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RE: 1943! - 12/11/2014 5:09:06 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli
Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.

You seem to imply that Madras is going to fall soon. Based on what you see in terms of composition of the opposing forces, do you think 6 forts aren't enough at this point?

No, that's not what I'm implying. What I'm trying to say is that Obvert is going to take Madras before he moves into eastern India regardless of how long it takes. Why else would he devote nearly 6,000 AV in a siege away from the main front lines? If I had to guess, I'd say Madras lasts until early summer 1943 which I don't consider "soon". Eventually Allied firepower will be too much but even then it will take a heavy toll on the attackers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree, but yet i do not have unlimited forces. I can't advance towards Kunming and Sian at the same time while i keep Chungking bottled up.
Need to make a choice.

Sian should be doable. There are less than 100,000 troopers there now, even if forts could be very high by now.
To get there, however, i need to shift completely the front, which takes quite a lot of time.
Probably Kunming is a better option at this point of the war...

mmmm....

We'll see. For the moment i am moving down from the plains one more Tank Division, substituted by 2 regular Inf divisions.
I will try to use mainly tanks on the Mountain Hexes that approaches Kunming, so to maximise the firepower in those very tiny SL hexes 20,000/25,000 at max

In my mind this is a very easy choice: you go for Kunming for sure. No matter what, you need to clear out the Kunming pocket before the Allies reach Burma. Leaving it alone means you are taking a risk in case the Allies take Burma with some surprise attack. If those Chinese forces there somehow escape, they will be able to withdraw and rebuild to help fill the manpower shortage the Allies have in the India theatre. Let's not forget that even though China is nearly destroyed, their squad production is unchanged and those Chinese corps can become behemoths. Moreover, an advance through the mountains here puts your units in position to reinforce Burma immediately after the operation is over without having to board ships. And based off the current state of things they will probably become available in Burma just as you really need them to be. On the other hand, Sian is very isolated and there isn't too much issue leaving it alone for a while. If you did take it it would be a number of months before those units could redeploy somewhere else to be useful.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1171

RE: 1943! - 12/11/2014 7:39:40 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, I find fault with Obvert going for a massive siege in Madras. He knows you have one tank division bottled up there and with his superior mobile units should be driving down the open ground between Deli and Calcutta. It is a total waste to use these great units in siege fighting. No Japanese unit at this stage can fight them in open ground. In 1944 the Allies can engage in slugging matches but in early 43 they need to capitalize on their mobility.

Ya, I can't think of any good reason to do this. What harm would come to the Allies if Madras was simply isolated and left alone? Wouldn't take more than 1000 AV to keep Madras under control leaving 5000 AV available for other moves. It's going to take a while to take down Madras and given the fact it is only early 1943, those divisions will be reformed and may even make it back to Eastern India to fight again. Very possible Obvert will end up fighting some of these divisions twice in India.

Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.

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(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1172

RE: 1943! - 12/11/2014 8:30:09 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.

Agreed but it depends on the cost of destroying those divisions. At Madras I expect the cost to be very high in both time spent and destroyed squads as the Japanese have good supply and even naval superiority. At this point there probably isn't a more costly place for the Allies to attack than Madras. Not to mention under the current circumstances it may be possible for Japan to evacuate some of those units before they are destroyed which would really make it a waste for the Allies.

EDIT: More costly place for a land attack. Amphibious invasions are a different story.

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 12/11/2014 9:30:54 PM >

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 1173

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 5:47:04 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well, it is always good to destroy Japanese divisions. Rebuilding them cost scant resources and they never come back with the experience that they once had. Frankly it is only the high experience of Japanese troops that give them a chance vs 1943 TO&E Allied units.

Agreed but it depends on the cost of destroying those divisions. At Madras I expect the cost to be very high in both time spent and destroyed squads as the Japanese have good supply and even naval superiority. At this point there probably isn't a more costly place for the Allies to attack than Madras. Not to mention under the current circumstances it may be possible for Japan to evacuate some of those units before they are destroyed which would really make it a waste for the Allies.

