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RE: Indian fightings - 11/12/2014 6:00:58 AM

GreyJoy

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The situation in the Tsuyun pocket must be dire, supply wise. I've bombed the hell out of them for 2 weeks now and i see signs of collapsing. 6 Divisions (3 for each session of rotation) will attack. He may be able to stand few turns, thanks to the terrain, but as soon as the supplies gets to 0, their combat power will be reduced to 25%. And they won't be able to get any supply, so there should be a downhill effect pretty soon. Different thing for Changsha...here i will have to be more patient, but i think we can get there, while we keep on advancing north with our tanks.
I really need to clear my flanks from those two pockets if i want to really attack the plains

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Post #: 1021

RE: Indian fightings - 11/12/2014 5:04:53 PM

GreyJoy

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Dec 23-24, 1942

China: a good day. Two days of deliberate attacks on the northern part of the Tsuyun pocket are enough to break the back of the Chinese resistance. Now we will push forward in order to put the word "end" on that damned pocket.
round combat at 75,50 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 40375 troops, 371 guns, 96 vehicles, Assault Value = 1168

Defending force 37958 troops, 209 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 847

Japanese adjusted assault: 929

Allied adjusted defense: 424

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1116 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 98 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
12065 casualties reported
Squads: 519 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 389 destroyed, 69 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 27 (25 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 5

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
39th Division
6th Division
16th Division
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
58th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps

SOPAC: bad luck here. We made a good ambush with our KB2 on the usual bombing runs of his cruisers at Nauru Island. Unseen we arrived in perfect position, 6 hexes from the target, near Ocean island. ...Out of 50 Vals and 70 Kates only 26 Vals took off

and scored two light hits on the CL COncord and on a DD... damn!
Don't know why the kates didn't lunch. Good DL, perfect morale...etc... I know my job and there is no reason other than bad weather or bad luck. Oh well....

We also ambushed a couple of SDB runs in the solomons... 15 dive bombers shot down for free. Not bad! I take it :-)

W-OZ: The allies are advancing towards Kalgoorite!!!! On foot!!!! A full Aus Division and some AA units... bombed by my betties... Reinforcements are on their way. Don't find this move too smart if not in combo with an amphib landing, so I must assume he's coming by sea too! Warming my engines...

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Post #: 1022

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 5:38:50 AM

GreyJoy

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China, 26 Dec, 1942

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Post #: 1023

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 5:41:11 AM

GreyJoy

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Western OZ....

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Post #: 1024

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 5:50:01 AM

GreyJoy

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SOPAC

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Post #: 1025

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 7:28:17 AM

veji1

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I understand that is the goal, but what would make Obvert oblige ?

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Post #: 1026

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 7:43:22 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I understand that is the goal, but what would make Obvert oblige ?

eheh, nothing!
Erik is a smart guy and knows his job. However I know that, when you play with the allies, you tend to consider your LCU way more than what the Japanese does. You really care for them and don't want to waste them.
If I manage to make some vectors less inviting than others, I may "push" him to chose the easiest way (which, BTW, is the shortest to Japan.

I would like him to think: <<Why should I bother advancing on a series of high-risk operations against well fortified positions, when I can chose a way easier route?>>
To make the central pacific vector looks "easier" I must make the other ones look grim.

So, the advance towards the DEI through the Gulf of Carpentaria, must face two strong bastions before reaching Darwin area: Horn island and Mereuake. both are well fortified and with plenty of units. Two divisions and some heavy Arty are already waiting to be moved there.
The advance from western Oz will see the strongpoints of Port-Hedland/Broome, where a whole Army is fortied and waiting for the enemy. I wouldn't want to get there.
Ceylon-India-Burma, will take a lot of time and, before advancing towards the Bay of Bengal and Burma-Sumatra, he will need to make an high-risk operation against Ceylon... will take time and, hopefully, by that time, I will have moved back to safer positions in Sumatra and Burma.
The Eastern NG vector...from Buna to Lae and then to Hansa-Bay area, will see the fortifications around Finshtaffen-Umboi Island, where I am concentrating lots of CD guns, AA units and forts. It will take lot of time to get through that bottle-neck.
Considered all of these, the central pacific and NorthEastern SOPAC (Bouganville, Kavieng etc) is way easier. I haven't fortified anything...he just need to leap-frog... takes time, obviously...preparation etc... but should be much more inviting...

He surely can do an "hail-mary" to Java or to the Kuriles... but not before mid 1943 I guess... and by that time I hope to have freed up a lot of Chinese units

How does it sound?

