of defending any position in 41... currently I am not so sure - but then again the values of the unit counters quickly increase when they reach "F" status.... so I am not entirely without hope when it comes to holding certain towns....


as described in the manual there are certain KEY TOWNS that if taken by a certain turn, provide the German player with more turns of 150 shock - most of these towns are easily captured within this limit: like Riga or Lvov by turn 6 (my opponent will take it by turn 5) or Kiev by turn 24 !!! (should be taken LONG before that)

but there are some other towns that could prove DIFFICULT for the German player to capture within the allotted time - and these are the towns we intend to defend to the last - cause if we can prevent the German player from getting another boost of 150 shock - and keep him at 120.. well.. BIG DIFFERENCE! :)

so much for my plans and strategies - anything further will have to wait, unfortunately - because the enemy is reading this as well ;)



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formerly known as SoliInvictus202

(in reply to Ammann)
Post #: 22
RE: Overview of the entire front line - 11/24/2014 11:35:03 AM   
Cfant

 

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Well, MAurelius, the opponent you mentioned had to find out, that his troops were mainly shocked on turn 2. So it was no escape for a lot of them

@shock: As I understand it, the 150-shock is only for one turn. If you pass the check on turn 6, you have shock 150 on turn 7, going back to 120 on turn 8

(in reply to MAurelius)
Post #: 23
RE: Overview of the entire front line - 12/5/2014 5:31:05 PM   
Ammann


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Turn 5....07.06.1941

So here is the first replenishment position in space Riga's.
The first picture is from the end of Round 4 and the second at the beginning of round 5, one can see beautiful as the situation improves between rounds ...
... but we later in HKL not know what to do with all the supplies goods will not happen to us, we make no illusions that it will probably not be so generous.





While Riga has been declared a stage and the first Fronttheater occur we will send some quick Associations forward around the area so explore
in the following round our units are then easier to have suffered during the advance and no increased movement cost and power losses.



The city of Minsk should already be next round completely enclosed, then we will find that the city itself is also defend or not.
It would be nice of course if we get the railway line as soon as possible so freely supplies and troop transports roll freely.



The farce of the so-called Stalin Line is evident several motorized units have already passed through the gaping hole and the education department of The Empire
is already on the outskirts of Zhitomir which is defend only by an infantry regiment.
The rest of the Stalin line we need to eliminate, of course, because we can not get around it unfortunately, but that is already in progress and next round, the gap should be even larger.



Then of course it is not far to Kiev, but, according to our findings, the field positions have been sighted in the run-up to the city.
It is therefore to be assumed that 99% of Russians along the red dashed line relate its positions and will give us neatly scale,
a frontal attack us should therefore be costly, the better alternative would certainly be a circumvention of the fortified positions on both sides of the city on the Dnieper River.



The air battles in the entire airspace slack off and meanwhile we fly now increasingly on lockdown.
20 own losses of about 35-40 machines are hostile towards.

(in reply to Cfant)
Post #: 24
RE: Overview of the entire front line - 1/5/2015 1:46:08 PM   
MAurelius


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just a quick note from the "Russian" side:

I am the reason for the lack of new reports - my opponent sent me his turn before Christmas - but due to several reasons - including health issues and the usual "holiday" delays I was unable to return it until about a week ago - but if all goes well we are back on track :)

I do hope that the enemy soon catches up with my MLR - so that I can finally start posting pictures of the Russian front ;)




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