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How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise?

 
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How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 4:39:30 AM   
sufa101loofa


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Status: offline 		I was wondering what steps would it take to "surprise" a Jap CV task force in late May 1942?

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 4:51:39 AM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		The most important factor is luck.

Bill

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 1:32:31 PM   
John B.


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From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Luck certainly helps. But, you can increase your odds by doing all you can to shield your CVs from his search aircraft. When you're moving CVs stay far away from his land bases. And, remember that some of his subs have search aircraft so stay away from obvious ports. he won't know where you are (and only a few places where you aren't). In the meantime, you know he's coming at you so you can move your carriers in that direction be it Darwin, Fiji, Midway or where ever you want to try to spring the surprise. At the same time, your own search aircraft should be able to keep the KBs in your sights. The information advantage you can get does not always work, but it does increase the odds. And, since the IJN needs to split up carriers to support as many invasions as possible, you might be able to overwhelm one of his carrier task forces.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/14/2014 12:22:49 AM   
Coach Zuck

 

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Status: offline 		Luck, sheer unadulterated luck!

In my current game vs Floyd of Tracker fame, in Feb of 42 I knew there was a high chance of a carrier battle as I had spotted him and he had not spotted my carriers.... he got the best of a carrier exchange in late Feb 42 - oh by the way he's the Allied Player! The Soryu & Hiryu (in a separate TF) slowed up to refuel thier Destroyes and choose not to launch any bombers @ range 7. (C'mon Yamaguchi!)

Oh he lost 1 carrier with one badly damaged (if not sunk) and another with a few scratches, while I lost two carriers.

< Message edited by Coach Zuck -- 12/14/2014 1:24:03 AM >

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 4:38:29 AM   
1EyedJacks


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Status: offline 		Broadcast in the clear that the base closest to where you want to spring your trap is having problems with its water purification system... :-)


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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 10:10:26 AM   
Itdepends

 

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 3:05:48 PM   
Amoral

 

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Status: offline 		Getting surprise requires the Japanese player to do things wrong more than it requires you to do things right. This isn't really a factor under your control.

I guess "Pick an inexperienced or lazy opponent" could be put on your checklist.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 3:08:28 PM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		Weather seems to be a common variable that may result in one-sided exchanges. Granted, that's 'luck' (or selective settings in game options), but it's more specific than general 'luck'. Many examples of one side's fleet being mauled by an opponent that successfully hides in a squall.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/16/2015 9:13:01 PM   
niceguy2005


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Status: offline 		I agree with weather. I agree it depends a bit on the player. You also need a really tempting target. One that is so tempting the Japanese player will stick his neck out for it.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 2:44:18 AM   
leehunt27@bloomberg.net


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Status: offline 		I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target, and then having your allied CV's sweep later in the day you might get a chance at a surprise strike with little counter attack. Weather does play a critical role. My opponent surprised my KB, damaged or sunk most of it, and his CV task force hid in a squall and survived virtually unscathed. Fortunately that was late 1943 at least...

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 4:49:51 PM   
Lecivius


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Status: offline 		I'm going to go with luck. Planning helps, recon is a must, but luck is primary. I've played this since WitP, lord knows how many games, I have only had 1 instance where I actually bushwhacked KB. Usually it's the other way around And even my one time cost me an entire convoy of troops & supplies to reinforce Noumea.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 5:15:22 PM   
AW1Steve