EDIT: More costly place for a land attack. Amphibious invasions are a different story.

I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.

Now more 45,000 supplies are unloading at Madras. The arrival of the KI-44c and the A6M5c could help me contest the air throughout mid 1943. Obviously, if i will have teh chance, i will abbandon Madras by the summer of 1943...but considering that i was already falling back from my advanced positions in India by October 1942, i consider the last 5/6 months a tactical and strategical victory my still being in India strong

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1174

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:00:19 AM

GreyJoy

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Feb 22, 43

If i needed a confirm of where the allied CVs are, now i may have it.
Many TFs are spotted near Portland (Southern Oz), advancing westwards. My subs were unlucky today... but that's ok, i got some intel anyway.
Movements are spotted also near Nauru Is. Naval bombings and lots of LSTs moving west... another amphib landing?

The allied cruisers arrive at Buin, finding my brave DDs and my mines

. Tanaka was arriving with 2BBs and 4CAs just few hours later...but the allies had already fallen back...pity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Nauru Island at 128,130

Japanese Ships
SS RO-60

Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA San Francisco
DD Shaw
DD Strong
DD Tucker
DD Cassin

SS RO-60 launches 2 torpedoes at CA Chicago
RO-60 diving deep ....
DD Tucker fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Buin at 109,131, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tamanami
DD Oboro
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki
DD Okikaze
DD Uruyuke, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Nashville, Shell hits 1
CL Columbia
DD Benham, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Ellet
DD Sterett
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
DD Lang, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 177 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)

Allied Ships
CL Columbia, Mine hits 1
DD Lang, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 205 encounters mine field at Buin (109,131)

Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne, Mine hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Portland at 75,168

Japanese Ships
SS I-162

Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City
CA Northampton
DD Worden

SS I-162 launches 4 torpedoes at CA Salt Lake City
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden attacking submerged sub ....
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Worden fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nauru Island at 127,128 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

9 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CA Wichita
CA San Francisco
CA Chicago
DD Tucker
DD Cassin
DD Downes
DD Shaw
DD Strong

Japanese ground losses:
630 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Resources hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4
Port hits 1

These are the forces north of Changsha...nothing to really worry about...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 81,51 (near Changsha)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7130 troops, 200 guns, 647 vehicles, Assault Value = 1203

Defending force 21186 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 280

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Division
116th Division
39th Division
60th Division
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Army
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment

Defending units:
26th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
79th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
6th War Area
30th Group Army

On the road towards Kunming... mountain hex...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 72,47 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7673 troops, 135 guns, 79 vehicles, Assault Value = 541

Defending force 16777 troops, 102 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 345

Japanese adjusted assault: 187

Allied adjusted defense: 451

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
207 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
346 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Guards Tank Division
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
35th Group Army

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Panggoe (111,133)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3781 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 125

Defending force 734 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 29

Allied adjusted assault: 49

Japanese adjusted defense: 7

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Panggoe !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
393 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
Fiji Bde /10
24th US Naval Construction Battalion

Defending units:
4th Raiding Regiment
46th Nav Gd /7

Pangoe is lost too... but that was foreseen.

In China i am following Veji's and Sangeli's suggestion and am planning the advance towards Kunming.
The plan is to push the allied units westwards, using the SLs against them. Kunming must be well supplied and fortfied by now, and my onlu hope to conquer it is to force him to overstack.That's what i will try to do.
As soon as Changsha will be liberated, lots of units will be free to roam westwards and i may even be able to extract a couple of crack divisions (16th for example) from China.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1175

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 2:14:59 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.

One note on destroyed and rebuilt divisions.....the units that Greyjoy chose for Madras are generally not the cream of the IJA. The 41st, and those 2 Guards divisions are mid-50s experience units that, when re-built, will look pretty much the same. If you are going to get guys killed, it's a good idea to make it the 50-experience guys, because replacements will be at the same level (after some training).

