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Ship Release Management - 2/25/2003 10:55:07 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Is it just me, or would it be helpful to be able to place a "hold release" on ships being released from Tokyo/Pearl Harbor?

"Why the hell would you want to do that?", you ask.

My reasoning is that often times I'm waiting on a big piece of equipment to be sent to me (a Carrier or a Battleship), but the game sees that it can send me a Cruiser group. What then happens is that cruiser group sucks up the available DD's, leaving the CV's or BB's (and some CA/CL/CLAA's) that arrive a few days later, with NO DD escort for several days!

If there were a "hold release" button that held up Men 'O War (Merchantmen would not be affected), we could manage the process a little better.

In my solo (vs the AI) adventures, I do it manually by reducing the rate down to 70%.

I understand that there would still be no guarantee that the ships I wanted would be released, but more often than not, the CV or BB left behind gets released when it has enough escort.

As an aside, I would love the Return mechanism to be enhanced a bit to be able to send an entire TF back. It would save a few mouse clicks.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
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CVB Langley:
Post #: 1
Re: Ship Release Management - 2/26/2003 2:01:12 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]....................

If there were a "hold release" button that held up Men 'O War (Merchantmen would not be affected), we could manage the process a little better.

................ [/B][/QUOTE]

You aren't supposed to be managing the process - that is the job of the big brass.:)

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 2
Re: Re: Ship Release Management - 2/26/2003 2:17:13 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]You aren't supposed to be managing the process - that is the job of the big brass.:) [/B][/QUOTE]I think that if the brass saw that there were major assets that could be deployed by better arranging departures, it would be done.

My gripe is when there are no CV's or BB's deployed in theater, but there's a cruiser group that just stranded one in Tokyo/Pearl when it sucked up all the available DD's to escort it, when waiting 2-5 days the whole group could go.

If UV were Midway, TF16 with [I]Enterprise[/I] and [I]Hornet[/I] would have sucked up all the CA's and DD's, leaving poor [I]Yorktown[/I] high and dry a few days later in Pearl all dressed up with no one to go to the ball with.

My point is that the game doesn't manage the logistics effectively, not that I want to become a Meglomaniac about "why won't the game release my CV's/BB's when I plenty of escort!!!" I'm simply talking about management of assets.;)

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
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(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 3
- 2/26/2003 9:57:23 PM   
rcwkent

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: New York City
Status: offline 		Hi Admiral.

I view the ships "In Pearl Harbor" issue on a completely different level. The ships are not actually at Pearl in reserve but in another theater altogether- Central Pacific, Atlantic .

In a head to head game I'm playing - Jun 43 - there are 'at Pearl' 5 CV's 4 CVL's 9 BB's 12 CA's 13 CL's 60+ DD's

In theater the USN has 4 CVE's 3 CLAA's 3 CL's 1 BB and 35 DD's

The ship release is "moderate" as it has been for months. And currently on the way from Pearl are 17 AK,8 LST, 6 SC, 4 DMS, 1 MSW 1 APD ans 2 SS.

While frustrating on the USN side here, I can only imagine there's
alot of action in the central pacific and atlantic that is utilizing the capital ships that I'm told are "at Pearl."

I just send back ship I can't use and hope for the best. Many games I've played I've had an abundance of forces. I view it as I do the weather- a part of the game I cannot control.

_____________________________

"I don't know what the heck this logistics is that Marshall is always talking about, but I want some of it"
Admiral Ernest J King

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 4
Re: Re: Re: Ship Release Management - 2/26/2003 10:07:03 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]I think that if the brass saw that there were major assets that could be deployed by better arranging departures, it would be done.

............... [/B][/QUOTE]

All commanders think the higher brass are jerks and they themselves could do better.:D :)

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 5
- 2/26/2003 10:17:57 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
My point is that the game doesn't manage the logistics effectively, not that I want to become a Meglomaniac about "why won't the game release my CV's/BB's when I plenty of escort!!!" I'm simply talking about management of assets.[/QUOTE] You guys are still mis-reading my point. The point is that the program does not seem to take into account what assets are coming ready when, and apportion escorts accordingly.