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Post #: 1027

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 7:45:23 AM

GreyJoy

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Oh, and finally the supplies are rising again. After I stopped the air-expansion program, now I am saving 5000 supplies every day

...still way low (6.650M), but at least they are rising

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Post #: 1028

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 9:24:15 AM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh, and finally the supplies are rising again. After I stopped the air-expansion program, now I am saving 5000 supplies every day...still way low (6.650M), but at least they are rising

What do you mean by stopping the air expansion program ? Do you mean your research on some models ? Many ? Disregarding the whole Sian issue and its consequences, 1 year into the game with PDU off, what would you do differently regarding you airforce (research, use, etc)?

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Post #: 1029

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 11:19:29 AM

ny59giants

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IMO, you have about three more months to dig in before I would expect serious amphib ops. The Allies can convert those APs to APAs in 2/43 and then get them headed to front lines.

Once I took Horn Island (lots of BB TFs running in from Portland Roads for weeks), the base made a good platform to take Merauke. Merauke is too isolated to take on the Allied Navy and the hordes of B-24s that come that way. Obvert will have to learn "The Art of Amphibious Attacks" like all Allied players have done and most Japanese players never have to. We both know that the skill can be costly in the beginning.

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 12:36:36 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

SOPAC

I favor the NG route over the Central Pacific at this stage. Allied carriers just cannot go head to head with Japanese carriers until mid to late 43. There is less risk on this route plus invading atolls is much more dangerous. The idea is to fight the Japanese as much as possible but at points of lower risk. I don't think you really need to worry about taking at lot of ground. The key is to stick a foot into the Japanese door and start a fight. With India, China and a third active theater grinding away you should be defeating Japan on a economic scale. The in late 43 you can really start to grab territory and look for a big carrier fight. The long term Allied plan should be to exhaust Japan, then the military situation just opens up. NG is a fine place to start grinding. The Central Pacific has quick bursts of fighting that just do not do enough damage even if successful, and can get your carrier fleet creamed. Not to say I don't appreciate the defense you have set up here. You are looking pretty good in the South Pacific.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 11/13/2014 1:45:45 PM >

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:06:12 PM

kkoovvoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Western OZ....

How do you spot distant enemy units outside base?

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:31:41 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh, and finally the supplies are rising again. After I stopped the air-expansion program, now I am saving 5000 supplies every day...still way low (6.650M), but at least they are rising

What do you mean by stopping the air expansion program ? Do you mean your research on some models ? Many ? Disregarding the whole Sian issue and its consequences, 1 year into the game with PDU off, what would you do differently regarding you airforce (research, use, etc)?

I would invest much much less in the RnD program of the A6M and the KI-43 line and possibly use much less bombers in China (even if those bombers may be less usefull if the Chinese campaign had gone better with an early conquest of Sian).
Also the supply invested to get the engine bonus has been massive... I wouldn't do that again. There are simply too few sentais that can get the benefits of a steamlined model-line that the outcome in terms of cost/benefits is always negative

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Post #: 1033

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:37:20 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

IMO, you have about three more months to dig in before I would expect serious amphib ops. The Allies can convert those APs to APAs in 2/43 and then get them headed to front lines.

Once I took Horn Island (lots of BB TFs running in from Portland Roads for weeks), the base made a good platform to take Merauke. Merauke is too isolated to take on the Allied Navy and the hordes of B-24s that come that way. Obvert will have to learn "The Art of Amphibious Attacks" like all Allied players have done and most Japanese players never have to. We both know that the skill can be costly in the beginning.

Clearly he can get to Horn and the Mereuake. I know. but it would take time and time is what I need. Also Mereuake can defend Horn Island pretty well (using SAGs and planes). Can be a tricky route to take, especially if you need constant bombings for months, thus exposing your BBs to ambushes (the KB is still active).

However I don't have many choices, do I? I need to set up my defences and I'm trying not to make the same mistakes I made with QBall

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Post #: 1034

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:38:59 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

SOPAC

I favor the NG route over the Central Pacific at this stage. Allied carriers just cannot go head to head with Japanese carriers until mid to late 43. There is less risk on this route plus invading atolls is much more dangerous. The idea is to fight the Japanese as much as possible but at points of lower risk. I don't think you really need to worry about taking at lot of ground. The key is to stick a foot into the Japanese door and start a fight. With India, China and a third active theater grinding away you should be defeating Japan on a economic scale. The in late 43 you can really start to grab territory and look for a big carrier fight. The long term Allied plan should be to exhaust Japan, then the military situation just opens up. NG is a fine place to start grinding. The Central Pacific has quick bursts of fighting that just do not do enough damage even if successful, and can get your carrier fleet creamed. Not to say I don't appreciate the defense you have set up here. You are looking pretty good in the South Pacific.

Exactly. I agree about the NG route, that's why I'm trying to create a serious disincentive in taking that route. Don't know if Erik would oblige, but I have to try to do something smarter than simply trying to defend everything (thus not defending anything)

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Post #: 1035

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:50:41 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kkoovvoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Western OZ....

