Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game

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Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/1/2015 11:03:47 PM

hbrsvl

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Joined: 10/2/2002
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Hi- I asked this question a number of years ago, with no really useful answers. So, I'll ask it again at this later time.

Out there, in war-gaming land,is there a WITP and/or AE type game for the WW II ASW Battle of the Atlantic? Or, a game that includes choices in building ASW units, etc.? Any info gratefully accepted. Thanks, Hugh Browne

Post #: 1

RE: Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/3/2015 10:07:07 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline

Pretty sure the answer is that no such game exists. Frankly it might prove to be a supremely boring game or so unbelievably involved as to be no fun.

There are a number of problems with the situation. To make it fun the Axis Player ought to have some surface units/raiders - that calls for a very big map to allow them to hide. The U-boats too ranged all over the world (at least to Penang in Malaya - Doenitz didn't care a bit about where an Allied ship was sunk) so the map would either be very very large or the Allied Player could "more easily" hunt down the Axis units than IRL. The Med would seem to muck up the naval aspect of the game considerably too (somebody did do Mediterranean Mod to WitP but they turned the Italians into Japanese when IRL it was the Brits that did all the cool stuff). In fact the land aspect of the campaign would be very difficult to simulate effectively since the WitP game engine is ill suited to massive land campaigns.

A much more limited operational game of some decisive part of the campaign (say Nov 42 - May 43) might be more fun and easier to simulate with this game engine.

(in reply to hbrsvl)

Post #: 2

RE: Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/4/2015 2:30:14 AM

IdahoNYer

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Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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I would love to see a Battle of the Atlantic game - Had an old board game called "Raiders of the North Atlantic" and that was the closest anyone ever came.

WiTP system could work - air and a slightly modified naval (more emphasis on sub warfare) and NO land game necessary. Allied player would have supplies/troops build up in overseas locales with requirement to bring them to England/Murmansk etc - and hunt down Axis surface raiders. Axis player would have to interdict with subs, surface raiders and limited air.

Of course, I'd also love to see the old board game of "submarine" brought to the computer someday as well.

(in reply to spence)

Post #: 3

RE: Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/4/2015 3:49:24 AM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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I don't see how the Battle of Atlantic can be much interesting. It is convoys, submarines, patrol aircraft. It get repetitive soon after Bismark menace disappears.

Mediterranean is another story, but that implies something never achieved in wargames : air, land , naval, special forces, all well developed and not some as just some afterthought.
WITP is the most complete game in existence, but even it lacks in this case land combat/SOF.
And it has the big mistake that land units and aircraft units consume only supply, not fuel.

< Message edited by Dili -- 1/4/2015 4:53:06 AM >

(in reply to IdahoNYer)

Post #: 4

RE: Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/5/2015 2:57:14 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

There are a number of problems with the situation. To make it fun the Axis Player ought to have some surface units/raiders - that calls for a very big map to allow them to hide. The U-boats too ranged all over the world (at least to Penang in Malaya - Doenitz didn't care a bit about where an Allied ship was sunk) so the map would either be very very large or the Allied Player could "more easily" hunt down the Axis units than IRL. The Med would seem to muck up the naval aspect of the game considerably too (somebody did do Mediterranean Mod to WitP but they turned the Italians into Japanese when IRL it was the Brits that did all the cool stuff). In fact the land aspect of the campaign would be very difficult to simulate effectively since the WitP game engine is ill suited to massive land campaigns.

A much more limited operational game of some decisive part of the campaign (say Nov 42 - May 43) might be more fun and easier to simulate with this game engine.

Spence I think you are largely correct which is unfortunate (sorry), as similar observations may limit attempts to create such a game. However one saving grace for would be creators is the fact that the game would have to start in September 1939 and would have a number of key players that were not in play in 1942 (most notably the French, Norway, the low land states and to some extent Italy) as well as the "big one," the USA, which might have a variable intervention date that could be an interesting "what if" concept in the game. Also there was considerable change between 1939 weapons and systems to those of December 1941 let alone later in 1942. However, toward the latter part of the war, any game that focuses on the European theater would revert to (largely) a land game, which I feel is the weakest part of WITP (AE or basic) and thus a mirror image for a European WITP game would be the most difficult to reflect. There would also have to be some interaction with WITP even if only for withdrawal events much like WITP currently reflects the impact of the Atlantic and Med theaters.

I would like to see such a game, but I think the land game would have to be elevated to a degree of importance and creativity/interest that is not present in WITP and thus a "simple" transition would be problematic to say the least. Just some thoughts, Hal

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Post #: 5

RE: Atlantic ASW WITP/AE type game - 1/6/2015 7:44:05 AM

margeorg

Posts: 160
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline

Hmm,

the only game I remember (vagely) is the old Microprose "Destroyer Escort" game back from the 90s. I never heared of anything newer than that.

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Cheers
Martin

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 6