The only elite division there is the 38th

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Post #: 1176

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 2:58:38 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I agree. That's why i chose to stay at Madras. It can be a trap, i know, but there is a chance to fix 250,000 allied army there. There's even a USMC division (3rd marines) there. As long as those units are there, they are not threatening Burma or the DEI.
Also, i have had such a bad experiences agaist Mr.Kane in these kind of sieges that i wanna try to do the same.

One note on destroyed and rebuilt divisions.....the units that Greyjoy chose for Madras are generally not the cream of the IJA. The 41st, and those 2 Guards divisions are mid-50s experience units that, when re-built, will look pretty much the same. If you are going to get guys killed, it's a good idea to make it the 50-experience guys, because replacements will be at the same level (after some training).

The only elite division there is the 38th

Excatly Brad. The 36th is already a re-built division. Was one of the two completely destroyed during the "Sian Debacle" (along with the 41st) and rebuilt almost from scratch.
The 38th is a Crack one, but I can efford to lose it, considering the experience my divisions in China are gaining lately.

Anyway, I am not really planning to sacrifice those IDs. If things will go really bad, I think I may be able to extract them using the KB in support. For the moment, however, they are staying there and building forts

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 1177

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 3:03:49 PM

GreyJoy

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Feb 23, 1943

The CL Kashii is torpedoed twice by an American sub while escorting the oilers back from Colombo to Singapore... sunk immediately...too bad

The KB escaped from the first allied subs-screen and is now moving back to the shadows between Singapore and Ceylon.

7 BIG TFs are spotted moving towards Esperance (SW OZ). CVs, BBs, CAs, DDs and several transports... the invasion is arriving

More naval bombings at Nauru island...

In China we destroyed a Chinese corp north of Changsha. Some 190 AVs managed to escape to the city, which is now completely isolated.

Another 1-2 on the road to Kunming. Need time and lots of patience there...

Nothing more to report. Supplies keep on rising at the great rate of 9/10K per turn!

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1178

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 3:20:12 PM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Anyway, I am not really planning to sacrifice those IDs. If things will go really bad, I think I may be able to extract them using the KB in support. For the moment, however, they are staying there and building forts

Even if you were to lose those, keeping him busy in India so that he only starts nibbling at Burma in very late 43 or early 44 is in itself worth a few divisions.

I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.

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Post #: 1179

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 5:58:54 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1
I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.

At first I was skeptical of the plan but I'm beginning to realize eastern India is more defendable than I originally thought. Patna really anchors the line and even though there are plains to the "east" of it (really more north IRL), the lack of bases there means any Allied flanking maneuver would be pummeled from Japanese bombers. And on the other end, Ceylon nicely protects the open naval flank to allow the Japanese to make Madras a tenable position. I don't actually see Madras as being important in this strategic defense but as I've said before its an ideal place to stand and fight the Allies if they choose to attack it which seems to be the case. And I think Obvert's tendency to concentrate his forces for large deliberate assaults rather than advancing on multiple axes to feel out weaknesses in Japanese defenses and then committing reserves at the weak point is playing right into Greyjoy's hand.

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 12/12/2014 7:00:16 PM >

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 1180

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:03:27 PM

Cribtop

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One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

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Post #: 1181

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:07:49 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

While that is true I also think that Greyjoy's oil situation is quite secure right now given his position. And since Sian is isolated, that oil is going to be produced and stockpiled. Even if Grejoy goes for Kunming first, he will be able to take Sian well before oil security will be an issue.

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 1182

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:46:32 PM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

While that is true I also think that Greyjoy's oil situation is quite secure right now given his position. And since Sian is isolated, that oil is going to be produced and stockpiled. Even if Grejoy goes for Kunming first, he will be able to take Sian well before oil security will be an issue.

I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1183

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:46:55 PM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 1184

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 6:53:45 PM

MrKane

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To evacuate Madras you do not need KB Nicola. Do you remember my evacuation of Kota Bhara in our game ? Just bring a lot of APs (you need pack units 1-2 days before), 2 - 3 group warships. Suppress allied by shore bombardment, load troops, last turn fly out your fighters and sail away at full speed.