How do you spot distant enemy units outside base?

uhm? You simply have to put your recon planes at max range on random targets and they will start spotting them as soon as they arrive in range (14 hexes in this case, being Dinah IIs)

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 1:56:53 PM

kkoovvoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
uhm? You simply have to put your recon planes at max range on random targets and they will start spotting them as soon as they arrive in range (14 hexes in this case, being Dinah IIs)

Thanks, i had no clue.

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 3:13:15 PM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I would invest much much less in the RnD program of the A6M and the KI-43 line and possibly use much less bombers in China (even if those bombers may be less usefull if the Chinese campaign had gone better with an early conquest of Sian).
Also the supply invested to get the engine bonus has been massive... I wouldn't do that again. There are simply too few sentais that can get the benefits of a steamlined model-line that the outcome in terms of cost/benefits is always negative

How much supply do you think you could have saved and how much delay you would have had in terms of arrival of your main aircrafts ? I am quite curious of the impact in a PDU off game.

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 4:04:03 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kkoovvoo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
uhm? You simply have to put your recon planes at max range on random targets and they will start spotting them as soon as they arrive in range (14 hexes in this case, being Dinah IIs)

Thanks, i had no clue.

Without setting a target for your RECON mission you leave it up to the tactical AI to choose its own target.

The "magic" is in the ability of the tactical AI to know which random hex has something in it to target for recon.

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 4:11:41 PM

crsutton

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Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this..

Ok, now I do...

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 5:24:10 PM

pontiouspilot

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Happy hans....thanks, it was all news to me too....i guess it means I leave the bulk of recon on auto pilot

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 5:52:17 PM

Sangeli

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If you really want the Allies to take the Solomon route you need to reinforce Milne bay and other bases in that area. The Allies already has a base in the island chain east of NG and it shouldn't be too hard for them to occupy the undefended Woodlark Island. And I'm not sure how well that fortified zone on the western part of New Britain and the Lae area on NG will deter or slow down the Allies from moving through there. I think priority needs to be containing the Allies in their small holdings in the Solomon Sea to prevent the masses of Allied LBA from dominating the area. And if it's too late for that then you should work to establish depth behind Lae so you have bases out of range of LBA when the Allies advance.

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 6:24:47 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this.. Ok, now I do...

Guys, the same is true for any kind of air mission. Don't set a target and the tactical AI chooses it for you.

This has always been the default for NAV bombing as the player has never been able to choose NAV bombing targets, but it works just the same for ground bombing missions.

Leaving the choice of any random in range target for ground bombing up to the tactical AI probably isn't the wisest choice a player could make though.

This is very evident when playing the AI. It forever recons bypassed bases in never captures such as the base buried in the middle of Borneo. The AI recons that base every turn for the entire game.
Likely because the AI is very poor at moving air assets forward and whatever recon squadron it is using spends the rest of the war at a locale where the only Allied base in range for it to randomly choose is the base in the middle of Borneo.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/13/2014 7:28:09 PM >

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 7:06:14 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this.. Ok, now I do...

Same here, basically. Learn something every day!

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 9:06:54 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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Interesting strategy Greyjoy on trying to force the Allies away from the New Guinea coast and towards the Central Pacific. That's also a bet on the Japanese Navy remaining strong too. In my PBEM game my Allied opponent is muscling into the Marianas as of early 1944 and though its proving almost a pyrrhic victory for him, I no longer have much of a fleet to contest the landings. He's lost a lot of carriers, Marines and BB's to my land based air force, but my army is all but abandoned to its fate without naval support. A Central Pacific offensive also puts the Allies within bomber range of mainland Japan sooner, though perhaps at the expense of the DEI continuing to supply oil/fuel to the Empire a while longer. The question is, Japanese defenses being equal, which is preferable to the Allied player and most harmful to the Japanese?

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Post #: 1045

RE: Indian fightings - 11/13/2014 9:19:27 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Crap! I have been playing this game forever and did not know this.. Ok, now I do...

Guys, the same is true for any kind of air mission. Don't set a target and the tactical AI chooses it for you.

This has always been the default for NAV bombing as the player has never been able to choose NAV bombing targets, but it works just the same for ground bombing missions.

Leaving the choice of any random in range target for ground bombing up to the tactical AI probably isn't the wisest choice a player could make though.

This is very evident when playing the AI. It forever recons bypassed bases in never captures such as the base buried in the middle of Borneo. The AI recons that base every turn for the entire game.
Likely because the AI is very poor at moving air assets forward and whatever recon squadron it is using spends the rest of the war at a locale where the only Allied base in range for it to randomly choose is the base in the middle of Borneo.

Yes, but I did not know it worked that way with recon and units moving around out of bases. I always assumed it was the air superiority calibration that determined when random units would show up..

