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Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 1:44:03 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		So I invaded in an 8 hex row in picardy.

Landed 24 units total with paradrops

Now, I can only BARELY bring one division at a time from England.

It shows I have 163 troop ships and 2500 cargo ones. Why can I only load and transport ONE division a turn when the turn prior I loaded up 16 divisions and invaded with them?

It makes the invasion untenable if you cant reinforce more than one per turn

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."
Post #: 1
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 2:27:15 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		I believe it's because all the transport is being used by the invasion forces, with nothing left to ferry troops across. I'm was in the same predicament, you just have to try and tough it out. I stayed on the beaches, but it cost me time. If you have one TF that can cover two hexes, move the extra ones back to port. You'll get more transport.

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 2
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 2:40:56 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		But I am confused? None of the guys are ON the ships anymore...? Do the TFHQs take "troops ships" to maintain a beach? I have NO units at sea at all, and I am only able to haul one div from england.

I mean if that is how it works, ok. I just must not understand how the use of troop and cargo ships work

So what you are saying is that the TFHQs at sea or rather supporting a beach USE up the troop ships? I figured there was use of cargo ships to supply the beaches, but it didnt make sense that after the troops were landed why the troops ships were still being used. In one go I could haul almost 16 divisions for the invasion and then now I cannot even haul two?? Bizarre

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 3
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 3:29:48 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		The TF's are the HQ for all those ships, so those transports you want will be with the TF, not just running around the area. When you put the TF back into a friendly port, you get troop lift capacity back. All those troop transports are also ferrying supplies to the units it dropped off on the beach, so yes, they are still with the TF. I learned this the hard way. It takes a lot of supply to maintain just one division on the beach and the cargo ships can't run into the beaches like the troop transports can.

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Post #: 4
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 3:34:15 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Your ships only return to the general pool when the amphib HQ returns to port. You need to send back at least one amphib HQ immediately. Since an amphib HQ can maintain all beaches it is adjacent to, if you invaded in adjacent hexes you should be able to send one or two back immediately and then rotate them in for the others over time. The disadvantage of such a large invasion is the shipping shortages for the follow up. It sounds like a huge invasion.

BTW, at one time in development the transport ship cost of units landing was double the normal cost. Somewhere this was removed, and we only noticed it very late in development. By that point we were afraid of changing back to the original system as we didn't have time to test out a change, especially its impact on the AI. It's too bad because having that doubling cost would have prevented some of the very large and unhistorical invasions that we're seeing players able to pull off.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 5
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 3:41:00 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		From what I see, the more you put onto the beaches, the longer it's going to take to build up enough supply to break out. I landed an invasion in Brittany and near Toulon too close together, and both got stalled for a month waiting for troops to make it on the beach. My poor cargo planes were flying divisions from England to France, and you can only do a few of those a turn. You could set it back, but invasions are hard enough to pull off now against a good player, much less if it was costing double transports to do it. Maybe the allies couldn't pull that off, but this is a game and I kinda like what-if's. The main thing is that you really have to understand the logistics of invasions before your going to be competent at it. A determined axis or AI will bounce you off the beaches even late in the game.

< Message edited by meklore61 -- 1/14/2015 4:42:16 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 6
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 3:51:15 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Joel, my concern with it is that if I ONLY landed with four or so like historically, they would be literally wiped off the beaches in one turn. It just seems that even with level 9 interdiction and no rail head, the AI is getting a ludicrous amount of stuff to the beach head and able to hammer away. Ill take some time away for a bit and send a bunch of saves.



_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 7
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 4:43:28 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		5 seems to be the magic number for me. Enough lift left to get troops across, and enough beaches to supply everyone.

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 8
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 5:10:37 PM   
GrumpyMel

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Does the interface which shows troop ship capacity (when you select Naval Transport) include the ones tied up in the TF's at sea? That would be pretty confusing if it did... since a player would expect that to be a listing of FREE capacity, not stuff he couldn't use.

Mike, I did an invasion similar to yours in Brittany with all 8 naval TF's.... I pretty much expect I would have gotten pushed back into the sea too had I landed with less, given the severity and aggressiveness of the A.I.'s response. They wiped out 1 Canadian beach on the same turn it invaded and would likely have wiped out another US one on that same turn had I not dropped the 101st Abn right behind it and had the para's do an absolutely stalwart job of holding off an SS Panzer Division (along with something else) all on their own. The following couple turns were pretty rough.

The odd thing is, I kept all my Naval TF's in place... I wanted the fire support of their naval guns for the invasion beaches... and didn't really experience the same issues moving follow up troops to the beaches that you seem to... I did capture St Malo pretty quick (and undamaged) and now just grabbed another port... so maybe that helped relieve the supply pressure from the transports...as I assume cargo ships can be used to transport supplies directly to the ports... but I haven't noticed any bottle-neck in getting follow up troops to the beach-head. Just a lack of space on the U.S. beach-head which is getting better....I'm pretty carefull to make sure the troops have enough room to retreat without getting pushed into the sea....and now a lack of follow-up troops to put on the British-Canadian beach-head. I did make it a priority to grab the ports in the area ASAP, so maybe that helped?


< Message edited by GrumpyMel -- 1/14/2015 6:11:42 PM >

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 9
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 7:55:23 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Sending four of the TFHQ relieved some of the boat pressure apparently as I was able to ship two armored divs over. But still seemingly low level of transport ability. Where I could ship 16 divisions during the invasion, why can I only ship two with half the tfhqs back at base?

Im ok with a reason, just not understanding how the shipping of troops works after an invasion.

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to GrumpyMel)
Post #: 10
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 10:13:27 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1688
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline 		I'd like to hear the official version too.

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 11
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/14/2015 10:17:44 PM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Where are you loading the divisions from?

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 12
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/15/2015 1:12:43 AM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		A port.....

hehe...sorry..

In England. Level five or six ports. Like, forty miles from the invasion beach...

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 13
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/15/2015 1:16:12 AM   
Baelfiin


Posts: 2978
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		What I was trying to figure out is if you are trying to load everything from the same port or different ones 8)

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 14
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/15/2015 1:40:13 AM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Oh..gotcha. Excellent question. I got that part figured out. This is a literal NO SHIPS available situation apparently.

Now that half the TFHQs are back in english ports, the troop ships are flowing again. Was able to move four armor, 2 hq and 2 cav grps this turn. So it appears that having them chilling at the invasion beachs is "tying up" the landing craft and troop ships. This is note to self moment to make sure one or two tfhqs can handle all the invasion beaches for support purposes.

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 15
RE: Unable to transport more troops after invasion - 1/15/2015 2:31:13 AM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		So...I am dumb.... and 2by3 are super smart...hehe..

When you click the naval move button, it shows a T:number and C:number for how many troop ships and cargo ships you have available.... Awesome....

Anyone know the number of "troops load value" each troop ship can carry? So I can reverse the math and figure out how many troop ships each unit takes...

_____________________________

"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to ratprince)
Post #: 16
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