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 1185

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 7:17:05 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane
I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

Well how much of that oil is actually used by the heavy industry? I guess I was under the impression that the oil in Sian and Lanchow is what supplies all of China so without the rest of China the majority of it would end up being stockpiled. I guess its just a question of how much HI is in the Sian pocket vs. the oil production.

EDIT: I should mention that I am far from an expert on the production aspect of this game so if I'm asking these questions its because I really just don't know these things (yet).

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 12/12/2014 8:18:52 PM >

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 1186

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 7:23:05 PM

MrKane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane
I think that oil in Sian goes to HI and make supplies helping rebuild Chinese Army. I do not think Obvert is stockpiling oil for GJ.

Well how much of that oil is actually used by the heavy industry? I guess I was under the impression that the oil in Sian and Lanchow is what supplies all of China so without the rest of China the majority of it would end up being stockpiled. I guess its just a question of how much HI is in the Sian pocket vs. the oil production.

EDIT: I should mention that I am far from an expert on the production aspect of this game so if I'm asking these questions its because I really just don't know these things (yet).

Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1187

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 7:30:40 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

But I don't think you can turn off oil production.

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 1188

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 7:43:40 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane
Sian HI == Oil so, not stockpiling. Lanchow can be just turn off not need for more oil.

But I don't think you can turn off oil production.

You can't. You can turn off refinery production, however....

I'm of the mind that, pretty soon here, that Oil's got nowhere to flow. Sian is independent, but Lanchow...

I would put units on the roads to keep that bottled up, but keep in mind that if it reaches its oil storage maximum you're losing out, kind of. Maybe keep the road open between Lanchow and Sian, as some would almost inevitably flow to Sian.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1189

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 8:36:20 PM

crsutton

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Neither place has significant oil storage so Japan is not going to get a windfall. By if you take them intact then you get some nice juice flowing until the Allies can reach them with B29s. Every drop is important.

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Post #: 1190

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 8:45:37 PM

MrKane

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Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 1191

RE: 1943! - 12/12/2014 8:54:11 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

Yea but both Kunming and Sian/Lanchow are strategic targets. It's more a question of valuing industry vs. preventing the Chinese infantry from escaping.

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 1192

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 6:50:49 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1
I really like the defensive set up in India. the offensive was disappointing, didn't yield the hoped for results in terms of ennemy losses and industry. But I find such a defensive setup Ceylon + Madras anchoring the Bengal bay and then the classic Assam defense very intriguing and I possibly very effective.

At first I was skeptical of the plan but I'm beginning to realize eastern India is more defendable than I originally thought. Patna really anchors the line and even though there are plains to the "east" of it (really more north IRL), the lack of bases there means any Allied flanking maneuver would be pummeled from Japanese bombers. And on the other end, Ceylon nicely protects the open naval flank to allow the Japanese to make Madras a tenable position. I don't actually see Madras as being important in this strategic defense but as I've said before its an ideal place to stand and fight the Allies if they choose to attack it which seems to be the case. And I think Obvert's tendency to concentrate his forces for large deliberate assaults rather than advancing on multiple axes to feel out weaknesses in Japanese defenses and then committing reserves at the weak point is playing right into Greyjoy's hand.

Actually Madras isn't necessary. Ceylon-Diego being thereal key. Initially the idea was to lure him into the plains east of Patna and let him penetrate till Ansalon, just for then trapping the whole enchilada with the landing of 6/8 divisions from China and cutting the supply path of the enemy army driving the tanks eastwards from Patna. But it didn't work.
Anyway it has worked in another way. Holding Diego and Ceylon forbidts the Allies the access to the Bay of Bengal and Burma is pretty much safe without the naval support. This situation won't last forever, i know. The key will be to jump out before he has the strenght to contest a real landing behind my lines even with the KB present

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1193

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 6:53:36 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One point on Sian. Don't forget that if you capture the Oil at Sian and Lanchow you will dramatically extend the viable economic life of Manchukuo and thus of Japan.

