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INVADE? Need advice....

 
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INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 6:14:07 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		To invade or not to invade, that is the question.

Getting late in the year, progress through the toe is slow, what to do what to do.




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_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.
Post #: 1
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 6:22:39 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Weather Situation looks good for the moment.... but maybe will change in a couple of weeks. I don't think I can afford to invade in the mud




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 2
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 6:41:39 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Air Situation, I have supremacy for the moment, interdiction causing lots of problems for germans according to radio intercepts.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 3
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 6:49:42 PM   
whoofe

 

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline 		that's an ambitious landing spot, IMO

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 4
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:09:27 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		very ambitious, but I have air cover.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to whoofe)
Post #: 5
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:18:55 PM   
MisterBoats

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Bring a lot of beach chairs and blankets -- you may be seaside for a while. Why not go for the east coast?

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 6
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:19:49 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Situation in the Toe, 8th army pretty well bottled up




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 7
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:21:13 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterBoats

Bring a lot of beach chairs and blankets -- you may be seaside for a while. Why not go for the east coast?

Im out of time before the weather gets bad. Plus farther for my fighters to fly

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to MisterBoats)
Post #: 8
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:22:54 PM   
Tazak

 

Posts: 1452
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		you invasion units seem a little lite on support units?

can you redirect 'spoon' landings to the north of 'knife' which you will likely cut off Civitavecchia with ZOC, although personally I prefer the 2 landing spots north and south of Naples but it looks like that will land you in the middle of his next defensive line

< Message edited by Tazak -- 1/2/2015 8:25:30 PM >

_____________________________

AUCTO SPLENDORE RESURGO

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 9
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:31:31 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tazak

you invasion units seem a little lite on support units?

can you redirect 'spoon' landings to the north of 'knife' which you will likely cut off Civitavecchia with ZOC, although personally I prefer the 2 landing spots north and south of Naples but it looks like that will land you in the middle of his next defensive line

Yes they do. I found out hard way earlier in this game that attaching support units while prepping messes up your prep time.

If I redirect I think the weather will get bad on me before I can land but that would be a better spot you mention.

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Tazak)
Post #: 10
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:35:42 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Rail Situation around landing area




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 11
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:55:25 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		I think my airpower will give me a chance to hold on if there are a lot of tanks that come in




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 12
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 7:57:23 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline 		If you land at Rome use knife and fork, spoon to the reserves. Keep invasion together.

Looks like good size German force near Rome. Germans in toe may react in force at Rome. Race them from toe to Rome.

Secondary invasion site can still be contained along with your original Italy forces.




< Message edited by KWG -- 1/2/2015 9:01:50 PM >

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 13
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 8:10:29 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		Are you playing the AI? If you are, and depending on the setting you can probably do that and stay on the beaches. You'll have mud in two turns, and the axis get a crap load of reinforcements in Nov. and Dec. It's not so much his rail system you need worry about, it's his existing air forces. Against a human opponent, you'd be in trouble imho. The invasion around Crotone is already outflanked by all those bases around Taranto. Most importantly is Corsica. None of your air bases are expanded, and I'm betting the ports are still damaged (Sardinia looks good tho). So your air forces to cover two separate invasions down here is no where near sufficient to do this with out having to pull from Tac Air and 15th AF (or England). If you haven't destroyed axis planes on the ground, then your not ready. My two cents.

One more note: 3 invasion beaches is not enough for a successful landing, close to bad weather time, and into his air cover, even with naval control. You can be easily stuck on those beaches, being boxed in by by axis units until the weather breaks again in spring. He only has to maintain 10hexes to hem you in there, and one unit can be attacked from 4 hexes. It won't last long.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 14
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 8:19:45 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		This is PBEM vs AWG, Italy just surrendered so that's why the Corsican area is beat down.

That Crotone area looks way to dangerous to me, its only a brigade sized landing force with 4 brigades of para's. Not going to try there at all.
Also I have every single bomber other than the 4 engine in med doing work.

Sounds like consensus so far is to not invade 8)
Luftwaffe seems pretty well suppressed at the moment, but the may be just resting.

