How do you handle the AI horde?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> How do you handle the AI horde?

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How do you handle the AI horde? - 1/19/2015 8:11:49 PM

Devast8or

Posts: 74
Joined: 4/16/2001
Status: offline

Hi

I'm running my first game ever and I chose to play as the Axis in the Operation Blau scenario.
Since this is my first game I tried to focus on maneuver rather than objectives in order to get the feel for the game.
For the first 5-6 turns things were progressing fine with me penetrating the line attempting to create pockets and the AI responding by withdrawing and building new lines. Around turn 6 I realized that the AI had established a new defensive line along a river, the line was created with depth of 3 units in some places.

I took a turn to re-organize and regroup, my plan was to gather the panzers I had left (many had been withdrawn at this point) and strike in the north and south in order to create two pincers that would meet in Stalingrad. By doing this I hoped that the AI would either withdraw the horde east or face encirclement of large proportions.

I managed to penetrate in the north as you can see but my spearhead was cut off so I had to spend a turn and re-establish supply again. It was a close call but I managed (kudos to the AI). Anyway it's in the south that I'm struggling, so far I've been able to advance 2-3 hexes in 2 turns. After the latest recon run I could see that Soviets have A LOT of units defending along the entire line so it was quite demoralizing. My questions is how do you deal with this type of defense? I'm on turn 11 (Sept 05 1942) which is roughly one week before the Germans entered Stalingrad historically so in best of circumstances I'm roughly a turn late but given the layout of the Soviet defense I wonder if I'll ever get there. It feels like their massive buildup could break me something that did happen but in 2.5 months which would roughly be in 10 turns from now on....

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RE: How do you handle the AI horde? - 1/20/2015 12:18:36 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Well historically the Russians actually attacked in this area in May '42 which disrupted the German attack plans for a few months. The actual drive on Stalingrad did not get started until June iirc. Needless to say the Russians lost a lot of men doing that so made the actual Case Bleu even better than planned.

As you do not have the Russians doing stupid things like that you have more of an intact force to deal with. So you really cannot use the historical progress as a yardstick as to how you are doing in the game.

What I would have done is move all the mobile forces to where you broke through and use them to either circle North and cut off the troops at the top of the map or just piles everything through and head South. Once the troops start falling back, they will no longer be in forts so will be much easier to attack. Attacking headlong into fortified lines is not going to get you very far as the Germans found out a year latter at Kursk.

(in reply to Devast8or)

Post #: 2

RE: How do you handle the AI horde? - 1/20/2015 2:41:06 AM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline

Short answer is to retire the Blau.

Cut your teeth on Road to Leningrad to get a feel for attack dynamics.
Learning how to do 'grand pockets' is best done, for the new player, in 1941 as axis.
The 1942 phase of the war is problematic because of the horde. My 'learned' advice is that Road to Leningrad teaches 'set-piece attacks' very well, and the first 3 turns are good teachers for breakthrough attacks and encirclements.
You can also try to achieve the dreaded "Lake Ilmen Right Hook" that swings around the southeast side of that lake, and races up to take Lodynoe Pole and completely encircle and isolate Leningrad.

If you feel strongly about a grand campaign, the 1941 is where I would recommend you start.
Dealing with a 'horde' requires a very solid understanding of how to allocate Support Unit resources, HQ leaders, and high-morale infantry divisions.

_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 3

RE: How do you handle the AI horde? - 1/20/2015 9:03:26 AM

Devast8or

Posts: 74
Joined: 4/16/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well historically the Russians actually attacked in this area in May '42 which disrupted the German attack plans for a few months. The actual drive on Stalingrad did not get started until June iirc. Needless to say the Russians lost a lot of men doing that so made the actual Case Bleu even better than planned.

As you do not have the Russians doing stupid things like that you have more of an intact force to deal with. So you really cannot use the historical progress as a yardstick as to how you are doing in the game.

What I would have done is move all the mobile forces to where you broke through and use them to either circle North and cut off the troops at the top of the map or just piles everything through and head South. Once the troops start falling back, they will no longer be in forts so will be much easier to attack. Attacking headlong into fortified lines is not going to get you very far as the Germans found out a year latter at Kursk.

Well that explains a lot. With all the Soviet forces in front of me it feels like the historical achievement is far off. As I mentioned I got stripped off a lot of my Panzers few turns ago so my mobile capacity has suffered a lot. All I got in return are some Romanian and Italian divisions, none of them are useful for more than guarding hexes which at least feels historical. :)

The Germans were historically deep down in Caucasus and I still haven't conquered Rostov on Don, not that I've really made any attempt either. I'm trying right now but all I have are Romanian divisions supported by 2 German Inf Divisions. That's really all I can spare given the fact that my main objective is to reach Stalingrad before mud and snow hits the ground.

I think I'll follow your suggestion and move my Panzers from the south along with the Mnt Divisions and attempt to solidify my breakthrough in the north. I'm not sure which way I'll go but south does seem tempting to me. Hopefully that will move the horde east across the Volga at least partially.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 4

RE: How do you handle the AI horde? - 1/20/2015 9:08:48 AM

Devast8or

Posts: 74
Joined: 4/16/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Short answer is to retire the Blau.

Cut your teeth on Road to Leningrad to get a feel for attack dynamics.
Learning how to do 'grand pockets' is best done, for the new player, in 1941 as axis.
The 1942 phase of the war is problematic because of the horde. My 'learned' advice is that Road to Leningrad teaches 'set-piece attacks' very well, and the first 3 turns are good teachers for breakthrough attacks and encirclements.
You can also try to achieve the dreaded "Lake Ilmen Right Hook" that swings around the southeast side of that lake, and races up to take Lodynoe Pole and completely encircle and isolate Leningrad.

If you feel strongly about a grand campaign, the 1941 is where I would recommend you start.
Dealing with a 'horde' requires a very solid understanding of how to allocate Support Unit resources, HQ leaders, and high-morale infantry divisions.

You are correct, I should have picked one of the 1941 Road to Scenarios. I did use Road to Leningrad as a learning scenario when I followed a tutorial but I abandoned it when I was finished with the tutorial. Op Blau felt right at the time. I'll go back to Road to Leningrad and then Road to Moscow before I attempt to play any other scenario. I'll just give it one more chance to see if I can push my way through to Stalingrad. The grand campaign still feels to complex to tackle.

(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 5