Attacks using Laser or GPS

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Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 7:16:49 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

Hi gang,

I am probably not seeing this somewhere, so if someone could direct me to this I would sincerely appreciate it.

I am flying my attack planes along, armed with GBUs. The target comes into range, ad I fire away. Case closed. But, wait? Am I firing using GPS or am I using laser? Does the game ever give you the option? If so, where and how is it listed? I've seen others here talk about it. But, I haven't seen it. Can someone help me?

Thanks,

Doug

Post #: 1

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 7:38:49 PM

Veracity

Posts: 36
Joined: 11/13/2013
Status: offline

Hi Doug

If you see an LGB designation for the munition then it's laser guided and you typically must illuminate your target with the laser of the firing platform or another friendly unit until the weapon impacts. If you want to use Laser Guided Bombs, you'll want to arm your airplanes with a "Paveway" munition.

If you're looking for fire and forget GPS guided weapons, you'll want to arm munitions without the LGB designation such as JDAM, JSOW, and the Small Diameter Bomb. Each of those weapons have sub variants as well designed for different target sets.

Hope that helped.

Cheers,
Paul

< Message edited by Veracity -- 11/13/2014 8:43:11 PM >

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 2

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 8:07:58 PM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

Paul,

The weapon that I am firing is the GBU-28C. It is listed as having both LGB/GPS. My question is, how do I know which it is using? Is the laser more accurate than GPS? Or, vice versa? Or, are they the same? I've never been asked to paint, or continue painting, my targets, so does that mean that I have probably been using GPS? And, if so, is there anything, defensively, that I can do to degrade the success of those weapons? Are there GPS jammers? Is there smoke (fog maybe?) that could disrupt the laser?

Thanks

Doug

(in reply to Veracity)

Post #: 3

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 11:13:27 PM

Veracity

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Joined: 11/13/2013
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The GBU-28C is a GPS weapon with optional laser guidance for aimpoint refinement. It's a very short range weapon so if your aircraft are not lasing automatically then I think the engine is just treating it as a GPS only munition. You'll see a red beam to the target when aircraft are actively lasing. With regards to GPS jamming, I know there's a generic mobile jammer in the DB but I haven't played with it so I'm not sure what's capable of.

Cheers,
Paul

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 4

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 11:14:48 PM

mikmykWS

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Joined: 3/22/2005
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Laser should illuminate if laser is being used. You can tell that by looking in the sensor dialog as well turning the illumination graphics on.

In terms of detail we haven't gotten to players being able to manually switch modes yet and probably won't for some time. I guess manually turning the illumination off could work but not sure how well.

Decoys, chaff clouds, gps jamming and some of the off center stuff will come as we get to it.

Thanks

Mike

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(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 5

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/13/2014 11:28:22 PM

StellarRat

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Joined: 9/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Laser should illuminate if laser is being used. You can tell that by looking in the sensor dialog as well turning the illumination graphics on.

In terms of detail we haven't gotten to players being able to manually switch modes yet and probably won't for some time. I guess manually turning the illumination off could work but not sure how well.

Decoys, chaff clouds, gps jamming and some of the off center stuff will come as we get to it.

Thanks

Mike

I wonder if that is a needed feature. It seems like the pilot(s) would always lase when possible because it's more accurate (and un-jammable?) otherwise the GPS would be used. Either way, it seems like the software ought to pick the most accurate guidance for the circumstances that I imagine could even change while the bomb is on it's way down.

< Message edited by StellarRat -- 11/14/2014 12:31:37 AM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 6

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/14/2014 1:40:52 AM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
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From: Miami, Florida
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Thanks, Mike, for the update.

Doug

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 7

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/14/2014 1:46:41 AM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

It is my understanding that smoke can be used to essentially jam lasers. If the laser can't see through the smoke, it won't work. This, of course, can cause the longer shooting laser-guided missiles to be fired from the (usually) much less reliable GPS-guidance, instead of the laser system.. I say much less because there are plenty of GPS jammers out there. In fact, you can probably make one at home <lol> if you wanted to. It is reportedly very simple and cheap to do. GPS jammers can definitely cause problems for attackers. Add smoke to ruin the laser-guided weapons, and you can have a problem with many precision-guided weapons, big time.

Doug

< Message edited by DWReese -- 11/14/2014 2:48:56 AM >

(in reply to StellarRat)

Post #: 8

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/14/2014 2:42:48 AM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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If it was that effective and easy there would have been no hits in anywhere in the last few years. Smoke has been used since WW1 but is impacted by the environment which is a pretty big issue in terms of reliability. We'll think about it though!

We'll look at implementing some of these one off things in the future but for now must focus on our plan and generally following the consensus we're getting from players.

Mike

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Post #: 9

RE: Attacks using Laser or GPS - 11/14/2014 8:13:25 PM

Klahn

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Joined: 5/8/2007
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GPS guided munitions only use the GPS signal to update an inertial navigation unit which is controlling the weapon. Jamming the GPS will increase the CEP, but the actual amount varies depending on the flight time of the weapon. The INU is still capable of steering the weapon to the programmed coordinates.

Everything is a tradeoff. Popping smoke will block lasers, but announce your position visually and may make you an easier target for EO or IR munitions. Also, smoke can't be usefully generated all the time. You need to detect that you are being lased first.

Jamming GPS can be done, but since GPS guidance can't be detected by the target you need to leave the jammer on basically all the time. There are weapons that can home on GPS jamming transmitters.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 10