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 15
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 10:49:18 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		Your best option that I see at the moment is to retarget your amphibs, and land in the bay around Taranto, but build up your airfields before you go. By '44, your going to want those bases in southern Italy for 15th AF.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 16
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/2/2015 11:39:23 PM   
cmunson


Posts: 6238
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: Austin, Texas
Status: offline 		You've done a great job preparing for the invasion, especially with you interdiction levels at sea. I don't know, pretty risky to invade that far from your main line especially since he has you hermetically sealed on such a small front in the toe thus leaving a lot of Germans free to thwart you by Rome. If I were the German I would hem you in around Rome and pound you with bombers while still keeping you bottled up in the toe. You might retask spoon farther south (by Taranto?) and when he reacts to that hit fork and knife the next turn.

Let us know what you do.


_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 17
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 1:25:02 AM   
whoofe

 

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline 		^^

yeah that sounds good

BAM! fork in the eye!


(in reply to cmunson)
Post #: 18
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 2:46:33 AM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it turned out 8)




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to whoofe)
Post #: 19
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 3:07:13 AM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		GOOD LUCK!

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 20
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 9:10:00 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		The problem is the distance between 8th Army and your invasion. If you can't expand it, then what? Weather will go bad on you...
Good luck!

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 1/3/2015 10:11:18 AM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 21
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 2:01:37 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		There was talk in another thread about immersion...

The tension of trying to decide to invade or not made me feel like Ike before Normandy, pacing my command bunker, staring at my one page guides that I have laminated and hung up on my walls. Asking my 8 year old daughter if I should attack or not. Her response commenting on how pretty the colors were wasn't necessarily helpful to making a decision, but I appreciated that she was engaged in a conversation with me about a wargame instead of some minecraft thing on YouTube.

The sense of dread mounts as I wait for the first reports from the beaches . . . . .



_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 22
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 2:13:14 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		That landing north of Anzio looks really lonely... I set up my 3 div invasion as centred on your southern beach, with one 1 hx north and then one to the east of Anzio. Anzio fell without a fight and with a intact port (AI error there I feel), and Lido di Roma was evacuated when 2 Armd divs went east and west of Rome. The Axis pulled back 3 hexes to the hills north of Civitavecchia. I would have been very nervous vs a player though.

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 23
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 7:32:45 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Well I made it ashore and might have a couple hexes to move around. Rain is starting to pick up though . . .




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to HMSWarspite)
Post #: 24
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 8:50:45 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		Hit naval interdiction hard so you don't get isolated. Put more than one naval patrol box up over them and air superiority.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 25
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 10:10:20 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Really interesting, thanks for posting!

It does bring up an interesting question on where the best spots are in Italy for round 2 landings. After taking Sardinia and Corsica, not a ton of great options on the west coast of Italy. Landing on the heel is a spot with favorable terrain, nearby ports, and nice airbases, but problem is it's pretty far from aircover.



_____________________________


(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 26
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/3/2015 11:15:21 PM   
Jajusha


Posts: 249
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		Recepie: 30k Casualty Canadian cheese

INGREDIENTS:
2 Panzer divisions
4 PanzerGrenadier
1 SS Panzer Grenadier
2 Canadian divisions
1 isolated landingsite

Method:
On next turn, Lure the canadians 1 hex away of the landing sites, while 2 more divisions land
Turn 2: Pound the Canadians with a Medium-Heavy Attack from the Panzer and Panzergrenadiers, taking advantage of the flat terrain. Add ground support while the enemy fighters are busy looking at sea hexes and fishes. Defeated units will try to retreat to a hex that already has 2 units in it, automatically routing 1 of them. Pound the landing site next, and flavour the routs.
Set the Panzers aside and let it them rest for 7 days.

On a serious note now. The hilly Terrain at Salerno isn't there to be used only by Axis. It gives very defensible terrain once you move 1 hex from the landing site and great chances to block anything the Axis can throw at you in hilly terrain (4CV infantry...). In Rome however, you might be facing the full fury of Panzer and Panzergren divisions in flat terrain. From my experience, by October if no invasion forced their hand, they are normally rested at 15CV for the 2 PzDiv, 15 CV for the SS, and 10ish Cv each PzGren. That Canadian landing site would be ripe...

Anyway, goodluck!


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 27
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/4/2015 5:50:04 AM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		After watching my cardinals lose I figured I should try to hold on to my beaches.
My prediction is I am going to have a lot of guys visiting Ireland soon.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Jajusha)
Post #: 28
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/4/2015 12:23:58 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Start of the turn, I am still around. AWG is saying interdiction is causing him problems.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 29
RE: INVADE? Need advice.... - 1/4/2015 1:33:39 PM   
whoofe

 

Posts: 211
Joined: 1/21/2011
Status: offline 		did this relieve some of the pressure down the southern part of Italy?

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 30
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