I know Crib...

Sian should be doable even in the end of 1943, while Lanchow i think it's a lost cause. Too many good terrain hexes where he has digged in for ages now...

We'll see.

Now the targets are these, in order of priority:

1- Conquer Changsha, thus freeing up 2 armies with 8 full divisions
2- Bottle Chungking
3- Advance towards Kunming
4- Conquer Sian

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 1194

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 6:56:36 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

To evacuate Madras you do not need KB Nicola. Do you remember my evacuation of Kota Bhara in our game ? Just bring a lot of APs (you need pack units 1-2 days before), 2 - 3 group warships. Suppress allied by shore bombardment, load troops, last turn fly out your fighters and sail away at full speed.

I perfectly remember what you did at Kotha Baru and that's what i was thinking about when i planned my Madras defence and exit strategy. However in that occasion you managed to defend the skies of Kotha Baru with a crackload of excellent fighters (Ki-94s, KI-84, KI-83s, N1K5 etc), while here i have to fight him with A6M5 and KI-43 IIIa and IIb... so there is the possibility that i may lose the control of the skies of Madras..in that case only with the presence of the KB i can hope to mass the transports to succesfully Dunkerque 4 Divisions in a single night...

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 1195

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 7:01:14 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Summarizing: In my opinion strategic target > tactical target.

Yea but both Kunming and Sian/Lanchow are strategic targets. It's more a question of valuing industry vs. preventing the Chinese infantry from escaping.

I tend to think a bit differently here.

I value the "position" targets more than the industrial target. It's way too easy to destroy industry, while it is much more difficult to crack a strong defensive position.

The Kunming-Paoshan-Tsuyun complex is a tough nut to crack and i see the value of it when the allies will be advancing in Burma. I prefer to have less oil and a more solid position that can keep the allied bombers as far away as possible (and as long as possible) from the DEI and the HI

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 1196

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 7:07:56 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Feb 23, 1943

Today i had a better vision of the allied fleet approaching Esperance: the whole enchilada is getting there!

The KB-1 stopped at Colombo in order to complete the upgrade process. Now the KB is composed like that: Fighters (50% A6M5 and 50% A6M5c), DBs (D4Y1), TB (B6N1). This composition will remain the same for the most part of 1943. The next step will be the upgrade step that will put the A6M8 online (somewhere around this summer i think).

We'll now move back out of his air search, hoping to stop Erik's advance at Exmouth.

In SW Oz we've left behind at Perth just enough forces to hold the base a some 400 planes along with 2 BBs, 4 CAs and 17 DDs... should be enough to discourage him from doing anything too bold.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1197

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 4:58:02 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

Posts: 533
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline

Learning so much from this AAR-- makes me want to start up another game as the Japanese soon! (but got enough on my plate currently). Its fascinating how many different strategies and decisions must be made in the course of each game. Its also quite fun to follow Obvert's AAR and see the whole picture :)

_____________________________

John 21:25

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1198

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 8:26:06 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

The Fuhrer is asking whether the Umboi Festung has been completed. Ferro-concrete U-boot pens, 8.8 kanone in quadruple mounts, steel pagodas, Type 95 "Tiger" tanks and cosy bunkers for the Japanese kameraden - the usual stuff of the Pacific Wall.

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)

Post #: 1199

RE: 1943! - 12/13/2014 8:45:28 PM

sanderz

Posts: 862
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

The Fuhrer is asking whether the Umboi Festung has been completed. Ferro-concrete U-boot pens, 8.8 kanone in quadruple mounts, steel pagodas, Type 95 "Tiger" tanks and cosy bunkers for the Japanese kameraden - the usual stuff of the Pacific Wall.

i am sure greyjoy is secretly working on all these secret jap weapons and will crush the yankee menace

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 1200

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RE: 1943!