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Status: offline 		I have done it only once against a real player...in WITP Vanilla. I was a rookie playing against a VERY experienced player , and I think to some degree he badly underestimated me. It was near Noumeau , early in 1942 (I seem to recall May). I had all five CV's there , a lot of LBA , especially PBY's and CV capable aircraft (this was important). Weather was perfect over him , spotty over me , and he had no LBA support. His KB came too close and I got off a perfect "Alpha Strike" , with everyone flying , attacking , and making lots of hits. His CAP devasted my CV air groups , which went ashore , and the USMC CV types came in and mauled what was left. My old PH BB's were docked nearby , and while my CV's refueled and re-armed at a nearby island (where I had stashed my AE's and AO's), my surface ships hunted down and killed survivors. That was the luckiest action I've ever had , and never again had anything approaching it for success. The KB and all escorts , as well as an invasion group behind it were totally and absolutely annihilated, and I had three CV's damaged (which thanks to having AR's nearby , all were saved). We called the game at that point. I'll never see that again.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 5:21:58 PM   
Mundy


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Status: offline 		Same here.  Mine was near Ndini, while I had a major landing there.  KB's planes got distracted by all the pretty transports.

I lost one carrier and KB got wiped out  -- completely.

I did lose another CV to a single sub launched torpedo the next day.    I think a midget struck a third around that time in harbor, too.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/11/2015 3:41:51 PM   
Crackaces


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Status: offline 		One thing that happened at Midway that the game just does not allow to happen ...The bungling of deciding on armament
So If I set Naval Attack with a secondary mission of ground attack .. I know of no penalty to do so? So if targets
appear that is the mission otherwise without penalty the ground attack happens

The advanced weather option turns earth into the planet Hoth (star wars fame) so it is more likely the float planes
will be grounded. A good number of players will put planes on recon from the attack groups that negate this feature.

More abstractly .. lots of transports and other targets might soak off IJ platforms so the USN might survive for more
than one strike ... however, this might also bring about a whole controversy about being gamey .. a player Canoerebel
once put some AKL's in front of his TF's and that brought on opinions ..

In short WitpAE is not a simulation and players that think this are at a disadvantage to those that understand game
mechanics .. Trying for a Midway surprise will likely end in disaster .. a la Cuttlefish who really was not looking for trouble ..



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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/12/2015 1:50:18 AM   
walkerd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target


I am going with this. You know there are no enemy carriers around, expecting limited land based aircraft you set your strike aircraft to Airfield Attack as the Primary Mission.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/12/2015 11:04:43 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: walkerd


quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target


I am going with this. You know there are no enemy carriers around, expecting limited land based aircraft you set your strike aircraft to Airfield Attack as the Primary Mission.


Agreed. This is what the IJN did at Midway.

In game terms MOST players would play it safe and set NAV as primary and wait until afternoon to strike the base.

The IJN struck Midway in the morning, which in game terms means it was the primary attack with NO NAV attack setting.

I also tend to agree with Alfred.

One needs find an opponent who either doesn't know enough to set NAV as primary with Airfield as secondary or one who is so brash he throws caution to the wind.

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/14/2015 11:24:55 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sufaloofa
I was wondering what steps would it take to "surprise" a Jap CV task force in late May 1942?


The exact same as at Midway, catching your opponent when he does not expect your carriers to appear, and a significant number of his planes is devoted to other missions than Naval Strike/CAP. I accomplished this in PBEMs twice so far, and was on the receiving end once, in all three cases the surprised carrier force was soundly crushed. Important tips to accomplish this include measuring the range of the enemy's air search and keeping your carriers beyond it until the final rush, and running your carrier groups in a stealth mode, without naval search or ASW patrols from the decks, so that your opponent won't deduce their presence from sudden detection and attacks on his patrolling subs.

< Message edited by FatR -- 3/14/2015 12:27:16 PM >

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/14/2015 1:52:50 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Hey Stanislav!

I've done it twice. Once to the Southern Paddler by hitting and sinking two US CVs from extreme range and once against Adm Nelson in the IO. Lost Hiryu and sank 4 American CVs. It ROCKED!

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RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/15/2015 3:31:09 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

so it is more likely the float planes
will be grounded. A good number of players will put planes on recon from the attack groups that negate this feature.


So for me at least I get the message 'strike mission cancelled due to weather' for the float planes (if its float planes you're referring to here).



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