I again am not railing about "why am I not getting that CV?" but about why is the game releasing a bunch of CA/CL's when if it WAITED a few more days, it could have release a CV or BB WITH THAT VERY TF?

I've played the game enough (I bought it at its release) to know that you do not get all the ships that are available in Pearl/Tokyo dependant upon the points committed already, etc.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 6
- 2/27/2003 12:46:06 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		I understand you completely, but I really don't know what can be done about it from a game premise.

You are assuming that the big tasty capital ship actually WILL get released to you, and that it makes logical sense to delay the group until this ship can be added to the TF that comes through...

You need to look at it slightly differently, that this tasty capital ship may actually sit in PH/Japan for the entire game, never being released at all and then you will see that holding the release of this other group for a few days in case this other ship gets released too is no longer really a good thing.

Look at it this way: Would you rather have NO ships because nothing will release until that CV gets a good die roll?


As far as RC's post, gotta feel for him as the dice are really rolling against him or it is a non-stock scenario, as the Allied commitment level at that time period is sky high and those ships should be flowing in droves to him ... based on the various posts on this topic, release rates should be as high for the Allied player in mid '43 as they are for Japan at the very start of the game...

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 7
- 2/27/2003 2:10:51 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Mr.Frag,

I agree with you in that I'm not looking for a guarantee for the release of the big ship. What I am saying is that if Probability is High, and the game's code IS going to release the big ship, then it should manage the escort resources better.

If the game wasn't going to release it anyway, then the point is moot, so send the other ships.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 8
- 2/27/2003 2:42:42 AM   
Veer


Posts: 2231
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Excuse me
Status: offline 		Infinite loops would be a problem. Say it actually is programmed in, so the game realises that they got a BB coming online in 3 days, so it decides to wait three days before realsing ships. Then 3 days later it notices another CVE will be availiable in 4 days so delays it again... and so on. End result you never get the ships that you want when you want. What if don't want another BB, but send me those d*mn DD's and CA's!!!???
I doubt you'll be able to come up with a system which pleases everybody. Just be glad to know that your opponent will be labouring under similar circumstances, grit your teeth and make the most of what you've got.

Also i've got a sneaky suspicison that the game compares capital ships on both sides before assigning you any. Say your opponent has 3 BB's and you have 2, but your opponent has another 5 BB's elsewhere in the Pacific, and you got another 3 sitting in Pearl. Chances of those 3 being released to you are low even if your commitment level is 'HIGH'.

Otherwise you may as well just implement a tried and true requistion system, where players are assigned 'points' and can then 'spend' them on the ships they want. This could either be :rolleyes: , or :cool: depending on your POV.

_____________________________

In time of war the first casualty is truth. - Boake Carter

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 9
- 2/27/2003 2:45:07 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		I would guess when Gary designed this routine, he based it on the fact that ships do incure SYS damage at a fairly quick rate and do need to be sent back, so there should always be a high enough pool of DD's sitting in Pearl or Japan to escort back the capital ships properly.

Two things seem to come into play here ... the release level is dynamic based on date in the game and commitment levels and is tied to the current level of shipping in theater. There seems to be different levels maintained for different catagories of ships that factors into this as I have never noticed a group of DD's coming by themselves.

It's like < DD comes when they come in dribs and drabs when available.

DD's never come alone no matter how many there are.

> DD only come when escorted by DD's (make sure you always have more then 5 DD's sitting available!!!)

It also appears that the < DD levels are independant of the > DD levels, as I still see ships in the < DD catagory being released quickly even when rates are showing LOW.

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 10
- 2/27/2003 2:52:48 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		I'm only talking about the feasibility of creating a button that would turn "on" and "off" the [I]chance[/I] of release probability. There would be no chance of a loop.

Say if ship deployments were on "HOLD" and the CV or BB that I wanted came into Pearl/Tokyo. I turn off the "HOLD" but the CV/BB isn't released, I would then know that it wasn't for a lack of escort.

As to keeping an eye on the level of DD's available, it's not often that one can predict that very well.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 11
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