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RE: Indian fightings - 11/14/2014 5:31:56 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

If you really want the Allies to take the Solomon route you need to reinforce Milne bay and other bases in that area. The Allies already has a base in the island chain east of NG and it shouldn't be too hard for them to occupy the undefended Woodlark Island. And I'm not sure how well that fortified zone on the western part of New Britain and the Lae area on NG will deter or slow down the Allies from moving through there. I think priority needs to be containing the Allies in their small holdings in the Solomon Sea to prevent the masses of Allied LBA from dominating the area. And if it's too late for that then you should work to establish depth behind Lae so you have bases out of range of LBA when the Allies advance.

Hi Sangeli,

no, Milne Bay, Woodlark etc are too exposed and it's already too late for reinforcing them. The Solomons/NG are a PITA for Japan.Too many islands/bases to garrison and develop...the risk is to invest too much there....not worth it, imho. I know i cannot stop him. my only goal here is to slow him down as much as possible, without seeing too many good units cut off when he finally breaks into my lines....and it's not easy to do!
I've chosen Finshtafen-Umboi-Saidor because it's a bottleneck and those bases are needed if he wants to move north with his fleet. He can't simply bypass them if he wants to use the NG coastal route...and are close enough to Rabaul to be supported by the LBA and by the Navy operating on the northern coast of New Britain.
And yes, the whole strategy is built up to buy time to build and fortify the next line (Sarmi-Biak-Truk-Ponape). Sami Biak is a strong position imho. I haven't developed Hollandia-Wewak area on pourpose, so he will have to build them all...but before he needs to move through Umboi Island... my hope is that this will require some time.

I am not saying this is the best possible strategy...but considering how much i am already involved in other theatres...this seems to be the best one to maximise the effects minimizing the investments...

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Post #: 1047

RE: Indian fightings - 11/14/2014 5:35:40 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Interesting strategy Greyjoy on trying to force the Allies away from the New Guinea coast and towards the Central Pacific. That's also a bet on the Japanese Navy remaining strong too. In my PBEM game my Allied opponent is muscling into the Marianas as of early 1944 and though its proving almost a pyrrhic victory for him, I no longer have much of a fleet to contest the landings. He's lost a lot of carriers, Marines and BB's to my land based air force, but my army is all but abandoned to its fate without naval support. A Central Pacific offensive also puts the Allies within bomber range of mainland Japan sooner, though perhaps at the expense of the DEI continuing to supply oil/fuel to the Empire a while longer. The question is, Japanese defenses being equal, which is preferable to the Allied player and most harmful to the Japanese?

Really hard to answer...don't know.
One thing i know is that Japan needs to force the allies to go into those geographical areas where there are the less number of dot/bases... I remember how bad was for me against Brad when he decided to take the southern DEI route...it was impossible to defend all those dot bases...while in the Mariannas...well...there are just a few bases...and they can be all well garrisoned.
Hope it makes sense...this morning my ability to write in english seems to have gone away with Morpheus

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Post #: 1048

RE: Indian fightings - 11/14/2014 5:38:31 AM

GreyJoy

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And now a strategic question for the audience:

What should i do in Western Oz?
I may easily send 4 Divisions to Kalgoorite/Esperance in order to stop that little (20,000 men) army advancing on the road on foot... but should i? In 4 days we'll be in 1943... should i keep on investing in western Oz in 1943?
I am tempted...but i know that, from now on, the allies gets stronger and stronger every day... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... any ideas?

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Post #: 1049

RE: Indian fightings - 11/14/2014 5:47:28 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I would invest much much less in the RnD program of the A6M and the KI-43 line and possibly use much less bombers in China (even if those bombers may be less usefull if the Chinese campaign had gone better with an early conquest of Sian).
Also the supply invested to get the engine bonus has been massive... I wouldn't do that again. There are simply too few sentais that can get the benefits of a steamlined model-line that the outcome in terms of cost/benefits is always negative

How much supply do you think you could have saved and how much delay you would have had in terms of arrival of your main aircrafts ? I am quite curious of the impact in a PDU off game.

Hard to say, and math isn't exactly my field...but i think at least 1,000,000 supplies...at least!

Also difficult to say how much delay it would have caused... let's say 12 months for the main lines...so A6M5b in late 1943 and KI-43 IIb just now.... probably if i had to fight the battles fought at Patna in October with the KI-43 Ic and IIa i may have lost them easily...but i don't have any counter-proof for that.
Probably the worst mistake was the A6M line. After the A6M5 the next models are not that better (while the Oscar line keeps on getting better)...and against QBall (PDU ON, mind you) i had no problem using the A6M5 even in mid 1944 (in that game i decided to stop the RnD of the Zeke right when i reached the A6M5)... the armour is important but not that much when it comes to CV-CV fight.

Now i got the KI-43 IIIa...let's see how it performs

(in reply to veji1)

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